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Old 30-03-2009, 08:27 PM   #1
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marathon rules,latest copy.

Section 3.3,monohulls only,surely this is restrictive practice.Why cant cats or even trimarrans[cirrus stilleto bigger version]race in their own class?You already have the field sub divided including an historic class.I am currently looking at various options for round ireland race including a cat and a tri,also,why was this thread locked before any replies could be posted?
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Old 30-03-2009, 10:43 PM   #2
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Section 3.3,monohulls only,surely this is restrictive practice.

Yes, it restricts entries to monohulls only. It's quite traditional for the endurance style racing to be monohull only, like the Martini Endurance series of the 90's.

I don't understand what makes you think anyone has a God given right to run any boat they like, in any form of racing they fancy.

I understand multihulls are allowed in Class III, and Class 1, plus many circuit classes. If racing a multihull is what you want to do, you need to find a class that allows them.

If you want to enter the Marathon racing class, you'll need to conform to the Marathon rules laid down for the series, that's how it works.

Of course, those who are organising the Ireland race may choose to allow multihulls in their event, that is their perogotive, but it won't be a class recognised by the RYA.

The thread was locked because it was for information only, not discussion.
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Old 30-03-2009, 10:44 PM   #3
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There was a huge amount of discussion last year for setting up a long term format, those involved & interested parties at the time went Mono only.

As this would be an Irish race & I assume they have their own authority as things stand they could run a multihull class if they wanted, in fact you could still run one in the UK if a club wanted it just would be a non-recognised class in the set structure. IMHO I doubt if you will see multihulls in the UK Marathon race series, well not unless there is a string of boats beating down the door and thats a long way off happening.

Note this is currently only RYA .

Edit: JF & I Doubled up a bit there, posted at the same time
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Old 31-03-2009, 12:31 AM   #4
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Section 3.3,monohulls only,surely this is restrictive practice.Why cant cats or even trimarrans[cirrus stilleto bigger version]race in their own class?
I asked the same question 3 or 4 times last year when the rules were being put together - got quoted everything from "They are too dangerous" to no answer...

I think the marathon racing is going to be lots of fun, but the rules do baffle me... we look back to the 70's 80's and 90's to justify one rule e.g. weights and Mono's only, then forward for others eg EPA vs non EPA outboards.

I thought Multi hulls in the past did race against the monos - looking at all the videos in the multimedia yesteryear section.

Anyway, the Marathon Series rules are what they are and I presume are designed to make the racing as competetive as possible between classes, I for one will be there to watch, but sadly non of the 3 boats I own qualify....

But if someone opens up one of the races as a Basic? you may see me on the water
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Old 31-03-2009, 09:49 AM   #5
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I think the marathon racing is going to be lots of fun, but the rules do baffle me... we look back to the 70's 80's and 90's to justify one rule e.g. weights and Mono's only, then forward for others eg EPA vs non EPA outboards.

I thought Multi hulls in the past did race against the monos - looking at all the videos in the multimedia yesteryear section.

Not a single person involved with making the rules 'wants' to bow to the greens, or suck the large one that is EPA/Green, if you can't understand the need to try and keep these people happy, you're unlikely to get any of it.

Correct, Multihull vs Mono was the order of Classes III, II, and 1, class III & 1 still exist, and still run both hull forms.....But, this isn't class III or 1, it's Marathon.

In conclusion, OCR have their rules, Class III has it's rules, Class 1 has it's rules, Honda has it's rules and so on. Those rules are what differentiate between each of the class's/series. Now, Marathon also has it's rules, and that in turn differentiates it from the others. Would Honda let you run your 6litre, merc powered cat? would the 3C mob let you run a class 1 cat? would OCR let you run a Formula 1 cat? the answer is of course NO, because the rules for those classes says so.

The Marathon series hasn't been developed as an open playing field for all and sundry to demand whatever boat, or engine type they fancy be eligable for whichever division. Right or wrong, the rules are there, if someone wants to come racing, buy or build a boat that conforms and join in. We hope that whilst not received as 100% perfect, the rules will give a reasonably level playing field for the type/style of craft wanted by the creators of the series and that it'll make for increased numbers in the genre in the coming years.
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Old 31-03-2009, 10:08 AM   #6
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multihulls.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Fuller View Post
Yes, it restricts entries to monohulls only. It's quite traditional for the endurance style racing to be monohull only, like the Martini Endurance series of the 90's.

I don't understand what makes you think anyone has a God given right to run any boat they like, in any form of racing they fancy.

I understand multihulls are allowed in Class III, and Class 1, plus many circuit classes. If racing a multihull is what you want to do, you need to find a class that allows them.

If you want to enter the Marathon racing class, you'll need to conform to the Marathon rules laid down for the series, that's how it works.

Of course, those who are organising the Ireland race may choose to allow multihulls in their event, that is their perogotive, but it won't be a class recognised by the RYA.

The thread was locked because it was for information only, not discussion.
Hi john,i have not been on this forum very long,but i have spent a lot of time reading old posts in an effort to bring me up to speed,it is now abundantly clear to me that you are the main man on here with possibly three maybe four other musketeers forming your select group,from what i can see on the posts,you are all mono men,me too,always have been,also what i have seen is that you helped to formulate the agenda for 2009 marathon rules,i have never owned or driven a cat,but there is words such as progress,change,freedom of choice,that come to mind.I want to give alan a chance to showcase his wares in probably the biggest arena he could probably get,i already have registered my intent with the irish sailing association and waiting for emails back,the rules for 2010 irish race have not yet been ratified,nor is the word[MARATHON]included in publicity pages currently available.I am not asking ,nor saying it is my god given right to race whatever i like,if the rules are set in stone,so be it,i will abide by them,as said earlier,2010 is yet to be decided,thats why i am doing what i am doing now.I do not know you nor alan,but anyone that does know me on this forum knows that i am a soft twut and will champion any cause that takes my eye,in this case its alans cat.If he is a boat builder he needs all the help he can get,it is not an easy vocation to have,you off all people should know that.
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Old 31-03-2009, 10:56 AM   #7
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Good reply, and I understand the feeling that being a large event, it would be a good showcase. The Irish lot might not embrace the Marathon rules at all, they may even make it multihull only, who knows.
My reaction is simply the result of months and months of people wanting change to suit them, and that goes right up to the very top, believe me.

Alans cat should be showcased in 3C (where there have been a couple of 21 Skaters before, 'Guernsey Skater', and 'Raving Mad' )
That would seem to me to be the perfect platform. (I'm assuming of course it still fits the rules)

regs

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Old 31-03-2009, 12:13 PM   #8
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Jon,

I may be speaking out of turn but if Class 1, Class 3, P1 or whatever were to put forward a proposal to enter say a minimum of 8 of their class boats and could demonstrate safety within the overall framework, then they would probably be welcomed with open arms to CTC etc as a seperate class.

Fact is they won't as they have successful series elsewhere. Indeed P1 abandoned CTC last year effectively leaving it dead in the water until Mike stepped in.

You're spot on that everybody would like their particular boat to be able to enter whatever race is put on. See the All Hallows thread.

Top marks to you for not letting the frustration get the better of you in your posts.

I still think you should have incorporated the zapcats on the 200 mile legs though
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Old 31-03-2009, 01:59 PM   #9
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Thing is not to loose sight of the fact that a structure & format had to be put into place for the revived endurance racing as it could all go tits up depending on each & every race. You canít have a free for all depending on the event, guys are gonna be sinking some serious money into rigs & want to know that they are good for a short while yet.
Pretty much everybody that was involved with the Endurance racing had some input. They are not fortune tellers with a crystal ball to guess who wants to do what 6 or 18 months down the road. Iím sure that the classes as stated & published wont change & shouldnít, but there could always be an add-on if there was a demand.

It doesnít have to be a closed door there is just no great demand when things were set up. Donít get me wrong Iím a huge multihull fan but they cost more to build over a conventional boat and cost is a factor in todayís world for most of us.

As for the 21 in IIIC I think itís too short for a 200XS but could run with an XR2ís (if itís under RYA)

I hope for they Irish race they have a couple of open mix Ďní match classes to capture boats that fall outside of the current set up (RYA) as not one size fits all.
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Old 31-03-2009, 02:06 PM   #10
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I for one will be there to watch, but sadly non of the 3 boats I own qualify....
So your in sales, but the 3 boats that you've bought don't fit the class you'd like to compete in? Hmm, makes you think don't it?
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Old 31-03-2009, 04:29 PM   #11
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Don't forget, Marathon is supposed to be a series. There's nothing to stop individual events/organisers running whatever classes they see fit outside of marathon.
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Old 31-03-2009, 04:32 PM   #12
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So your in sales, but the 3 boats that you've bought don't fit the class you'd like to compete in? Hmm, makes you think don't it?
Never bought a boat for the marathon Series - for various reasons my focus is elsewhere at the moment....

I will be watching the series, with interest, - im a huge supporter not a critic - think its exciting to see this type of racing back and established - never know, if things dont work out I may get rid of and buy one for the Marathon racing... Only time will tell.

Still dont get the green thing - probably never will

Working in Sales? thats the second insult i've had today - someone called me a professional Thief earlier!
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Old 31-03-2009, 04:36 PM   #13
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Force - If you could find one more 6ltr then there could be a National series
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Old 31-03-2009, 06:09 PM   #14
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someone called me a professional Thief earlier!
You must be in my line of business
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Old 01-04-2009, 09:31 AM   #15
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Working in Sales? thats the second insult i've had today
Maybe you should change your profile then!
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Old 01-04-2009, 09:53 AM   #16
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Jon,

Fact is they won't as they have successful series elsewhere. Indeed P1 abandoned CTC last year effectively leaving it dead in the water until Mike stepped in.
I have asked the Boss Man at P1 to release the P1 fleet for racing at Cowes. As far as he is concerened they can, "It's their decision if they want to break their boats and race elsewhere between P1 races" was his reply. So that's all right then?
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Old 01-04-2009, 10:14 AM   #17
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Maybe they should build them properly in the first place, then the assumption that simply "using them, automatically results in breakage" could be dropped.
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Old 01-04-2009, 10:23 AM   #18
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Quote

and that in turn differentiates it from the others. Would Honda let you run your 6litre, merc powered cat? would the 3C mob let you run a class 1 cat? would OCR let you run a Formula 1 cat? the answer is of course NO, because the rules for those classes says so.

or indeed a 2 Stroke engine over 1850cc !!
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Old 01-04-2009, 12:08 PM   #19
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or indeed a 2 Stroke engine over 1850cc !!
Which to be fair, is a shame. The old 2litre OCR 'A' was about as exciting as powerboat racing gets.
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Old 01-04-2009, 02:22 PM   #20
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Which to be fair, is a shame. The old 2litre OCR 'A' was about as exciting as powerboat racing gets.
I had the privilege of doing a few seasons in the left seat in a Phantom 18 - great fun!
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