HONDA AGM - Minutes

[Scream-it.com]

F4SA AGM 2009 – Meeting Notes

The 2009 F4SA Annual General Meeting was held at the Solent Hotel, Whiteley, Hampshire on Saturday 28th March commencing at 11:00. The following is a summary of the issues raised.

Apologies for non-attendance

Steve Curtis
Alan Goodwin
Ray Bulman
Julie Jackson
Martin Campbell
David Hobson
Construction Racing
Team Fox Jersey
John Wilson

Attending

F4SA Personnel:

Brian Wheeler (BW) Race Co-ordinator - Meeting Chairman
Abi James (AJ) PR & Marketing
Irene Sheffield (IS) Financial Controller

Solent Honda:

Pete Currington
John Donnelly
Gary Hunt
Andy Kercher

Volunteers:

Eight in number.

Competitors:

Twenty-seven in number


Meeting Summary

Opening Address:

BW opened the meeting by stating that the objective of the AGM was to re-assure competitors that there would be a race series in 2009 and that five venues had been confirmed. There were problems with the budget in that the main sponsor Honda had significantly reduced their input from that promised last year. That coupled with an overspend of the budget last year has left much depleted resources for 2009. However, negotiations with the venues to reduce costs and reducing the number of volunteers this year has meant that the series is viable but TV cover will not be possible at any of the venues. Whilst sponsorship to retain TV cover is still being sought, realistically this is unlikely to be found within the timescale available and competitors were warned that they must not join the series assuming TV cover will happen.

David Baker (competitor) wished to know why this year’s entrance fee was effectively more than 2008 as he felt last year that fee included TV cover. BW pointed out that this year’s entrance fee was actually £50 less than 2008, as it no longer included membership of UKOBA. Honda covered TV sponsorship in 2008 and that was not available in 2009. A further reduction in entry fees was not possible as the budget had been calculated on an assumed number of entries and these fees will be essential to cover costs.

Both Richard George (competitor) and David Baker asked why there was a deficit last year and what size was it. IS commented in her reply that the overspend was in the region of £50k and was due to lack of support for expensive hospitality (which had to be paid for) and similarly a large loss at the end of year presentation which again was not well supported but still needed to be funded. Richard & David complained that without the usual TV cover they might just as well move away from Honda and go club racing. BW commented that was their choice. They were also concerned that if they paid their entrance fees and the series became financially unsound they would lose their investment as well as the opportunity to complete a full championship. BW stated that this will not happen and IS added that Cougar would underwrite the series in the unlikely event that the current tight budgetary control measures were to fail.

Rose Lores (competitor and Honda employee) claimed that in her meetings with Honda Management it had been stated that 2008 overspend would be settled by Honda so that this year’s sponsorship would not have to cover last year’s debts. IS replied that this had not been the case and Rose commented that she would investigate this issue further.

Mark Cockman (competitor) asked what the break even point would be with the number of entries required for this year to be viable. BW responded by saying that a straw poll indicated that there were 13 teams from each class likely to enter the 2009 series. The problem was not simply financial but venues had been promised around 20 boats per class and in some cases (where venues were sponsoring an event) it would be embarrassing (if not a breach of contract) if we subsequently turn up with six boats or fewer. He added that a minimum of ten boats per class would be required. Competitors were urged to pay their entry fees and commit to the series by the deadline (March 31st). IS stated that she could accept payments at the meeting. Last year entry forms had been sent out on 7th January with payment required by 28th February. This year entry forms were sent out on 19th January with payment required by 31st March (an extra 19 days!).

AJ made a plea for competitors to return their PR forms and boat pictures were always welcome along with any interesting PR stories. She added that the newsletter will start again but was very dependent on competitors forwarding contributions each month. Any input to race programmes had to be received by her by 20th April.

Race Venues:

BW listed each venue emphasising that local authorities had been very amenable this year and he and Alan Goodwin had managed to cut costs enormously this year compared to 2008. All venues were very keen to welcome us in 2009. Cowes would be interesting as on the Saturday all of the competing fleets will start together with the start boat being the Red Jet Ferry. At Hurst Narrows Honda and ORDA would peel off and complete a one circuit and two-circuit course respectively before returning to Cowes. The remainder of the fleet will carry onto Torquay. Thus Honda race boats will be the first to return to Cowes followed by ORDA and then the competitors in the Cowes Torquay classic. On the Sunday we will compete on our own in a normal circuit race.

Venue dates are:

Pwllheli 9/10 May

Plymouth 20/21 June

Lowestoft 25/26 July

Cowes 29/30 August

Isle of Man 19/20 September



Race Format & Championship Details:

BW stated that note had been taken of the requests made by competitors at the winter meetings held by Paul Plant (who was thanked in his absence for his efforts to co-ordinate competitors’ wishes for 2009). As a result the race format would return to pre 2008 with two races per day (one per class). The Championship would, therefore, be decided over ten races per class (no dropped scores allowed in 2009-by request of competitors).


Rules and Boat Specifications:

BW announced that a small working party had already met to discuss rules and specs in detail. The draft rules would be issued to competitors in the following week for comments before the final draft would be completed before the end of April.

The working group comprises: Tony Crossley, Marcus Bradshaw, Gary Payne (GP) (Chief Scrutineer), Pete Currington, Brian Wheeler and Alan Goodwin.

Much work has been done with the RYA since last season and agreement has been reached to dispense with hitherto mandatory items of kit eg compass, charts, nav lights, fog horn etc: Full list in Rules. However, this will need to be reviewed in view of the Cowes race to Poole.

GP gave a short brief on the role of scrutineers and how their task was not to prohibit people from racing but to strike a keen balance to ensure as much parity in a one-class series as was possible without being overly prescriptive. This year a comment sheet (regarding discrepancies in other boats) will be issued for completion by competitors (anonymously) if they wish, without going through a full protest procedure.

There was strong feeling from the floor that the current minimum weight limit for the 150 class should be returned to 1,100 kgms (ie from 1,120kgms). The working group will discuss this issue before a final decision can be made.

Volunteers for 2009:

A very successful meeting had been held with our long established volunteers who were very sympathetic and understanding of the needs to cut costs this year. The services of some have regrettably been suspended this year. BW stressed the need for competitors to offer any help they can at each venue.

End of season presentation:

David Hobson (competitor) had offered to work with F4SA to organise this year’s end of season party at a hotel in Windsor. This will be a much less glitzy affair than the series has witnessed in the recent past.

2010:

The series is still seeking a sponsor for the future. It seems certain that this will be the last year of Honda sponsorship. A number of initiatives are on offer and BW recommended to the meeting the Tony Crossley paper, which proposes a competitor funded way forward if a sponsorship deal is not forthcoming.

AOB:

Simon Loveridge (competitor) made the point at the end of the meeting that in all of the different types of motor racing he has participated in, F4SA was by far the cheapest and best value for money. Even Go Karting championships cost over £2k to enter for a season. By far the majority of the meeting agreed with this sentiment.

BW informed the meeting that Dave Cockman is qualifying as an OOD and will be Assistant OOD on events this year.


Finally Dave Cockman expressed his appreciation to BW for his work in ensuring that there will be a series in 2009.

The meeting concluded at 12:00

[larby]

Guess that explains the amount of people trying to sell their boats then. Must be a very difficult time for both the organisers and the racers.
Best of luck to the series and everyone involved.

James

[dowdy]

Originally Posted by Scream-it.com

F4SA AGM 2009 – Meeting Notes

The 2009 F4SA Annual General Meeting was held at the Solent Hotel, Whiteley, Hampshire on Saturday 28th March commencing at 11:00. The following is a summary of the issues raised.

Apologies for non-attendance

Steve Curtis
Alan Goodwin
Ray Bulman
Julie Jackson
Martin Campbell
David Hobson
Construction Racing
Team Fox Jersey
John Wilson

Attending

F4SA Personnel:

Brian Wheeler (BW) Race Co-ordinator - Meeting Chairman
Abi James (AJ) PR & Marketing
Irene Sheffield (IS) Financial Controller

Solent Honda:

Pete Currington
John Donnelly
Gary Hunt
Andy Kercher

Volunteers:

Eight in number.

Competitors:

Twenty-seven in number


Meeting Summary

Opening Address:

BW opened the meeting by stating that the objective of the AGM was to re-assure competitors that there would be a race series in 2009 and that five venues had been confirmed. There were problems with the budget in that the main sponsor Honda had significantly reduced their input from that promised last year. That coupled with an overspend of the budget last year has left much depleted resources for 2009. However, negotiations with the venues to reduce costs and reducing the number of volunteers this year has meant that the series is viable but TV cover will not be possible at any of the venues. Whilst sponsorship to retain TV cover is still being sought, realistically this is unlikely to be found within the timescale available and competitors were warned that they must not join the series assuming TV cover will happen.

David Baker (competitor) wished to know why this year’s entrance fee was effectively more than 2008 as he felt last year that fee included TV cover. BW pointed out that this year’s entrance fee was actually £50 less than 2008, as it no longer included membership of UKOBA. Honda covered TV sponsorship in 2008 and that was not available in 2009. A further reduction in entry fees was not possible as the budget had been calculated on an assumed number of entries and these fees will be essential to cover costs.

Both Richard George (competitor) and David Baker asked why there was a deficit last year and what size was it. IS commented in her reply that the overspend was in the region of £50k and was due to lack of support for expensive hospitality (which had to be paid for) and similarly a large loss at the end of year presentation which again was not well supported but still needed to be funded. Richard & David complained that without the usual TV cover they might just as well move away from Honda and go club racing. BW commented that was their choice. They were also concerned that if they paid their entrance fees and the series became financially unsound they would lose their investment as well as the opportunity to complete a full championship. BW stated that this will not happen and IS added that Cougar would underwrite the series in the unlikely event that the current tight budgetary control measures were to fail.

Rose Lores (competitor and Honda employee) claimed that in her meetings with Honda Management it had been stated that 2008 overspend would be settled by Honda so that this year’s sponsorship would not have to cover last year’s debts. IS replied that this had not been the case and Rose commented that she would investigate this issue further.

Mark Cockman (competitor) asked what the break even point would be with the number of entries required for this year to be viable. BW responded by saying that a straw poll indicated that there were 13 teams from each class likely to enter the 2009 series. The problem was not simply financial but venues had been promised around 20 boats per class and in some cases (where venues were sponsoring an event) it would be embarrassing (if not a breach of contract) if we subsequently turn up with six boats or fewer. He added that a minimum of ten boats per class would be required. Competitors were urged to pay their entry fees and commit to the series by the deadline (March 31st). IS stated that she could accept payments at the meeting. Last year entry forms had been sent out on 7th January with payment required by 28th February. This year entry forms were sent out on 19th January with payment required by 31st March (an extra 19 days!).

AJ made a plea for competitors to return their PR forms and boat pictures were always welcome along with any interesting PR stories. She added that the newsletter will start again but was very dependent on competitors forwarding contributions each month. Any input to race programmes had to be received by her by 20th April.

Race Venues:

BW listed each venue emphasising that local authorities had been very amenable this year and he and Alan Goodwin had managed to cut costs enormously this year compared to 2008. All venues were very keen to welcome us in 2009. Cowes would be interesting as on the Saturday all of the competing fleets will start together with the start boat being the Red Jet Ferry. At Hurst Narrows Honda and ORDA would peel off and complete a one circuit and two-circuit course respectively before returning to Cowes. The remainder of the fleet will carry onto Torquay. Thus Honda race boats will be the first to return to Cowes followed by ORDA and then the competitors in the Cowes Torquay classic. On the Sunday we will compete on our own in a normal circuit race.

Venue dates are:

Pwllheli 9/10 May

Plymouth 20/21 June

Lowestoft 25/26 July

Cowes 29/30 August

Isle of Man 19/20 September



Race Format & Championship Details:

BW stated that note had been taken of the requests made by competitors at the winter meetings held by Paul Plant (who was thanked in his absence for his efforts to co-ordinate competitors’ wishes for 2009). As a result the race format would return to pre 2008 with two races per day (one per class). The Championship would, therefore, be decided over ten races per class (no dropped scores allowed in 2009-by request of competitors).


Rules and Boat Specifications:

BW announced that a small working party had already met to discuss rules and specs in detail. The draft rules would be issued to competitors in the following week for comments before the final draft would be completed before the end of April.

The working group comprises: Tony Crossley, Marcus Bradshaw, Gary Payne (GP) (Chief Scrutineer), Pete Currington, Brian Wheeler and Alan Goodwin.

Much work has been done with the RYA since last season and agreement has been reached to dispense with hitherto mandatory items of kit eg compass, charts, nav lights, fog horn etc: Full list in Rules. However, this will need to be reviewed in view of the Cowes race to Poole.

GP gave a short brief on the role of scrutineers and how their task was not to prohibit people from racing but to strike a keen balance to ensure as much parity in a one-class series as was possible without being overly prescriptive. This year a comment sheet (regarding discrepancies in other boats) will be issued for completion by competitors (anonymously) if they wish, without going through a full protest procedure.

There was strong feeling from the floor that the current minimum weight limit for the 150 class should be returned to 1,100 kgms (ie from 1,120kgms). The working group will discuss this issue before a final decision can be made.

Volunteers for 2009:

A very successful meeting had been held with our long established volunteers who were very sympathetic and understanding of the needs to cut costs this year. The services of some have regrettably been suspended this year. BW stressed the need for competitors to offer any help they can at each venue.

End of season presentation:

David Hobson (competitor) had offered to work with F4SA to organise this year’s end of season party at a hotel in Windsor. This will be a much less glitzy affair than the series has witnessed in the recent past.

2010:

The series is still seeking a sponsor for the future. It seems certain that this will be the last year of Honda sponsorship. A number of initiatives are on offer and BW recommended to the meeting the Tony Crossley paper, which proposes a competitor funded way forward if a sponsorship deal is not forthcoming.

AOB:

Simon Loveridge (competitor) made the point at the end of the meeting that in all of the different types of motor racing he has participated in, F4SA was by far the cheapest and best value for money. Even Go Karting championships cost over £2k to enter for a season. By far the majority of the meeting agreed with this sentiment.

BW informed the meeting that Dave Cockman is qualifying as an OOD and will be Assistant OOD on events this year.


Finally Dave Cockman expressed his appreciation to BW for his work in ensuring that there will be a series in 2009.

The meeting concluded at 12:00

I knew something was going on,one part of post that intrigues me is the 50k so called loss and the necessary expensive hospitality,no show by the main men,gravy train over is it? No wonder all these 225s on ebay,cougar will pick up the tab?Doubt it,not when i heard a whisper about 30foot ribs with twins coming out?Cougar are in buisness to sell boats,no 225s,no 150s are going out,they have to survive,honda racers you are getting dumped,sorry to be the 1st to say it.

[CUV 1]

Sad to see the end of the funding but the series clearly never belonged to the competitors. Used to be talk of big money from Honda for the series and TV, Entry from teams and some good venue sponsors. The later seem to have decided the value for money was not to impressive. Seems some teams have already voted with their feet/boats.
Competitors and teams could come racing with everybody else in offshore or ocr for a lot less money and be in control of their own destiny.

At least they would know where their money goes.

[BluFin]

From a post Last year. Sad to hear but there is a lot of trimming of Budgets going on & this is but one of many. Just hope somebody steps up a picks up the series for the racers involved .

Originally Posted by BluFin

Not wishing to sound toooo much like Dr Death but no sponsorship deal lasts forever.

At some point Honda will withdraw, it's a fact of life. They will move onto pasture new.

It's what is in place for such an eventuality. I assume somebody has thought about it?


NOOOOOOOT!!!!!! (Borat Voice)

The 21 will be OK that could have some use but the 225 would have less of a market (Ping !!!!!) Stick a Verado on it


FWIW I hope that is a long way off & the series continues to enjoy success

[Scream-it.com]

Soon we'll be testing an alternative engine on the boat. It will be black and not silver in colour. Very excited about the testing.
Sad thing is that our amazingly devalued boat was proven to be one of the fastest in the fleet. Note that one of the boats for sale on Cougar's site is owned by the chap who commented on the cheapness of entry versus kart racing. Funny that.

[dowdy]

Originally Posted by Scream-it.com

Soon we'll be testing an alternative engine on the boat. It will be black and not silver in colour. Very excited about the testing.
Sad thing is that our amazingly devalued boat was proven to be one of the fastest in the fleet. Note that one of the boats for sale on Cougar's site is owned by the chap who commented on the cheapness of entry versus kart racing. Funny that.

Nice one scream it,now you will see what your boat can really do.Bet ya Scotts going same way or a rib with twins,MERC TWINS

[CUV 1]

Should be quite an impressive boat with a black engine on the back. No saddle problems every week etc. By the way are Honda running warranty on the engines this year.

Whats it to be 200hp XR2 or 280hp 2.5

200hp + 70+
280 maybe 80mph AND NOISE Could be good

Seriously why dont Honda boats race at other National events as they are welcome by all clubs. Save them a shed load of entry and get the same result ie a race, no tv or hospitality.

But maybe look after their own future

[JBP]

I remeber when even Eddie Jordan had a team with EJ10 and racing with OCRDA at Tiengmouth, great event with the 21s.

Could swap em over for ETEC150hp HO nd race in ours and other classes, even better if they can sustaine their own tho as the series has got a good following.

[Scream-it.com]

Seriously why dont Honda boats race at other National events as they are welcome by all clubs. Save them a shed load of entry and get the same result ie a race, no tv or hospitality.

But maybe look after their own future

I suspect there is a chance this year. They announced yesterday they will run with 13 150s and 7 225s.

I for one have been given a list of events and will be looking for the alternative. As Brian Wheeler stated at the meeting the choice is ours!

I'll publish the list I have been given by UKOBA for the benefit of those somewhat dissappointed by F4SA Ltd and thier financial mis-management. Incidentally, they failed to minute that they blamed their previous accountant for making such a mess of it and that teams may expect to receive invoices not knowing whether they had been previously issued, paid or not etc. But then they always like to shape minutes for the benefit of the organisation, not send them out for approval for I cannot see how David Baker and I could speak exactly the same words??

They like to air their comments, directly or indirectly on people across their contact list and will no doubt be upset when they see a response made in public forum.

F4SA Ltd, since it's inception has displayed arrogance, lack of listening to teams and is now hell bent on extracting money from race teams to fill it's black hole in a desperate attempt to avoid collapse.

Honda should bear some responsibility for managing the worst handover in history. They cannot blame the recession as it was planned and announced during a working party meeting during November 2007. If the F4SA finances were in such a mess where was the Board Governance?

The fact that the AGM had no official Honda sponsor representative or Board member (past or present?) or it's founder at a time like this is was absolute disgrace and undermines the professionalism one would expect from these organisations where such volumes of investment were at stake.

Whilst Brian states it's a return to enthusiastic racing like the good old days, I personally fail to accept that their mis-management has resulted in my boat being worth probably less than 2/3rds of its value in less than 2 years. I warned them and Honda of this last year and as many of us predicted they made a mess of it.

Perhaps when they are tucking into their beer at that event in Wales (I can't even pronounce) they will reflect upon the systematic destruction of what was once the World's Largest Powerboat Series and have a thought for the poor devils who invested heavily in the series.

It is a shame but frankly a situation that could easily have been avoided through effective management.

Wouldn't it be great to see another Brawn GP?

[CUV 1]

Return to the days of enthusiastic racing.

I thought your top man BW had never seen/been to a powerboat race until last year.

[MIKE HUNT]

i dont know much about honda ! but do know fact bw has never been in a powerboat i know the bloke and god help the honda series with him in charge ! he is in it for one reason himself!!!!!

[dowdy]

Originally Posted by Scream-it.com

I suspect there is a chance this year. They announced yesterday they will run with 13 150s and 7 225s.

I for one have been given a list of events and will be looking for the alternative. As Brian Wheeler stated at the meeting the choice is ours!

I'll publish the list I have been given by UKOBA for the benefit of those somewhat dissappointed by F4SA Ltd and thier financial mis-management. Incidentally, they failed to minute that they blamed their previous accountant for making such a mess of it and that teams may expect to receive invoices not knowing whether they had been previously issued, paid or not etc. But then they always like to shape minutes for the benefit of the organisation, not send them out for approval for I cannot see how David Baker and I could speak exactly the same words??

They like to air their comments, directly or indirectly on people across their contact list and will no doubt be upset when they see a response made in public forum.

F4SA Ltd, since it's inception has displayed arrogance, lack of listening to teams and is now hell bent on extracting money from race teams to fill it's black hole in a desperate attempt to avoid collapse.

Honda should bear some responsibility for managing the worst handover in history. They cannot blame the recession as it was planned and announced during a working party meeting during November 2007. If the F4SA finances were in such a mess where was the Board Governance?

The fact that the AGM had no official Honda sponsor representative or Board member (past or present?) or it's founder at a time like this is was absolute disgrace and undermines the professionalism one would expect from these organisations where such volumes of investment were at stake.

Whilst Brian states it's a return to enthusiastic racing like the good old days, I personally fail to accept that their mis-management has resulted in my boat being worth probably less than 2/3rds of its value in less than 2 years. I warned them and Honda of this last year and as many of us predicted they made a mess of it.

Perhaps when they are tucking into their beer at that event in Wales (I can't even pronounce) they will reflect upon the systematic destruction of what was once the World's Largest Powerboat Series and have a thought for the poor devils who invested heavily in the series.

It is a shame but frankly a situation that could easily have been avoided through effective management.

Wouldn't it be great to see another Brawn GP?

Firstly,its Phwellei,PERFWELLY come on down i will buy you a pint.That advert where the boat goes over the cliff could come back to haunt honda,all their bumpf about it being the greatest thing since sliced bread,BOLLIX,as said in previous honda posts,it was a gloryfied advert and free developement on their engines with the bulk of you guys chucking up to 40k each in to fund their developement,the 130,150 and225.If i was involved with you guys i would raise a collective and sue for my money back,you have been sold a package under false pretences.

[dowdy]

Just digesting the minutes again,H4sa LTD have not got tuppence to rub together,the fact that they are a limited co,.tells its own story,COUGAR are just the boat builder,i doubt you could go for them,probably run for the hills if you did,all go for HONDA as a collective to try and get something back.Have a bet with you all now H4sa in liquidation within 6 months?On the bright side,there will always be a venue somewhere to have a blast in,aint the end of the world,might even get a 225 myself now and shove one of my mercs on it,i can see plenty knockin about the end of sept,.

[Scream-it.com]

Originally Posted by dowdy

Just digesting the minutes again,H4sa LTD have not got tuppence to rub together,the fact that they are a limited co,.tells its own story,COUGAR are just the boat builder,i doubt you could go for them,probably run for the hills if you did,all go for HONDA as a collective to try and get something back.Have a bet with you all now H4sa in liquidation within 6 months?On the bright side,there will always be a venue somewhere to have a blast in,aint the end of the world,might even get a 225 myself now and shove one of my mercs on it,i can see plenty knockin about the end of sept,.

There are plenty available now.

Rhys and Haydns - Salcombe Honda Specialists
Neil Crabb's Premier Cru
Notorious (ex Ciderdaze) is upside down in Chris Parsonage's place awaiting a willing buyer I suspect.
Octane is for sale and quite new

And probably more if you investigate..

I can't wait to test a 2.5 280 just to see - though rebalancing the boat with at least 70kg less on the back will be interesting...

[dowdy]

what about negotiator and team williams? going to get one,get one thats already been blueprinted,save your money.

[Tom Stone]

Originally Posted by Scream-it.com

I can't wait to test a 2.5 280 just to see - though rebalancing the boat with at least 70kg less on the back will be interesting...

Are you fitting trim tabs or anything? i realise the wieght off the transom will help but can't ignore the 225's tendance to roll over

[Scream-it.com]

Originally Posted by Tom Stone

Are you fitting trim tabs or anything? i realise the wieght off the transom will help but can't ignore the 225's tendance to roll over

In my experience it wants to roll when in the wrong trim and on a corner. I saw a recent article in World of Powerboats showing Xcite being driven on a turn with the engine right in. That, if in a race would have gone over in an instant!

If you are tucked in too tight the bow steers its basically buy buy. The classic is what happened to Negotiator on my wake in Lowestoft. The boys caught my curve and dumped Nathan over the side. The force is incredible. Then in Liverpool (the following race) I crossed thier curve in front of Albert Dock on a mark and knew exactly what was going to happen but too late - you feel stupid after though.

Running straight should be better with less pendulum effect - but we'll see.

Corners - well have to treat with respect and build up to it - I know the way my props work and where to trim. The fear of going over...now that's part of the fun with these things - you have the constant fear of getting it wrong which assists the adrenalin rush!

Scott Williams is now excited because he reckons he knows exactly where that limit is and I know he will drive to it in whatever conditions cos he's from Liverpool and completely bonkers!

[Jon Fuller]

Originally Posted by CUV 1

Whats it to be 200hp XR2 or 280hp 2.5

+ a decent, safe hull, class mended!

Sorry guys.

Taxi!

[BluFin]

Originally Posted by Scream-it.com

I can't wait to test a 2.5 280 just to see - though rebalancing the boat with at least 70kg less on the back will be interesting...

Interesting