Interesting Comment on H.225

Originally Posted by Temporarily Insane

To be honest I saw the Honda promotional vid on youtube, but I saw it as rather impressive and exciting to look at, which I guess was the whole idea of a promotional video.

I gotta start getting serious in life

yea its promotional all the bits veiwers wants 2 see not the 40mins of safe racing we do in a race and yea jon we fall out on the racing line cause thats where we are we crash it happens its power boat racing of the circuit style where not doing cowes t cowes

[Jon Fuller]

I take your point, but how often did people 'fall out' of the 80mph, 18' 2 litre OCR boats? ,,pretty rare.

2 litre OCR was possibly the most exciting (and impressive) salt water circuit style racing there has been. They would lap the honda boats in no time. but it wasn't necessary to fall out every 5 mins, yet they were going considerably faster, in smaller boats..... Progress??? You didn't see anything like the same level of 'contact' either.

The nature of the OCR beast meant that they were virtually 'one design' by default.

Originally Posted by Jon Fuller

I take your point, but how often did people 'fall out' of the 80mph, 18' 2 litre OCR boats? ,,pretty rare.

2 litre OCR was possibly the most exciting (and impressive) salt water circuit style racing there has been. They would lap the honda boats in no time. but it wasn't necessary to fall out every 5 mins, yet they were going considerably faster, in smaller boats..... Progress???

The nature of the OCR beast meant that they were virtually 'one design' by default.

dont know much about ocr to be honest but they raced after us at ramsgate 2001 honda 130s averaged about 46mph ocr 38mph very rough though, 80mph all about conditions.all i have ever heard is other classes slag off the honda class is there any post on here with the honda guys girls and shims slagging ocr ect,had an ocr champion nav 4 me last year he shat himself and we only got up to 66 mph

[Temporarily Insane]

'ocr champion nav 4 me last year he shat himself and we only got up to 66 mph '

You are not Johnny Twelvetrees are you

[Jon Fuller]

Originally Posted by skull666

dont know much about ocr to be honest but they raced after us at ramsgate 2001 honda 130s averaged about 46mph ocr 38mph very rough though,

Summat aint right there! the 130s only managed about that as a top speed in perfect conditions, so it really doesn't figure that it would be possible to 'average' that speed on a millpond, let alone a 'very rough' race. My opinion (wrong though it may be) is that a 'high end' 2 litre OCR driver/boat would lap a 'high end' Honda 130/150 blindfolded, and would beat a Honda 225 in all but the roughest of races.

watch this vid and then watch the Honda promo vid and tell me if you really think a 130H would wipe the floor with one in a chop.

http://media.boatmad.com/gallery/v/m...rling.wmv.html

Originally Posted by skull666

had an ocr champion nav 4 me last year he shat himself and we only got up to 66 mph

What does that tell you.

I guess we'll have to agree to dissagree.

Originally Posted by Jon Fuller

What does that tell you.

I guess we'll have to agree to dissagree.

since the 225 series started nearly every year we have been given a prop that runs slower than the year before are boats will easerly run over 70 with the right prop we get what we are given we are not doing straight line speed runs even when we went to the lakes we had 2 run our honda props the most ive got out of mine is 58.8 knts whats that in mph

Originally Posted by Temporarily Insane

'ocr champion nav 4 me last year he shat himself and we only got up to 66 mph '

You are not Johnny Twelvetrees are you

no kev 4 skins

[Jon Fuller]

Originally Posted by skull666

the most ive got out of mine is 58.8 knts whats that in mph

67.68mph, but that wasn't my point.

Lets move on, I wasn't trying to start a row, just giving an opinion.

[verytricky]

****.

Honda are bloody dangerous and do not follow colregs or any sort of care about their competitors...

Hopefully they will be clamped down on before they do kill or injure someone.

Our RYA fees are high enough without a bunch of wankers adding to it. It is down to luck - not skill - that you have not already done someone in.

[welshman]

Sorry for getting the days wrong, it does not change my views on what No 1navigator said about her driving the 150 boat. We must try and encourage any one who has a go.

[cider daze]

no kev 4 skins Nice one kev made me laugh

[Tony Crossley delmar raci]

Originally Posted by verytricky

****.

Honda are bloody dangerous and do not follow colregs or any sort of care about their competitors...

Hopefully they will be clamped down on before they do kill or injure someone.

Our RYA fees are high enough without a bunch of wankers adding to it. It is down to luck - not skill - that you have not already done someone in.

Tricky you are bigist **** in powerboat raing to date.
I think a lot of people will agree.
Look at your own racing.
Why can you leave honda racing alone, honde people dont slag of v24, what the point where does it get you......

[Wild Thing]

I think the honda series makes great watching on TV, if it is allegedly so dangerous why do ITV back it every year?

[cfun]

Over the years I must say I thought the 130hp class with up to 20 boats was very entertaining and considering their jostling for position in such a large field would lead to the odd knock I had always considered these boats to be fit for purpose and great fun, however like everyone else I consider the 225hp class to be a step to far they appear to be right on the edge with a level of unpredictability that borders on dangerous this gives the viewer the WOW factor but for those that know powerboat racing or are involved, it can only be seen as foolish...In looking to make a fast cutting edge hull with a 225 engine things I believe ended up a bit to far into the danger zone and to boot it is more than likely a faster and safer mono could be developed by many boat designers/builders the answer maybe weight them down so they can not be so flighty and in doing so hold their speeds down to the low to mid 60pmh mark, safety of the competitor must be paramount at all costs

[Jon Fuller]

Once they get on their side, that curved topsides at the rear end appears suck itself into the water, and doesn't wanna let go. I reckon they're capapble of falling over at 50.

I'm told the 8m rib, which uses the same running surface, is fine, as it doesn't have the same rear topside profile and has the tube too, to help stop it getting over that far in the first place.
I'm sure therefore, a revised topside profile would sort most, if not all of the problem out.

The bottom can't be too bad, they're reasonably quick for a boat of that size with that power & weight of motor.

Maybe an increase in the angle of the reamost running surface (last step backwards) just out at the chine line would help to pop em back on the straight & narrow when they get into that 'roll' situation.
Twood certainly be an interesting project to try & sort the handling out.

[Scream-it.com]

In speed terms we did get 73.4 mph in Liverpool but then again the Mersey was running a bit ;-) But for me coming into racing from offshore sailing in yachts, believe me there is much more risk and danger and a much higher death rate. Being caught in a big blow in the middle of a big sea? I saw a guy nearly killed by a teapot during a knock down! Safety IS paramount in Honda and penalties are handed out. I had only driven my 225 for 2.5 hours before Torquay but we were sensible enough to stay out of the way of the experienced guys and I think most people who join tend to 'work the boat up'. It may sound a bit sickly but the series is for the common good of powerboat racing and Sarah, like everyone here, is entitled to express views. Good luck to her in the Round Britain, at least like the rest of us she is doing and not talking. Honda didn't work out for her but heck that's racing isn't it? Any coverage for the sport focus attention on it. The news is good for all of us whether it is Sarah in the paper, Shelly between F1 episodes or even two crazy entrepreneurs from Plymouth "with all the gear and no idea" On Westcountry News!

[The Force]

Originally Posted by Jon Fuller

My opinion (wrong though it may be) is that a 'high end' 2 litre OCR driver/boat would lap a 'high end' Honda 130/150 blindfolded.

I agree - from what I have seen of the 2 litre OCR boats they are very very quick, but a bit apples and oranges - are pumping out well over 200HP with 2 stroke tuned engine, with tuned props and weigh bugger all. We have to run at 1100KG's minimum and have a standard leisure spec engine with no changes - and standard s/s 3 blade prop that you are allowed to thin and cup slightly(and honda carry a jig to check it). My experience is similar to fourskins, in the rough we can have a good race with OCR 2 litre, in the calm we wave goodbye, and wave again about 1/2 an hour later when they come past again

You can't argue with the pedigree of the 130/150 boat - I believe its an extreme 21 hull - with a much bigger freeboard than the OCR boats hence why i think its a little bit better in the really big rough - when the OCR boats cant get all that power down. My other experience is that my boat tends to run a little bit slower in the calm, however I believe thats to do with the greater hull drag and engine torque curves ( a little bit of air gets you over the bump)

By the way - that Stirling Chap looks like an absolute legend - top vid!

[BluFin]

But are the Colregs in Race instructions & the drivers breifing, There have been many posts on this thread from actual racers could they confirm that point.
There numbers of boats has pretty much nothing to do with the bump & grind thats "Promoted" in all the vids. Heck even an old fossile like myself can recall a 60 boat start line all running to the mark without incident and the there are many others from the past that would confirm that fact.
It has been a successful series & I hope it remains so. But like most sports the Manufacturer willl move on the repoted change in status to that of sponsor maybe the start. Sponsors normally only hang around for a short time 3 years being the norm. as racers in the class how do you feel about this change, will it affect the numbers, what if honda pull out totally in a year or so, would it continue in the current class format.
At some point I'd love to see a Honda Vs the rest of the classes challenge race using the same cc it would be a great head to head.

[Temporarily Insane]

Jon, have you got any more OCR clips.

I know Derek has the video of the Gibralter race but I dont have one of those antiquated machines , so was wondering if there is any more clips on here I can look at.

Cheers

[daze]

blufin, as like most it would be good to try a 200xs on the back of cougar 225 boat and have a go and race others to see what it would do, but and a big but, honda is the surport and a good surport to powerboat racing.
As a racer you chose your sport and make the best of the ruels set.