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Old 02-11-2009, 07:35 PM   #81
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Originally Posted by maxamus View Post
Is ML's boat a rib or hard version then?

And the ilmores are now at 725 Hp, as are going in the cinzano boat.

Ilmore are also devloping a super charged version of the V10 and they are saying pos 850 - 900Hp for them!
Hi Max,
It is expected that the rib version will be available from January when the hull mould is in service.

Mike
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Old 02-11-2009, 10:45 PM   #82
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Hey Mike, a pair of these would make it go http://www.mercruiserparts.com/400_scorpion.htm
Its seems a 400hp stroked smallblock is quite popular combination in getting compact HP from a V8, I recall lots of people (like blueprint etc) offering various combinations when doing a bit of research some time back.

The only trouble is, when running a pair (at 383ci/6.276L) you'd be 50 odd cc over the limit for class D.
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Old 03-11-2009, 12:51 PM   #83
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If what you say is correct then Mike Ring + Mike Lloyd will probably want to know sooner rather than later, because going up to class C will be a big jump, against 480hp Yanmar/FPT/Cummins etc, and they would probably struggle to be on the pace. Maybe the rule needs to be taken to 12.6 litres for class D ?

Must admit I have been confused as some of the small blocks are advertissed as 6.2 litre and some 6.3 litre
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Old 03-11-2009, 01:04 PM   #84
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Originally Posted by wickedtopspeed View Post
If what you say is correct then Mike Ring + Mike Lloyd will probably want to know sooner rather than later, because going up to class C will be a big jump, against 480hp Yanmar/FPT/Cummins etc, and they would probably struggle to be on the pace. Maybe the rule needs to be taken to 12.6 litres for class D ?

Must admit I have been confused as some of the small blocks are advertissed as 6.2 litre and some 6.3 litre
Of course we are aware of the above. Will just have to make sure that whatever is purchased does not go over the Class D limit of 12.5 as that is now set in stone following confirmation from the UIM last week.

Class C is a step too far for us at this stage.
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Old 03-11-2009, 01:05 PM   #85
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The only trouble is, when running a pair (at 383ci/6.276L) you'd be 50 odd cc over the limit for class D.
Is there not a % allowance to take into consideration a rebore etc?
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Old 03-11-2009, 01:20 PM   #86
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Is there not a % allowance to take into consideration a rebore etc?
Rules applying:
ENGINE DESCRIPTIONS for all classes except A, B & C Note: The term ‘OEM’ = Original Engine Manufacturer.

a) Engines eligible for Marathon classes other than the classes A, B and C (all these are ‘free’) must be based on currently, or previously advertised/available mainstream production units (ie, Mercruiser, Volvo, OMC, Yanmar, Cummins, FPT etc) available to the general public through normal distribution channels with a minimum production run of 500 units.

Engines should be from the pleasure line, not the race line of engines from
any manufacturer, If the engine is listed with separate runner exhaust, as described in section (g), the motor is not acceptable. As an example, the Merc 525hp motor used in P1, has CMI headers with runner lengths greater than 6” long, so these motors would not be permissible. The old Merc 500 carb, had GILL/Merc alloy manifolds with common plenum, they would be acceptable, as would STD Merc 496HO’s, or 502efi’s.

b) The original bore & stroke must be retained, however, an allowance will be made for OEM piston oversize, i.e., +0.030.

c) Inlet system (intake manifold, intercooler, throttle body etc) MUST remain OEM; throttle bodies must retain OEM internal dimensions at butterfly.
Turbochargers must be OEM as specified as STD for motor to which it’s fitted.

d) Internal engine modifications are allowed, such as camshaft choice, cylinder head gas flowing etc, however, rules for OEM induction systems, intercoolers, turbochargers, etc will be strictly enforced.

e) Engine components may be compared to standard OEM components to establish eligibility.

f) Transom or side exhausts are permitted, providing that the total volume of water passing through the engine cooling system mixes with the exhaust gases from the manifold.
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Old 03-11-2009, 01:26 PM   #87
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That would be rather 'grey' I think, as these are not overbores/rebores, they are stock, and stock would appear to be too big.

Would be interesting to see the actual capacity of the 6.2, and where it endes up after a +0.030 rebore.
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Old 03-11-2009, 01:27 PM   #88
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Quote:
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b) The original bore & stroke must be retained, however, an allowance will be made for OEM piston oversize, i.e., +0.030.
So a Scorpion would fit the rules?
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Old 03-11-2009, 02:05 PM   #89
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Its seems a 400hp stroked smallblock is quite popular combination in getting compact HP from a V8, I recall lots of people (like blueprint etc) offering various combinations when doing a bit of research some time back.

The only trouble is, when running a pair (at 383ci/6.276L) you'd be 50 odd cc over the limit for class D.

Are all advertised 6.2 litres really 6.276 litres then ? so when looking at small block options you have to drop to the 5.7 litre ?
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Old 03-11-2009, 02:06 PM   #90
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So a Scorpion would fit the rules?
Be good to understand at this stage what is, and is not allowed, wouldn't it !
Is the scorpion not 6.3 Litre ?
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Old 03-11-2009, 02:10 PM   #91
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A 6.2 is a 377 cu in, which is 6177 cc
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Old 03-11-2009, 02:14 PM   #92
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Recall this has been dredged over before in the USA ie how good is the small block for high performance boating against the established larger cc engines Raylar always post with what seems allot of authority on this subject ... a post made on offshoreonly by the very respected Raylar ...

Both of these GM engines are in question now even for sales for car applications and even marine use will be a problem if you need the 500 ft/lbs of torque since the engines would be in boost all the time to deliver those numbers. This is the real reason Raylar & Mercury opted not to use or develop marine engines based on these smaller cubic inch supercharged engine platforms. Small cubic inch engines no matter how light in weight that can't deliver big torque numbers without boost are just small blocks of limited power and if they are in boost all the time to deliver these higher torque numbers, they are not going to live in marine high performance use no matter how COOL they look or sound!

THERE AIN'T NO REPLACEMENT FOR DISPLACEMENT!! In Boats Anyway!

This is why Raylar developed the LSM550 in a 434cu.inch size normally aspirated in an all aluminum version that is fresh water cooled and delivers over 500 ft/lbs of torque from 3800 to 5400 rpms.
This is the torque and power that is needed in performance boats and is what variable cam timing in a bigger inch aluminum small block can deliver. The only real problem for Raylar at this time with this motor is no one seems to have the money to buy new engines of this type in this economy so we'll just have to wait for the recovery?? If you've got the dollars, we've got the answer and the engine!

You guys figure out how to get a 365cubic inch or so small block to make 500ft/lbs of torque OUT OF BOOST and we'll start making them as quickly as we can!

Best Regards,
Ray @ Raylar
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Old 03-11-2009, 02:15 PM   #93
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Quote:
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Be good to understand at this stage what is, and is not allowed, wouldn't it !
Is the scorpion not 6.3 Litre ?
no. it's a 6276cc
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Old 03-11-2009, 02:15 PM   #94
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A 6.2 is a 377 cu in, which is 6177 cc
I'm going to quote you verbatim when we get protested then Tony.

Tony Davis said ...............
ML.
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Old 03-11-2009, 02:24 PM   #95
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I guess my above post relates to where people are looking to get their boats to reasonable performance levels achieved by the big block engines but using forced induction in a smaller lighter package pushing the power of the small block up with a detriment to durability

although this engines fits within the Cu inch rules ...

http://www.gm.com/experience/technol...LS3_Marine.pdf
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Old 03-11-2009, 02:32 PM   #96
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I'm going to quote you verbatim when we get protested then Tony.

Tony Davis said ...............
ML.
.
I don't have a problem with that, my shoulders are broad.



http://mercurymarine.com/_media/pdfs...r_Brochure.pdf
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Old 03-11-2009, 02:36 PM   #97
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by the very respected Raylar ...
Respected by whom, The donzi in Poole with the Raylar 496 ain't exactly setting the harbour alight.
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Old 03-11-2009, 03:07 PM   #98
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Respected by whom, The donzi in Poole with the Raylar 496 ain't exactly setting the harbour alight.
True but then they ain't gliding across the seas on an 'Extreme' bottom
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Old 03-11-2009, 05:35 PM   #99
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Just so Mike & Mike's dreams arent completely in tatters. Mercury also offer (or certainly offered) a 377ci Scorpion at 350 propshaft HP. That'd be pretty tidy against some of the twin yanmar boats.
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Old 03-11-2009, 05:44 PM   #100
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Just so Mike & Mike's dreams arent completely in tatters. Mercury also offer (or certainly offered) a 377ci Scorpion at 350 propshaft HP. That'd be pretty tidy against some of the twin yanmar boats.
That'd be a nice motor if they were competing with a Ski Nautique!
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