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Old 30-01-2006, 02:40 PM   #21
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Just to add a little more to the discussion - as I have big interest in the topic as
- I race and want the best protection
- I'm a member of the Technical and Safety working group (RYA)
- I also sell Roof helmets through K4+

This is a reply from the UK importers for the helmets, in response to my recent discussions with them. Hope it helps.

Adam

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


All Roof helmets have full ECE R22-05 approval

This in effect means they are motorcycle helmets which are road legal throughout Europe

The Roof Diversion and Daytona full-face helmets that you have been buying also have ACU Gold approval (Auto Cycle Union)

This means they are also approved for use in motorcycle racing in the UK.

If you have any input to the debate I would steer them away from any insistence on BS6658

Very few manufacturers bother submitting helmets to the British Standards Institute for testing these days as there is no legal requirement for helmets to meet their standards for road use. In fact none of the manufacturers that we stock bother with BSI testing. If they insist on BSI they will make it extremely difficult for competitors to find a suitable helmet and their choice will be very limited.
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Old 30-01-2006, 03:02 PM   #22
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Exactly Adam.
At the end of the day the powers that control standards and I’m not getting at the RYA here have let this situation develop. There are a number of different standards but of the same value
Snell, BS, EU ect ect ect. Depending on the application. All suitable for the designated purpose.
I just there is this daft situation where you could be wearing a top of the range, certified to survive a tactical nuclear attack helmet .
You end up busted or excluded coz you didn’t have a BS sticker.
Bloody daft state of affairs.
Why should it have a BS if its a Snell, EU or alternate approved item.
As long as something has an equiliant statement and or standard I don’t see why it would be unacceptable IMHO.
But Simon has clarified this statement already.
I’m sure a buff could confirm but am I correct it assuming all the current F1 Helmets are not suitable for road use, what the f**** Oh they don’t have a sticker. MMMHHHHHH !!!!
I know which one I’d put on if I was going out in a race car It wouldn’t be the one with the BS sticker sold in Halfords for £12.99


Edit: My Ref to Roof was an older lid that is now superseeded I have discovered. It was EU & Snell top rated but no BS and was for race use. Exceeded all BS standards just no sticker

Thank you for Correcting Adam and Clarifying that point. I wasnt detracting from anything you supply.
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Old 30-01-2006, 03:18 PM   #23
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I'm very Worried

As lifted from the web site

The text of this Internet version of the Statutory Instrument which is published by the Queen's Printer of Acts of Parliament has been prepared to reflect the text as it was Made. A print version is also available and is published by The Stationery Office Limited as the The Motor Cycles (Protective Helmets) Regulations 1998 , ISBN 0 11 079337 4. The print version may be purchased by clicking here. Braille copies of this Statutory Instrument can also be purchased at the same price as the print edition by contacting TSO Customer Services on 0870 600 5522 or e-mail:customer.services@tso.co.uk.

did you pick up on the bit "Braille copies" what the .....

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Old 30-01-2006, 03:23 PM   #24
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Would racers who are Sikh and wearing a turban be exempt this rule ????
Dont ya love minefields dunno where ya gonna step next !!!!!
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Old 30-01-2006, 03:41 PM   #25
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I just knew that this would open the proverbial can.
The bottom line is be sensible with your helmet if it has an equivalent standard to BS6658, and you can prove it , you can race, if you can't prove it to the satisfaction of the scrute you will be left on the dock .
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Old 30-01-2006, 07:29 PM   #26
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Question

Adam.

I've read the comments above, and all is still not clear!
As a member of the Technical and Safety working group (RYA) can you please let it be known if an HJC (flip front) helmet with a black sticker (on the rear) "ECE R 22-05" will be accepted by scrutineers. It has no gold lines/boxs & the like anywhere.
I read that BS6658 is the criteria, but that ECE R 22-05 is above this! Is this correct?

I realise mate, your not here to answer individual questions, but if you can point to a page/rule or any definitive, it may sort this out for all.

PS. I started this an hour or so ago but have had many interruptions, so my questions may (by now) have been answered.

Well I guess not!
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Old 30-01-2006, 07:36 PM   #27
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IT WOULD BE VERY HELPFUL IF YOU COULD POST THE RULES AS OF THE RYA AS I THINK THIS IS A VERY IMPORTANT ISSUE AND US SKI RACERS SHOULD ALSO BE FOLLOWING THE SAME GUIDELINES,AS YOURSELFS WE HAVE A MEETING ON THE 9TH OF FEB SO COULD TRY AND GET IT PASSED FOR THIS YEAR.
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Old 30-01-2006, 07:41 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally posted by MIKE HUNT
IT WOULD BE VERY HELPFUL IF YOU COULD POST THE RULES AS OF THE RYA AS I THINK THIS IS A VERY IMPORTANT ISSUE AND US SKI RACERS SHOULD ALSO BE FOLLOWING THE SAME GUIDELINES,AS YOURSELFS WE HAVE A MEETING ON THE 9TH OF FEB SO COULD TRY AND GET IT PASSED FOR THIS YEAR.
Nunno mate if they're on the RYA website?
Then again, does the RYA know if they're on their website!
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Old 30-01-2006, 07:57 PM   #29
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here's the official wording if that helps.
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Old 30-01-2006, 08:15 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally posted by Wayne Kerr
Adam.

I've read the comments above, and all is still not clear!
As a member of the Technical and Safety working group (RYA) can you please let it be known if an HJC (flip front) helmet with a black sticker (on the rear) "ECE R 22-05" will be accepted by scrutineers. It has no gold lines/boxs & the like anywhere.
I read that BS6658 is the criteria, but that ECE R 22-05 is above this! Is this correct?

I realise mate, your not here to answer individual questions, but if you can point to a page/rule or any definitive, it may sort this out for all.

PS. I started this an hour or so ago but have had many interruptions, so my questions may (by now) have been answered.

Well I guess not!

Gold boxes have nothing to do with BS its Purley an ACU (Auto Cycle Union) Thing. They had a shift in the last two years on the standard. The difference between the two is one has a single gold band the other a Double.
Perhas is confusing but I was only trying to highlight the differences of the two types and which is the higher stanadrd with regards to motorsport, both should be BS standard It's just differences.

It is rotten as I looked a several sites today and two differing govt sites said two differing things
From what you say about the sticker seems fine as that is an acceptable Approval standard but I aint doing the scruteering ???


With regard to the printed copy of PB1
That went to print yonks ago and Simons comments would seem to superseed it - Remember Saftey matters can be implimeted with immidiate effect with no or minimium notice.

Very much a jean Luc Picard " MAKE IT SO"
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Old 30-01-2006, 08:30 PM   #31
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BS Standard Good But Not for Landbased Moror SPort Notice the Large Single Band
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Old 30-01-2006, 08:34 PM   #32
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Now Notice The same BS Standard But the More for want of a better term "up to date Race standard" Gold Sticker is no longer one thick band but two thinner singles.
This is the latest ACU gold STANDARD for Bike Racing

It caused a great deal of "Disscussion" at bike races I can assure you


This is fek all do do with powerboats and the RYA as both are the same BS -

See clear as MUD
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Old 30-01-2006, 08:35 PM   #33
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Last one was a bit blured
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Old 30-01-2006, 08:44 PM   #34
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Well if I wasn't confused before, I'm sure as shite now!
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Old 30-01-2006, 08:50 PM   #35
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The standard you quoted is an Equivalent Standard to BS I dont forsee a problem.
I had a look on the web site and they seems very nice & well up to spec
http://www.hjchelmets.com/

Please dont say you have the candy red CS-2 (looks really nobby - but meets standard) Just re read the post and you dont have that one -good
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Old 30-01-2006, 09:21 PM   #36
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Without getting into too much Tech waffle it would be nice if the BS standard was qualified as a
Type A
Type B
As there are two types in the standard.


This consise text lifted from the web is a good summary

All road legal motorcycle helmets sold in the UK must conform to ECE 22-05 or the older British Standard 6658 (categorised as Type A (blue label) or Type B (green label). These stickers are normally located on the back of the helmet and will also include a batch identity number. ECE 22-05 helmets are tested by BSI, and have the BSI Kitemark on the label. If it doesn't have a sticker or kitemark, don't buy it, it may be an import and will not be legal on British roads. A recent article suggested that most Traffic Police were not interested in the safety stamp, providing the helmet was a recognisable brand and model. However, this may change in the future.
The BSI 6658 and ECE 22-05 standards are among the toughest tests for motorcycle helmets in the world. They are generally accepted to be better than the American DOT and older European CE standards, although they are broadly equivalent to the SNELL M2000 standard. These standards don't just test new helmet designs, but mandate testing of a %age of all batches manufactured (typically around 1%) with ongoing continuous inspection and recertification. All this helps to reduce the risk to you in the event of an accident.

Your helmet may also have an Auto-Cycling Union (ACU) gold or silver badge. The ACU is the governing body of motorcycle sport throughout the British Isles, excluding Ireland. ACU accreditation is different from the BSI standards, however they typically match the standard, with ACU gold going to most BS6658 Type A helmets and Silver to Type Bs. The price of a type B will range from between about £40 to £100, while a Type A will start at around £70 to over £400. Always try to go for a type A/gold if you can afford it, as it will give better protection and should last longer. You will also be allowed to use it on a track day if you wish.

While it is not a legal requirement to have a visor, if one is fitted it must comply with the BS 4110 ZA or YA test standards. These standards define impact and scratch resistance as well as tint. Blacked out visors are not road legal as is any visor not marked with the BS stamp.

As I said it all on the web
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Old 30-01-2006, 10:15 PM   #37
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You're over complicating it.

Is it BS6658 certified. If Yes, pass go pickup up £100

If No - Does it meet a standard that demonstrably exceeds BS6658 (as Pennpromo's posts). If yes, pass go, pickup up £100.

If no, go to jail, do not pass go, do no pick up 100 pounds.

I honestly can't see what the fuss is about.

Beyond that, there's a million different subcategories, but they're not relevant WRT to eligibility and are down to personal choice.
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Old 31-01-2006, 12:15 AM   #38
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So where is the list of standards that are equal to or better than the appropriate BS standard?
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Old 31-01-2006, 12:34 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally posted by Matt
You're over complicating it.

Is it BS6658 certified. If Yes, pass go pickup up £100

If No - Does it meet a standard that demonstrably exceeds BS6658 (as Pennpromo's posts). If yes, pass go, pickup up £100.

If no, go to jail, do not pass go, do no pick up 100 pounds.

I honestly can't see what the fuss is about.

Beyond that, there's a million different subcategories, but they're not relevant WRT to eligibility and are down to personal choice.
Matt, you have looked at the situation and made sense of it. With the greatest respect, will the scrutineers see this as clearly as you do?
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Old 31-01-2006, 05:34 AM   #40
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Its not complex it simple.

It just that there are various bodies / groups all with different numbers that all mean the same thing.

beats me why there just cant be one

Its not just crash helmets.............. it happens with everything

whish I never mentioned the damm thing
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