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Old 02-08-2008, 04:58 PM   #1
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P1 and the CTC

I have been in Asia this week after the announcement that we would be cancelling the CTC and not being one to duck an issue I wanted to explain clearly to this group why we reached the decision.

I am pleased I waited to write this post as the response of the community in re-launching the event as a club/basic race is I beleive the right solution and one that has developed during the week.

As many of the very balanced posts this week have stated objectively, we can't run a race as an Organiser, we need to do it as a business and as we are P1, any event we run will inevitably have an impact on our business and our brand.

If we go back to the basic reasons for us staging the race, there were two: to provide an event for the UK powerboating community in the absence of a UK GP; and to encourage pilot if not team recruitment for the 2009 world championship.

In all honesty, the 19 boats we had as entries would not have cut it as a P1 standard event, yes its fine for our championship over a 6nm course but a 210 nm course,,,no...... we were deep in negotiation with a title sponsor at a six figure sum which in addition to the entry fee revenues (low though that was), hospitality revenues and secondary sponsorship deals we could have made it wash it's face financially.

The sponsor's response to 19 boats ( after an extended deadline) was fairly derisory, especially as we had painted an image of Dunkirk without the baddies shooting at us.....so the financial burden was on us, we had a good quality event planned with a strong safety platform, although on decision day the safety fleet outnumbered the entries by more than 2-1....as a business we could not carry the £100,000 plus loss we would have incurred.

Nor could we have run a low key event as our guests and sponsors would have received mixed messages about what P1 stands for

I was underwhelmed by the response and frankly the lastminute.com approach to entering, lots of talk, lots of promise but in my terms too little action, too late.

Having said that I am now pleased that the entries have apparently started flooding in for the back to basic bare bones event that has been described to me in posts and mails. I think people are more comfortable with this version than a P1 managed race, possibly because they are not happy with teh Business versus Organiser issue.... if so ...fair play.

Lessons learned by us?...hindsight is a wonderful thing and our motives were honest, but we should not have mixed up P1 and a domestic event, no matter now iconic,

The RB08, rather than being a catalyst for the event seems to have sucked out the available oxegyn and resources and left entrants and boats tired and broke(n) rather than motivated to race another adventure so soon after the RB08, so I may have been niave on that one , but we live and learn.

The rumour and interpretation will rumble on, I won't respond to the dafter ones .... but I'd like to kill two comments made by a well known jounalist and one of your 'stalwarts' here.....we DID intend to run the event and no, the IPS event in Italy to whom we have loaned the European Championship title was not designed as an alternative for P1 teams, it's for Italian teams, few of whom, other than the revered Signore Buzzi, would have considered the CTC.

Our P1 teams have had a brutal season so far and few would , I beleive, want to damage boats or people 3 weeks before Vigo.

We will be returning the commercial rights formally to Maxwell Beaverbrook and the BPRC, there clearly being no strategic fit going forward.

I am delighted to read and hear of the Can-do blitz spirit that has emerged after our announcement and wish all involved every success in making the event a safe and exciting race, if we can be of any practical assistance we will .....

I have written to the many people who had helped us to thank them for their help and to express my disappointment and am pleased that many of these names have reappeared as proposed officials in the new CTC

well done to Jon F for such a speedy reaction,,,you've succeeded in galvanising people where we couldn't......,,Good luck to all involved.....
.....
Jim
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Old 02-08-2008, 06:17 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim O'Toole View Post
I was underwhelmed by the response and frankly the lastminute.com approach to entering, lots of talk, lots of promise but in my terms too little action, too late.

Having said that I am now pleased that the entries have apparently started flooding in for the back to basic bare bones event that has been described to me in posts and mails. I think people are more comfortable with this version than a P1 managed race, possibly because they are not happy with teh Business versus Organiser issue.... if so ...fair play.
Latminute.com could really be applied to yourselves and your organisers. How many times were things changed? Quite base yet vital things?

I dont think you organising it had anything to do with the low turnout. Cost might have been an issue for the bigger boats. The costs were quite high. I truly believe that the poor turnout was due the frequently changing rules and the frequently changing eligability. A lesson for everyone. Set the rules in concrete before you offer the event. Dont lead people on with promices you are simply not able to keep. Promice only what is within your control, and finally - dont offer your good name to someone else. Hands on would have helped IMNSEO!!





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well done to Jon F for such a speedy reaction,,,you've succeeded in galvanising people where we couldn't......,,Good luck to all involved.....
I think it was obvious for a while you were going to pull out. I was informed *definately* on the Saturday prior. I am sure plans were put into place by others pending your actual announcement of your withdrawel......



See you in VIGO!
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Old 02-08-2008, 08:42 PM   #3
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Thanks for the informative post Jim. I think most realise / understand the nuts & bolts of how it works, and sometimes doesn't.

Someone did mention earlier in a post about the popular British trait of late entry with things like this, it's a nightmare I know.
I spoke with a RB08 runner last week who told me was going to 'wait n see', ...maybe enter on the day, or the day before! This infuriates me, and I told him, enough people adopting that attitude will gaurantee it falling over and then along with the rest of us, you won't have the choice! HO HUM.

Will you be coming over to Cowes? if you are, I'll have a beer waiting for you at the beer tent.

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Old 02-08-2008, 09:15 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Fuller View Post
Thanks for the informative post Jim. I think most realise / understand the nuts & bolts of how it works, and sometimes doesn't.

Someone did mention earlier in a post about the popular British trait of late entry with things like this, it's a nightmare I know.
I spoke with a RB08 runner last week who told me was going to 'wait n see', ...maybe enter on the day, or the day before! This infuriates me, and I told him, enough people adopting that attitude will gaurantee it falling over and then along with the rest of us, you won't have the choice! HO HUM.

Will you be coming over to Cowes? if you are, I'll have a beer waiting for you at the beer tent.

regards


Jon
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Old 02-08-2008, 09:19 PM   #5
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marc

You and I ned to have a chat about that in vigo



Jim





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Originally Posted by verytricky View Post
Latminute.com could really be applied to yourselves and your organisers. How many times were things changed? Quite base yet vital things?

I dont think you organising it had anything to do with the low turnout. Cost might have been an issue for the bigger boats. The costs were quite high. I truly believe that the poor turnout was due the frequently changing rules and the frequently changing eligability. A lesson for everyone. Set the rules in concrete before you offer the event. Dont lead people on with promices you are simply not able to keep. Promice only what is within your control, and finally - dont offer your good name to someone else. Hands on would have helped IMNSEO!!







I think it was obvious for a while you were going to pull out. I was informed *definately* on the Saturday prior. I am sure plans were put into place by others pending your actual announcement of your withdrawel......



See you in VIGO!
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Old 02-08-2008, 09:59 PM   #6
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I truly believe that the poor turnout was due the frequently changing rules and the frequently changing eligability.
Maybe with people in your situation, but there was no reason, nor excuse for the 'dozens' of eligable Round Britain boats that failed to turn out.

I think there was quite a few hopes 'pinned' on those boats / crews being up for it.
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Old 02-08-2008, 11:29 PM   #7
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i believe it should be an event for enthusiasts not money grabbers like p1,who to be honest where taking the.......stop it
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Old 03-08-2008, 12:06 AM   #8
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but there was no reason, nor excuse for the 'dozens' of eligable Round Britain boats that failed to turn out.
I think there was quite a few hopes 'pinned' on those boats / crews being up for it.
I think they were but I can think of a thousand reasons & each has a picture of the queen on it, I was a very large expense for many not leaving a great deal for same season racing.

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i believe it should be an event for enthusiasts not money grabbers like p1,who to be honest where taking the.......stop it
Money Grabbers are the Yacht Haven, and all the others in and around cowes that vastly inflate the prices for an event
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Old 03-08-2008, 01:35 AM   #9
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P1's problem is P1!

If P1 asked me to do safety, I would expect to get paid something and have fuel paid for, tickets for the crew for the party as well. If Joe from Drivers is organising a race, we all try pitch in - P1 has the money whilst Joe has not.

The new version of Cowes-torquay-cowes will have no P1 girls, no roadshow, no 'village' that arrives with all the pomp.

That stuff is expected of P1 events, and I guess it costs a load.
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Old 03-08-2008, 06:10 AM   #10
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Money Grabbers are the Yacht Haven, and all the others in and around cowes that vastly inflate the prices for an event
The Cowes Yacht Haven have just done us a fantastic deal and have been hugely supportive of the CTC race otherwise we would never have been able to have the WHOLE of the North Basin for the race boats and support boats. MOST of the hard standing for Trucks, Trailers and the Crane plus the Media Centre for Press and Race Control AND the Restaurant as the bar and for briefing. No money grabbing there and we are all hugely grateful. It will all make for a great weekend.
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Old 03-08-2008, 07:02 AM   #11
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Don't really wanna keep going over this, as I think some of us just have to agree to disagree...But, in general, the boats that attracted a high entry fee (1k or so) would be expecting to burn in the region of twice that in fuel, for this race alone. If those people are bleating about the race entry cost, I would suggest the first thing they should do is downsize, at least their engines, to something they can afford, rather than expecting everyone else to reduce costs so they can take part..

If you choose to play in that arena, it's costly, in all ways.

If your budget allows a Tencara + Lambo's, you can probably afford the fuel (and the entry fee). if it allows a Phantom 16 + Yamaha 90........ you probably need to be in the Phantom 16/90 Yam class. go figure.


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I think they were but I can think of a thousand reasons & each has a picture of the queen on it, I was a very large expense for many not leaving a great deal for same season racing.
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Old 05-08-2008, 03:15 PM   #12
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In reply to Jim

Sorry, a bit late on this post in reply to Jim but here goes.

I understand that P1 is now dedicated to making a “professional” series, and that the owner of P1 wants to have a boat racing series to emulate Formula 1 car racing.

All good in theory, but it has not happened in the last forty years, and I am sceptical whether it will happen in the next forty.

So using that “thought process”, we are left with amateur competitors, racing in events run by amateur organisers.

The main fault of P1 was that it did not understand the culture of the sport in this country, let alone work alongside it.

I understand very well the pressure of earning a “six figure salary”, where near instantaneous results must be “pulled out of the bag”, finances must be looked after etc.

Whilst doing a similar tough job, I always sought advice, from above and below.

I do not think that P1 did this.

The press release issued last Monday evening, was unforgivable.

“Powerboat P1, the commercial rights holder to the Cowes-Torquay-Cowes race, has announced with sadness its decision to cancel the event as a result of insufficient entries.”

Why on earth didn't you allow the BPRC at least 24 hours notice before that was blasted over the news wires?

Now over a week after the announcement, and things are moving on.

Mike Lloyd is in the driving seat, and the rest of the back room team are doing their jobs unpaid and to the best of their abilities.

Perhaps food for thought in the future?
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Old 05-08-2008, 06:03 PM   #13
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I would like to know how many P1 boats had entered ?

Why didn't they enter ?

Why are there more entries now?

Entree fee explained in more detail. If you pay more to enter and i understand it is expensive to organise such an event possible give a little back ie Extra pit passes, tickets to any functions, Cheap hospitality tickets for a P1 event ( may entice more P1 competitors for the future ) Etc.

May be more discussion and information may help

By the way i am a big fan of P1
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Old 05-08-2008, 06:22 PM   #14
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I'm glad you're a fan, let me address your comments

with respect I think you're missing the point, the event was not organised for p1 teams, it was aimed at team and driver recruitment and at providing the anticipated target audience ( the uk powerboating community ) with the opportunity to particpate in this race.....


Our boats are in the middle of a brutal season, competitive racing is damaging boats and exhauting pilots. I don't blame then for not entering boats that still have 3 races to go, 2 of which are in September, with championship points and performance bonds at risk.


you will see people like vee and martin lai enter but I suspect in Ribs not their p1 boats

The fact that the entry levels soared, despite the entry deadline being pushed back, after our tells me that the entries where there, but people were either relieved we weren't running it, more comfortable being among enthusiasts all in it together, rather than a perceived P1 level.

Our partners in the planning of this race were the bprc and the rya, the voice of british powerboating, we consulted with them on every aspect of the race, their race, their rules, their guidance, their reccomendations on rules, classes, entry prices, course design safety cover etc etc....s I don't accept a comment about a lack of consultation and ndiscussion.

I think the racers are now in a more comfortable place costs wise, reading various posts and PM s that I've had confirm this

we did offer a good party package and any new teams were incentivised with the return of their ctc entry fees.

Respect you opinions, but needed to clarify some points

Jim


Quote:
Originally Posted by hunton69 View Post
I would like to know how many P1 boats had entered ?

Why didn't they enter ?

Why are there more entries now?

Entree fee explained in more detail. If you pay more to enter and i understand it is expensive to organise such an event possible give a little back ie Extra pit passes, tickets to any functions, Cheap hospitality tickets for a P1 event ( may entice more P1 competitors for the future ) Etc.

May be more discussion and information may help

By the way i am a big fan of P1
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Old 05-08-2008, 06:39 PM   #15
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All good in theory, but it has not happened in the last forty years, and I am sceptical whether it will happen in the next forty.

Given that you have 40-50 years more experience than me I'll respect this opinion


So using that “thought process”, we are left with amateur competitors, racing in events run by amateur organisers.

The main fault of P1 was that it did not understand the culture of the sport in this country, let alone work alongside it.

I respectfully submit that the culture of the sport in this country is exactly why we are in this position and why we are left with amateur competitors, racing in events run by amateur organisers.


I understand very well the pressure of earning a “six figure salary”, where near instantaneous results must be “pulled out of the bag”, finances must be looked after etc.


your use of quote marks is bloody annoying, just make a point without doing this,it deflects from what you are saying, but welcome to my world of managing a business, not a passion......your hobby is our livelihood

Whilst doing a similar tough job, I always sought advice, from above and below.

I do not think that P1 did this.

You're wrong....you were not part of the project team and were not privy to the discussions that went on


The press release issued last Monday evening, was unforgivable.

“Powerboat P1, the commercial rights holder to the Cowes-Torquay-Cowes race, has announced with sadness its decision to cancel the event as a result of insufficient entries.”

Why on earth didn't you allow the BPRC at least 24 hours notice before that was blasted over the news wires?

Rubbish , you silly man , what the hell are you talking about? I must have imagined those discussions, the extended entry deadlines, potential repercussions and drafts of releases that went to the bprc (guess what , we do have an ounce of professional courtesy)

Now over a week after the announcement, and things are moving on.

Mike Lloyd is in the driving seat, and the rest of the back room team are doing their jobs unpaid and to the best of their abilities.

God bless'em all


Perhaps food for thought in the future?

exactly!, I think we'll all learn a lot about the different levels of powerboating in the Uk and the requirements that different people have from their sport


A final point, the recurring theme of P1 the business versus the amateur events run by organisers is the key point..there is a place for both..your clear personal relish for the amataeur scenario tells me where you come from..

rgds

Jim
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Old 05-08-2008, 07:11 PM   #16
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John, I'm a bit disapointed that you feel the need to drag this up again and harp on about it, this all happened a week ago now, it's water under the bridge and more importantly, I'm really not sure what you hope to achieve from your post, other than to drive a wedge firmly between P1 and UK powerboating.

Can we let it drop please.
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Old 05-08-2008, 07:31 PM   #17
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Thank you for your reply Jim

As you say the P1 boats are in the middle of a brutal season,well most of the RB8 boat raced as much if not more in one race than your guys this season.

Some boats i guess are still busted including ours. ( new motor going in this week so was never going to pay the fees untill i new we would be race ready. Seperate issue but to get boats rigged over he is )

I did ring your office twice

All the RB8 teams spent a small fortune and i think you will find most are not rich. So funds i believe could be a factor for this year.

I would love to race under the P1 umbrellar

I hope that we can merge the amature side and the Pro side in the future to make some brilliant racing maybe next year
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Old 05-08-2008, 08:12 PM   #18
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All the RB8 teams spent a small fortune
you rb8 lot must be well off that would be a large fortune for me
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Old 05-08-2008, 09:58 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by ciao!
All good in theory, but it has not happened in the last forty years, and I am sceptical whether it will happen in the next forty.

Given that you have 40-50 years more experience than me I'll respect this opinion
So using that “thought process”, we are left with amateur competitors, racing in events run by amateur organisers.

The main fault of P1 was that it did not understand the culture of the sport in this country, let alone work alongside it.

I respectfully submit that the culture of the sport in this country is exactly why we are in this position and why we are left with amateur competitors, racing in events run by amateur organisers.
I understand very well the pressure of earning a “six figure salary”, where near instantaneous results must be “pulled out of the bag”, finances must be looked after etc.


your use of quote marks is bloody annoying, just make a point without doing this,it deflects from what you are saying, but welcome to my world of managing a business, not a passion......your hobby is our livelihoodWhilst doing a similar tough job, I always sought advice, from above and below.

I do not think that P1 did this.

You're wrong....you were not part of the project team and were not privy to the discussions that went on
The press release issued last Monday evening, was unforgivable.

“Powerboat P1, the commercial rights holder to the Cowes-Torquay-Cowes race, has announced with sadness its decision to cancel the event as a result of insufficient entries.”

Why on earth didn't you allow the BPRC at least 24 hours notice before that was blasted over the news wires?

Rubbish , you silly man , what the hell are you talking about? I must have imagined those discussions, the extended entry deadlines, potential repercussions and drafts of releases that went to the bprc (guess what , we do have an ounce of professional courtesy)

Now over a week after the announcement, and things are moving on.

Mike Lloyd is in the driving seat, and the rest of the back room team are doing their jobs unpaid and to the best of their abilities.

God bless'em all
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Old 05-08-2008, 10:18 PM   #20
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Jim

Just watched P1 on Sky tonight and nearly chucked my bottle of beer at the TV. Great boats, great racing, great spectacle but can some please shoot the commentator.

Every time he said "boo-e" instead of buoy by blood levels increased and I had to check his pronunciation of the boats as none of them seemed to resemble the ones I thought were racing.

Cheers and keep up the good work

Mark
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