Honda 2010 ????

[dowdy]

Was it a Honda ballon by any chance?

[Scream-it.com]

Originally Posted by dowdy

Was it a Honda ballon by any chance?

Do you know I believe it was...I wonder if the saddle on the basket or the mounts went and the poor sod after driving all those bikes and cars (oh and a 225 boat) plummetted to the ground to his termination and is now pushing up daisies?

For Sale 1 honda 225 Egnine

Silver in colour with black dolphin emblems
1 careful owner
Not suitable as a plant pot holder
Gearbox nearly stolen in Plymouth - so self secure!

Contact:

Davy Jones
The Locker
or visit my website: www.whataballsup.com!

[cider daze]

Here we go again start knocking Honda again,10 years they have been a major sponsor of powerboat racing in this country, built the largest fleet of boats to race,and you knock them and there product,any big sponsor reading this would think twice about surporting powerboat racing,luckly not everyone is like you and nearly every team that has raced Honda over the last 10 years has had a good time and enjoyed being part of a large brand name like Honda,yes things break but thats racing,I for one will miss Honda.

[dowdy]

I aint knockin Honda itself,neither is Scream It,to me it was a brilliant piece of PR and advertising,a real masterpiece and i take my hat off to the honda spin wizards who put it together,my beef is with the 225 engine itself,engine mounts,limp mode kickin in,do i need to mention any more and the fact that you lot had to fork out a small fortune to finance their promotion,you all put your hands in your pocket and were then hung out to dry,i can see where Scream It is coming from. Now,going on to something more satisifying,i have been touting it round slowly but surely,your little snipe at me has brought it off the back burner,it was going to be a phantom owners club race only,now it will be an open invitation powerboat race,a basic,day license only,any boat can turn up and have a go,there will be cash start line money,finish line money and cash prize money for 1st,2nd, and 3rd in all the relevant classes,i have access to a 7 acre field,adjacent to the beach at phwellei,you can all camp out there,marquee,bar,disco and two days of racing,my plan is to reinstate the WELSH 100,my initial financing will be generated by holding a two day boat jumble/car boot plus a two day NORTH WALES BOAT SHOW on the site,the exhibitors will pay for their pitch,the entrants will pay 3quid or whatever to get in,my daughter will start doggin sponsors/advertisers etc.,the whole package will self finance and give you the racers,cash back,which ,to me is the way it should be.I am even prepared to talk to PER LINDSRAND (bransons mate) to see if its feasible for him to moor 7 of his hot air balloons on every turn bouy (with advertising banners pre sold all over them)we would then have full aerial coverage of the whole race,video sales,merchandise,allmoney generated goes into the prize fund,i dont want a brass yarrop for organising it,i would do it just for the crack and to see the smile on your face when you get your dosh.Would you and anybody else like to help me?

[dowdy]

P.S.Would Boatmad.com like to sponsor the beer tent?

[HIM]

I find it quite incredible that there should be so much moaning and very little doing from the racers themselves....they have been spoilt for too long.
May I offer support for Brian in that he came to the series with no previous and with no support. All the original documentation had been removed from the office. i think he has done a great job from a standing start. I doubt if any of the whingers would work for the fee that he gets from the series....a lot less than previous encumbents.

I look forward to hearing how easy it will be to generate funds for the series....dont understand the comments regarding Mayor of Lowetoft and Andy Musgrave....not sure he gave F4SA any money according to my info!!

The best venues were let down by racers not wishing to return is the story I heard. But then so much of the info on the series is gossip and hidden agendas. Long live the series in whatever guise. Pull together and it will be good again but keep bitching and no one will want to be part of it both racers and organisers. Such a shame that so much string pulling and back biting is killing the series.

[dowdy]

Andy was the original instigator in bringing the race to phwellei,even bought a boat so he could join in,half a dozen more like him you would have your new series,any input from you southern guys?Do you want a new sreies or what?I can do Blackpool and Phwellei,will gladly help with any other venue.

[Scream-it.com]

Originally Posted by cider daze

Here we go again start knocking Honda again,10 years they have been a major sponsor of powerboat racing in this country, built the largest fleet of boats to race,and you knock them and there product,any big sponsor reading this would think twice about surporting powerboat racing,luckly not everyone is like you and nearly every team that has raced Honda over the last 10 years has had a good time and enjoyed being part of a large brand name like Honda,yes things break but thats racing,I for one will miss Honda.

WAS WAS WAS!!

You cannot look back, you cannot wait for the rainbow and the pot of gold to appear again. It has gone. Sponsors will support anything that has traffic. This now does not.

From the briefing I saw at Honda HQ Nov 2007:

£460,000 in 2008
200,000 for 2009

Plus in 2008 event fees from Liverpool, Isle of Man and Lowestoft (Maybe Torquay?)

Plus around I would estimate 60-70,000 in entry fees (nearly 40 boats)


Now there isn't a person in the World around here that couldn't run a 5 weekend series on that sort of money is there? Even on 200K with no TV

take out the budget 120,000 for TV and helicopter

WAS WAS WAS my old friend!

Support the teams as F4SA hasn't got a clue how to run a successful series without the glorious budgets they have enjoyed. Good luck to Steve and I hope he pulls a rabbit out of the hat with his excitiing announcement - perhaps then somebody may like to buy one of the fastest 225 boats in the fleet! but I am not holding my breath.

The World's Largest Offshore Powerboat series is in serious decline and all you seem to want to do is support the organisation(s) that has/have killed it.

Honda had the resources but without their warranty support many of the 225 owners are too afraid of the almost predictable damage to mounts and saddles.

Left high and dry but as expected when they have had to make such cuts to their business. BUT my gripe is simply they handed over the running and the budgets which gave F4SA a fantastic investment and all we have is a declining series especially in 225, politics about engine cheats and toys being thrown out of the pram and people being made to run again in dreadful conditions (that creates work though ddoesn't it?)

So Let the debate continue:

I VOTE FOR "FOUR NATIONS OFFSHORE"

LET THE TEAMS OWN AND MANAGE THE SERIES AND LET THE BOAT OWNERS HAVE SOME STAKE IN THEIR FUTURE AND SOME SAY ABOUT HOW THINGS ARE MANAGED!!

[Scream-it.com]

Originally Posted by HIM

I find it quite incredible that there should be so much moaning and very little doing from the racers themselves....they have been spoilt for too long.
May I offer support for Brian in that he came to the series with no previous and with no support. All the original documentation had been removed from the office. i think he has done a great job from a standing start. I doubt if any of the whingers would work for the fee that he gets from the series....a lot less than previous encumbents.

I look forward to hearing how easy it will be to generate funds for the series....dont understand the comments regarding Mayor of Lowetoft and Andy Musgrave....not sure he gave F4SA any money according to my info!!

The best venues were let down by racers not wishing to return is the story I heard. But then so much of the info on the series is gossip and hidden agendas. Long live the series in whatever guise. Pull together and it will be good again but keep bitching and no one will want to be part of it both racers and organisers. Such a shame that so much string pulling and back biting is killing the series.

Oh I see he gets paid does he?

"The best venues were let down by racers not wishing to return"

Now I have read it all - the F4SA jackanory storyline through the back door...or was it the square window? Jeepers blame the race teams. Blame the people that have spent thier own money why don't you and favour those that benefit from it!!!!!



Perhaps the paid members should spare a thought for people like me who have NOT been paid and have INVESTED heavily in it before he they hacked us off with his damned arrogance and inaccuracies.

To be told that 50K was lost somewhere in an awards bash? that volunteers costs were out of control....? That 1000s were overspent booking flights to the Isle of Man too late???


A 50K hole in the finances of F4SA was briefed at the AGM and we are expected to cough up and fill it?

Give me a break for heavens sake!

Oh and let's go back to kicking the ex staff shall we and not shoulder any of the responsibility of the last two years???

Since Karen, Rory and Debs left, the series has declined and every team knows it. The spirit was ripped out of it to be raplaced with a non-customer focused operation run in military fashion and style most normally used in the Royal Bloody Navy - well that doesn't wash in the real world I'm afraid cos there are more successful people around who don't take orders from bloody Commanders!

THAT'S WHY I DIDN'T ENTER AND THAT'S WHY THE RYA HASN'T HAD 700 FROM ME THIS YEAR! Out of principle along with other teams who have mothballed their boats.

[Curetos]

Hey Richard, Wait till you have to start rebuilding those Sportmaster gearboxes, 225 engine mounts are going to feel like pocketchange

[Marinautic]

Originally Posted by Curetos

Hey Richard, Wait till you have to start rebuilding those Sportmaster gearboxes, 225 engine mounts are going to feel like pocketchange

Not necessarily, you just need to bring it to the right place!

[HIM]

Too many comments without all the information again.
Without workers like Brian (incidently on less pay than all previous encumbents) the series would not have survived. When the original staff jumped ship Steve begged Brian to run the series...who else would have taken on the job??

I did not say it was all down to the racers, I made the point that venues are difficult to come by and councils no longer have money for "boys toys" type of events. I look forward to 2010 and the new order incidently demanding
12 1/2% of any sponsorship raised.....good little earner if figures are to be believed!!

If everyone pulled in the same direction and worked together instead of building personal empires then I am sure we could get back to the good times, not neccessarily the good OLD days.

[Scream-it.com]

Originally Posted by HIM

Too many comments without all the information again.
Without workers like Brian (incidently on less pay than all previous encumbents) the series would not have survived. When the original staff jumped ship Steve begged Brian to run the series...who else would have taken on the job??

I did not say it was all down to the racers, I made the point that venues are difficult to come by and councils no longer have money for "boys toys" type of events. I look forward to 2010 and the new order incidently demanding
12 1/2% of any sponsorship raised.....good little earner if figures are to be believed!!

If everyone pulled in the same direction and worked together instead of building personal empires then I am sure we could get back to the good times, not neccessarily the good OLD days.

OK Who got the venues?

Who secured the paying venues in the first place?

One thing I have learnt in business is it pays to pay. When people before were getting paid they got results did they not?

If nobody was getting paid much then tell me where all that money went if you are so in the know!!!

Go and use your persuasion to extract two years of management accounts out of F4SA Ltd

You have about as much chance as finding the Holy Grail!

If you do get them why not in the spirit of openness publish them here and let us all have a chance to see the real truth!

Tony Crossley's initiative backed by several teams is designed to do just that so that perhaps the empire may be shared and not owned by 1 PERSON as it is now. He is NOT empire building he is merely trying to, in my view, to do exactly what you are saying by trying to get people to pull together to find a series sponsor. If he or his contacts (or if you read the document, anyone brings a series sponsor) then of course they should be rewarded.

Honda announced their departure in November 2007 (I WAS THERE I SAW THE PRESENTATION AND FIGURES) and they have provided F4SA for 2 years with enough revenue and time to get a replacement sponsor and all they have done is squander and mis-manage.

I challenge anyone out there to provide any facts to dispute what I say. If they do I will apologise publicly.

So let's stop the rot and start afresh with a new organisation and work with the rest of the organisations. OCR and ORDA will welcome the Honda teams and Honda should welcome them at the new events they are planning.

But either way like I said F4SA should either give clear direction and encourage teams back instead of closng the door: "If you don't pay by the 31st March you don't race!" I QUOTE BRIAN'S WORDS AT THE AGM

Can you imagine what would happen if Chairman Bob or the ORDA guys said that to their teams in advance of the season?


Christ! it's no wonder that people like me and Dave Baker were speechless and stayed away in protest for that attitude and no reduction in entry fees despite lower budgets and no TV etc etc

So I agree about pulling together and that will take new blood I'm afraid.

As long as this regime (which is the best word for them) is in place I and other teams will refuse to race and just await the change and applaud Tony's efforts even though he probably wouldn't want me as his ally in his current quest to rescue the series (particularly the 225s) from the Abyss!

[Scream-it.com]

Originally Posted by Curetos

Hey Richard, Wait till you have to start rebuilding those Sportmaster gearboxes, 225 engine mounts are going to feel like pocketchange

But as you know my friend there is the possibility of getting paid in Xcat - that's if my thottleman and Gibraltarian colleague can see over the dashboard!!

[HIM]

A short response.

I am aware who chased and achieved the original venues and the funding from the councils as I am sure you are. Most of the venues do not have the funds now. The better venues unfortunately can no longer justify the outlay. The funding went on hotels , volunteers expenses, cranes, safety cover etc. The monies taken for the paid staff has in recent times been a very small part of any income. The cost of running the series has always been high in comparison to other clubs by the very nature of the series.

I am not aware of any payments made to those who generated sponsorship in the early days. If you know differnt to that please share the knowledge with us all.

Any statement made by Brian would have been at the request of the series director he is not the man to make the statements you clain on his own initiative. You really should give Brian more respect for the work he has done. He must be very disappointed to be slagged off without reason and by people who do not do it to his face.

I hope all works out for the series and any new initiative....it deserves to survive. If that means dumping all the current encumbents in the organisation I am sure they will be disappointed but life will no doubt go on for them all.

I am now ending my defence of the current team and hope to continue with my involvement in the sport.

[cider daze]

Rich, your using this site as your soap box again,move on go race your cat,you had a good offer on your 225 and decided to keep it so race it , all this bitching wont help anyone we have heard it all before, move on

[HIM]

Well said Cider Daze. Lets pull together .....all of us!!

[cooolaii]

oii Rich

Originally Posted by Scream-it.com

But as you know my friend there is the possibility of getting paid in Xcat - that's if my thottleman and Gibraltarian colleague can see over the dashboard!!

[225]

Originally Posted by HIM

You really should give Brian more respect for the work he has done. He must be very disappointed to be slagged off without reason and by people who do not do it to his face.

When he joined the series it was the worlds largest offshore series, now look where it is. He's getting paid to do his job, so he should be doing the job correctly otherwise there is no point employing him.

[Scream-it.com]

Originally Posted by HIM

Well said Cider Daze. Lets pull together .....all of us!!

I agree with you too AG (?) as I suspect you are - the style of writing and memories of pre Isle of Man come back - to a great diplomat and well respected figure who I would not, personally associate with the mess I mentioned above!

Dave, stop supporting Tony one minute in open meeting and next minute telling him where to go! You told him to set the company up in June and now you are acusing people of building empires and being divisive and standing on soap boxes etc. Stop chaging your mind and pull together because you are not sure which horse to back!

I know that several people have now committed to Four Nations Offshore as I rang to check - several have indeed sent in their cheques - so stop winging at me and get yer cheque book out to secure your team's ownership of the series. If Steve makes a great announcement I am sure the teams will work with him!

I just want to make sure that my boat only goes for 20K when it should eh?

As for Brian, just like me I tend to fire the bullets that I don't only load myself but - I think most would agree he is not the best person to build relationships with teams eh? As an OOD I understand from commisioner he is doing well - that's his good job but delivering Steve's bad news is probably not sensible.

The series has suffered from too much part-timeism despite enough funding for full time activity which is puzzling:

If you work it out I reckon in 2008 F4SA had in excess 120,000 per event in one shape or form. Take out 25K for copter and TV...how did they end up with a 50K hole?
Go on! Give Four Nations Offshore the chance, give them a copy of the F4SA accounts to assist their planning. Why would they be kept secret from the teams if such losses were made as there wasn't enough to run the series? It would demonstrate this and shut some of us up! But more importantly it will help The Four Nations team develop the series which will be in the interest of all and the sport to get it right would it not? They could learn from analysis of the costs.

But my old friend if you can magic that one out of the hat I would be extremely proud of your diplomatic powers!

SOAPBOX DAVE?

Isn't that what a forum is? A place to express your views? If you don't like it you can switch the browser off you know.

This is a serious debate as teams have spent millions and you have to open your eyes to the reality of the situation. F4SA is very part-time. The series director is very busy I suspect after Norway and is heavily involved as we know in things Class 1. How can the organisation possibly rebuild the series? They have proved quite the opposite to date despite excellent funding.

The teams have a lot to give in terms of skills and knowledge and are bound to be more motivated if they have some say in the future of the series

FOUR NATIONS OFFSHORE:

Vote not with your tongue
Vote with your feet
Vote for Four Nations
Next time they meet!