Is it time to move away from thr RYA

[Foolish]

So the RYA has 3 powerboating disciplines under its control .. Circuit / Jetsport & Offshore.

Why is it only Offshore that seems to be suffering ?

[neal_skyline]

look at all there advtising,every 1 but offshore,ie,latest vid on facebook,not 1 3b boat ,its all inshore or ukff,zapcats

[Foolish]

Originally Posted by neal_skyline

look at all there advtising,every 1 but offshore,ie,latest vid on facebook,not 1 3b boat ,its all inshore or ukff,zapcats

What this one ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gr12WHh7KyY&sns=em

[Hydrostream]

Originally Posted by neal_skyline

look at all there advtising,every 1 but offshore,ie,latest vid on facebook,not 1 3b boat ,its all inshore or ukff,zapcats

Is UKFF not considered an offshore class?

[Hydrostream]

Originally Posted by willh

In response to Cookees reply. Yes maybe I am slightly off the mark making notes about Spain but my main point is that the RYA are virtually not recognized by any European country as they are not an official government organization. They only recognize MCA.

A further few points about the RYA.
1. Over 60% if there revenue comes from motor, powerboat and jet ski members as these are now being regulated by local authorities unlike sail.

2. There budget for the motor side as far as resource is only 30% compaired to sail.

3 the Uk is the only country in Europe that does not require licenses to skipper a boat. ( how mad is that that you could buy a 24mtr Sunseeker and drive it away with no experience) also the RYA are happy to issue a ICC for this type of craft of which you could pass on a 10mtr RIB then happily take it abroad. Now you wonder why there EU counterparts think the same about the RYA as most people on this site.

I think to a degree just these few points show how mad the RYA is and the system.

Also there are some other relavent points to consider.

Firstly almost all other countries run there powerboat racing by an official powerboat organization only (not sail, rowing boats) so they are dedicated to there sport. Big example APBA!!

Take motor sport. These are run ny racing Car clubs. Take British racing drivers accociation. The organizing body reporting to the FIA. Not the RAC or the AA!!

When I was racing back in 80s early 90s there where fleets of upto 70 boats from 3b to class 1 doing around 14 races a year. Now your lucky if you get 10 boats to do 6 races a year. Yes I understand we are in tough times but then why is that other countries are managing to still put races on.

I think to sum up when you have the likes of Mike Lloyd and his team fail to organize a tremendous event as the Cowes-Monti Carlo race due to without doubt the RYA then what future is there for powerboat racing in the UK.

The only way forward is for the drivers to run and organize there own club and get the UIM to recognize this. It is possible. If the desire is there then it can happen. But everybody has to stop knocking each other and work to do this.

Id really love to know where you get your statistics from!
Over 60% of revenue to the RYA from powerboats??? What about all the sailing clubs in the country, with 100's of members each, all paying an affiliation fee based on member no's?

The UK is not the only country in Europe not requiring a license to drive a motorboat!

[Renegade]

With the amount of bashing being done.... by myself to i admit. I would like to say that some people on the administration side ( i dont knowvhow else to describe it) have always been helpful... it not neccesserily aimed at them. Deborah Francis , Nikki Drummond and of course Sheila Wright. ( and anyone else i may have called for help in the past)

I think its only fair in my mind to say thanks. and nowt from me is towards that side of things.

Thanks.
Paul

[willh]

Originally Posted by Hydrostream

Id really love to know where you get your statistics from!
Over 60% of revenue to the RYA from powerboats??? What about all the sailing clubs in the country, with 100's of members each, all paying an affiliation fee based on member no's?

The UK is not the only country in Europe not requiring a license to drive a motorboat!

Hydrostream firstly you will find virtually all the answers on the World Wide Web. Secondly you can check a lot of information from filed accounts. I think you will also find that virtually all en countries with costal waters require a licence. If there maybe one or two I apologise but I would love to know how you would get from the UK to the med for example without one.

Moving on a little yes I am personally not happy about the RYA. Not just for power boating but motor boating in general. I have been involved in boating for the best part of 40 years. Powerboat racing, pleasure boating, comercial charter, sea schools etc which over this time have had many dealings with the RYA. Up to about 10 years ago they where fantastic but during the last 10 have evolved into a dictatorial, behind the times organization that cannot accept that they are loosing respect amongst its members but also within the industry


Perhaps this is the wrong thread to discuss the RYA in general and perhaps a new thread should be started?

[Cookee]

Originally Posted by willh

In response to Cookees reply. Yes maybe I am slightly off the mark making notes about Spain but my main point is that the RYA are virtually not recognized by any European country as they are not an official government organization. They only recognize MCA.

A further few points about the RYA.
1. Over 60% if there revenue comes from motor, powerboat and jet ski members as these are now being regulated by local authorities unlike sail.

2. There budget for the motor side as far as resource is only 30% compaired to sail.

3 the Uk is the only country in Europe that does not require licenses to skipper a boat. ( how mad is that that you could buy a 24mtr Sunseeker and drive it away with no experience) also the RYA are happy to issue a ICC for this type of craft of which you could pass on a 10mtr RIB then happily take it abroad. Now you wonder why there EU counterparts think the same about the RYA as most people on this site.

I think to a degree just these few points show how mad the RYA is and the system.

Also there are some other relavent points to consider.

Firstly almost all other countries run there powerboat racing by an official powerboat organization only (not sail, rowing boats) so they are dedicated to there sport. Big example APBA!!

Take motor sport. These are run ny racing Car clubs. Take British racing drivers accociation. The organizing body reporting to the FIA. Not the RAC or the AA!!

When I was racing back in 80s early 90s there where fleets of upto 70 boats from 3b to class 1 doing around 14 races a year. Now your lucky if you get 10 boats to do 6 races a year. Yes I understand we are in tough times but then why is that other countries are managing to still put races on.

I think to sum up when you have the likes of Mike Lloyd and his team fail to organize a tremendous event as the Cowes-Monti Carlo race due to without doubt the RYA then what future is there for powerboat racing in the UK.

The only way forward is for the drivers to run and organize there own club and get the UIM to recognize this. It is possible. If the desire is there then it can happen. But everybody has to stop knocking each other and work to do this.

Once again I would like to see some proof of your "Facts".

1 As hydrostream says - 60% of the RYA's income - really?

2 30% of the budget goes to powerboat racing? Do we represent 30% of the membership? I would be very surprised.

3 Once again nothing to do with powerboat racing

APBA do organise racing in the US, but they aren't the only ones and there is infighting between the different organisers.

Maybe we should stop complaining about the RYA having yachting in their name and concentrate on the real reason everyone is unhappy. Powerboat racing could be more healthy!

1 Different organising clubs ignoring other clubs and dong their own calendar and no cooperation between them

2 No promoter that pushes the sport onto TV (look at how successful Honda was.)

3 Strong leadership from the top - good old fashioned firm but fair banging some heads together to get everyone on the same page.

[Jon Fuller]

Originally Posted by Cookee

2 No promoter that pushes the sport onto TV (look at how successful Honda was.)

To be fair, Honda was (just like P1) only successful at getting TV & attracting sponsorship, while money was being poured down it's neck at an incredible rate by a sugar daddy, at effectively total loss. Neither were real, or self funding, so not good examples.
It's been said many times, powerboat racing is a sport for those who can afford it.
The days of the early CT/CTC had the benefit of it's greatest fan, Sir Max Aitken, forcing the rich mans sport into the media (his media). Again, not a natural interest from the public.
For decades powerboat racing folk have argued about how we're to get the coverage required to get the sponsors etc etc, and for decades I think it's beed a daft pipe dream.
The cost of fuel, extra red tape and aggro now present, the greens, H&S, all add to the pot and have quite simply made it a pretty unattractive sport to take part in, can't see it changing back anytime soon.

So unless you want to pop a funnel in the mouth of powerboat racing and start pouring cash into it (in vast quantities) I would forget any dreams of Powerboat racing ever being a waterborne F1.

[Cookee]

Originally Posted by Jon Fuller

To be fair, Honda was (just like P1) only successful at getting TV & attracting sponsorship, while money was being poured down it's neck at an incredible rate by a sugar daddy, at effectively total loss. Neither were real, or self funding, so not good examples.
It's been said many times, powerboat racing is a sport for those who can afford it.


I would forget any dreams of Powerboat racing ever being a waterborne F1.

I would agree with you wholeheartedly on your last point - It's never going to happen!

I'm not sure how long Honda sponsored the series for but it was quite a while so they must have had some perceived benefit from it?

[Jon Fuller]

Honda are a gigantic corporation, with to all intents and purposes, limitless funds. for them, owning and controlling an entire series (and thus swinging all the hype/propaganda etc in a desired direction) for a good few years may well have 'paid off', I guess it must have.
But we all know, that a more traditional sponsor, who doesn't own the series wholesale, or control it as they did, wouldn't get the benefit, plus, the people controlling the sport, and the people controlling the sponsorship "funds", would milk the F*ck out of it till the sponsor never wanted hear the words 'powerboat racing' ever again!
Rangoonwalla has poured sums of money into P1 that would make you go weak at the knees, not because he gets anything back (he may have thought he would once upon a time, but we know he won't) basically because he is a fan of the sport. So again, not exactly a traditional sponsor, but a megga wealthy nutta (rare).

[Cookee]

Originally Posted by Jon Fuller

Honda are a gigantic corporation, with to all intents and purposes, limitless funds. for them, owning and controlling an entire series (and thus swinging all the hype/propaganda etc in a desired direction) for a good few years may well have 'paid off', I guess it must have.
But we all know, that a more traditional sponsor, who doesn't own the series wholesale, or control it as they did, wouldn't get the benefit, plus, the people controlling the sport, and the people controlling the sponsorship "funds", would milk the F*ck out of it till the sponsor never wanted hear the words 'powerboat racing' ever again!
Rangoonwalla has poured sums of money into P1 that would make you go weak at the knees, not because he gets anything back (he may have thought he would once upon a time, but we know he won't) basically because he is a fan of the sport. So again, not exactly a traditional sponsor, but a megga wealthy nutta (rare).

Agree with everything you say really - I don't think the RYA are the problem it's the people and the policies that need to change, whether that's with the RYA or another organisation I don't know or care really, and whilst it might bring some rationalisation to UK powerboating it will never cure everything.

[Jon Fuller]

Originally Posted by Cookee

Agree with everything you say really -

F*ck me, that makes you totally unique!

[Cookee]

Originally Posted by Jon Fuller

F*ck me, that makes you totally unique!

.......... Sorry ........... I agree with everything you say - ABOVE!

[CB1]

As regards to the RYA and sponsorship, anyone remember Gibraltar?
The Russian sponsor get so fed up with the more,more,more attitude of the RYA and officials, he pulled the plug.. This was mostly down to a box of pens which race control demanded. The local agent, for the said promotor went ballistic, saying that they had paid over £200k and now you want us to supply stationary. Bye, bye Gibraltar. On that item, did anyone ever see published accounts of the series?

[Renegade]

I could never see how that event cost £200,000. mind you i never got my little refund promised. remember? any boats that didnt turn up got the £1000 allowance divided between boats.

[CB1]

When you saw the officials expenses claims you could see where it went.. They, the officials, didn't know that we knew the main sponsors guy on the ground, we met him up in Puerto Banous and got really friendly with him as he was ex services...

[Hydrostream]

Originally Posted by CB1

When you saw the officials expenses claims you could see where it went.. They, the officials, didn't know that we knew the main sponsors guy on the ground, we met him up in Puerto Banous and got really friendly with him as he was ex services...

Shame that! I dont know any of the particulars involved but its hard enough to get any major sponsorship on anything to do with the sport, why people would feel the need to take the pi$$, rather than be grateful. Im thankful for cheap digs at a race, free travel would see me at every race!

That said though, getting us and a boat from here down to Devon for a weekend certainly costs a pretty penny when its done! So I could see how travel could mount up with boat transport. Still good fun and worth it, just wish we could do it more often.

[CB1]

Don't get me wrong. As a competitor, the package was very good. It was about 2k per boat travel, plus accom for a week. Fantastic really, especially, if like us, you were already on the continent for 3c racing. Just made it a months jaunt....
The thing that really stunk was the lack of transparency in the whole money thing. There were wild estimates going around as to the amount that was paid. And instead of making public the totals, the gang of three kept it secret and fuelled even more speculation.. The rumour mill went to fever pitch, when very soon after the last meeting, two of the gang purchased large properties in France, and the competitors didn't receive their monies that were promised... Funny old game....

[biffer]

Read all the 3 pages of posts and I'm starting to realise why no ones racing, I'm sure someone will tell me the reason that you go racing, is it for the points, can't be the money, the glory, testing new ideas, what? Couldn't be the fun and enjoying other like minded people's company, I would love to say just get on and do it but I'm sure someone will have a good reason why you can't, if I'd have spent as much money as I know you guys have on your pride and joys I'd go racing on my own if I had too and still have fun, lads! Go back to basics and have some fun