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26-06-2010, 11:01 PM
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#41
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Registered User
Country: UK
Location: Plymouth
Occupation: Driving people mad
Boat name: The Rock - 66
Boat make: Doug Wright 32
Engines: Merc EFI 280s
Cruising area: Middle East
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Plymouth
Posts: 449
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichA (Lamont)
OK, let me try and get this right.....
Neil Holmes offers a Racing Driver Improvement course, which he has defined and which he feels will improve the ability of a racing driver to drive. You either like him or you dont. Some people swear by him, others at him.
This is not the instruction envisioned by the RYA.
The RYA looks at a course of training and an assessment which determines if you are a safe driver or navigator who can be safe at the event. Things like how to behave at muster, how to start following the start boat, how to behave at turn marks, how to overtake, what to do when retiring from a race etc etc etc. None of that will make you a better race driver or navigator. It will make you a safer driver or navigator, and the club signing you off states that you meet the minimum standard of safety for an event.
To become a better racer with a different technique you go take lessons from someone like Neil Holmes. Currently I think he is the only established person/company who does this race improvement training.
So they are different things - with different intents.
Neil Holmes can give you tips, training and techniques to improve your racing.
A club powerboat training officer (Dave Simpkins?) can sign you off for racing after assessing your competance.
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Go away...!
I had a nice day racing until I read this nonsense!
BUT...People in powerboatning UK are really dogged off and I think the RYA needs to get a grip, stop conflicts of interest take control of the situation...
Racers get fed up with people making money out of them , they want well organised racing and less self interest...know what I mean?
I have heard shocking stories today....
There needs to be a common sense approach to racing and not knee jurk reaction. There needs to be structure and there needs to be motivation not barriers!
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27-06-2010, 08:49 AM
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#42
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numbskull
Country: United Kingdom
Location: South
Occupation: none
Interests: none
Boat name: Leviathan
Boat make: Phantom 28
Cruising area: South Coast
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: South
Posts: 15,942
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I'm no fan of Marc Lamont, but what he said is I believe exactly what the RYA want from their compulsory 'training'. So he has only stated some fairly obvious details. so why is it nonsense?
I don't like the red tape, or any of the other obstacles that seem to be getting in the way of racing, but I guess a minimum level of competence as far as safety on the course goes, won't be a bad thing, after all, there have always been some fairly shocking seamanship moments around racing, often from people who are quite capable/quick in a race situation, but around the start, in the marina etc, etc, can be dreadfull, especially in close quarters boat handling & manouvering.
JMHO
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__________________
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"I Agree with everything you say really!" - John Cooke to Jon Fuller - 26-01-2013
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27-06-2010, 01:10 PM
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#43
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The Doc
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 8,283
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Fuller
blah b;ah blah ....... but what he said is I believe exactly what the RYA want from their compulsory 'training'. So he has only stated some fairly obvious details. so why is it nonsense?
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I'm glad you said that, I thought Marc was spot on
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27-06-2010, 01:51 PM
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#44
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Registered User
Occupation: Very stressful - enough said!
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 21
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You wouldn't let your 17 year old child get into a car and expect them to trot off down the motorway, parallel park, or manage rush hour in town so why is it such a bad thing having compulsory training to go out in a race boat? Personally I think everyone should have to do some sort of basic course before heading out....especially the rag and stick brigade but that's probably another forum altogether!
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27-06-2010, 04:46 PM
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#45
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Registered User
Country: uk
Location: cornwall
Occupation: princess yachts
Interests: power boats
Boat name: voodoo ,enforcer,assagai
Boat make: ring 21c ,frode 25 , class 2 cat assagai 46 pre
Engines: yam 200hp ,4 v8 cats, , 280 efi
Cruising area: saltash/plymouth sound
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: cornwall
Posts: 723
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Thanks rich g for a good weekends racing 67 with 30 stone in her not bad for a honda boat. I woud have one LOVELY BOATS
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27-06-2010, 06:46 PM
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#46
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Registered User
Country: UK
Location: Plymouth
Occupation: Driving people mad
Boat name: The Rock - 66
Boat make: Doug Wright 32
Engines: Merc EFI 280s
Cruising area: Middle East
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Plymouth
Posts: 449
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gmc
Thanks rich g for a good weekends racing 67 with 30 stone in her not bad for a honda boat. I woud have one LOVELY BOATS
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No probs Johnny old bean. You were brill and i forgot to let you drive when we went testing. Have a load of charity rides soon so fancy a drive out then?
Great day and as usual a great bunch of enthusiastic people.
Thanks to all the organisers too....
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27-06-2010, 07:46 PM
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#47
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..
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,563
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scream-it.com
Great day and as usual a great bunch of enthusiastic people.
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And how big was that Trophy ... was good to catch up .. see ya soon
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27-06-2010, 09:39 PM
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#48
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Senior Member
Country: UK
Location: Devon
Occupation: Garage Proprietor
Interests: PowerBoat Racing
Boat name: If Only
Boat make: Bernico F3 OCR, Bernico Prototype Inboard, and some Ribs
Engines: Yamaha Pro V 115
Cruising area: UK, France
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Devon
Posts: 3,094
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D~OOD
With a Yachtmaster as well, can't he be assessed in the raceboat before racing at the event by a powerboat training officer - like Dave Simpkins?
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Yes !! Or Me as I am an approved Training Officer !! If they have a satisfactory CV OR Level 2 then I can train them either at an event prior to racing or Prior to an event by appointment.
And anyway I think we had an excellent weekend in Plymouth !! It was a shame that any potential newcomers were again put off by mis-information !!
But whats new there.
Bob
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If Only
National Outboard Immersed Propeller Mono Record 103mph
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27-06-2010, 10:03 PM
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#49
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Aged Member
Country: UK
Location: HAMPSHIRE
Occupation: Safety Engineering
Boat name: Savannah
Boat make: Princess 415
Engines: Volvos
Cruising area: SOLENT
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: HAMPSHIRE
Posts: 778
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Yep...Great weekend racin....great weather...
Thanks to Steve and Roy...good job as always...after a sticky start on saturday it all went really well...
Launch teams and safety crews did good too, hope you didnt get too fried..
see you all at LA in a fortnight.
Dave S
__________________
Land was invented to give boats somewhere to visit
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27-06-2010, 11:59 PM
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#50
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v24 rocks
Country: uk
Location: littlehampton
Boat name: bat out of hell, tooti fruty
Cruising area: LA
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: littlehampton
Posts: 350
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We at V24 like to a big thank you to Bob and is team good raceing and to my
Mark dip strick V24rocks
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28-06-2010, 07:49 AM
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#51
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Registered User
Country: UK
Location: Plymouth
Occupation: Driving people mad
Boat name: The Rock - 66
Boat make: Doug Wright 32
Engines: Merc EFI 280s
Cruising area: Middle East
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Plymouth
Posts: 449
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lil devil
You wouldn't let your 17 year old child get into a car and expect them to trot off down the motorway, parallel park, or manage rush hour in town so why is it such a bad thing having compulsory training to go out in a race boat? Personally I think everyone should have to do some sort of basic course before heading out....especially the rag and stick brigade but that's probably another forum altogether!
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Quite agree on boat handling skills - especially for drivers but my point is about structure and the experience of those training. OR are we talking about 'attitude' and specific rules of racing?
Is there a syllabus?
The nonsense bit refers to general race training reference specific boats and safety in racing. This can only be gained by allowing people to race. The problem at the moment is the amount of people (especially in circuit racing is diminishing fast and all that seems to happening is that there are more barriers in the way and the cost is rising ???? How does that work. Is this sport not goverened by basic laws of supply and demand or does it think that it can rely on sugar daddies?
Safety is a huge thing now in XCAT following the death last year and in Class 1. The Sheiks have said: 1 more death in Dubai and there will be no racing and ther WPPA have taken fast action in technical terms. They wont like me for poitning this out but they acted quickly and effectively.
Here in circuit racing the costs need to be reduced not increased and rookies need to be kept either behind or on the outside of the line. If they have attitude they will soon get the wroth of the officials in the form of penalties and fines. In Xcat if you take out a buoy it costs 1500 euros if you break any rule there is no protest just a fine! You have to take it on the chin as I said to dear old Phil yesterday and trus the officials to manage the sport...unless of course they are biased and ruled by their leader for commercial reasons (whoops I nearly fell back into Honda!).
A common sense approach. Encouraging people to drive from Looe to take an expensive training session with Neil Holmes is in the world of cheque book racing!!
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28-06-2010, 10:12 AM
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#52
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Registered User
Country: UK
Location: london
Occupation: Powerboat Skipper
Interests: Boats , bikes!
Boat name: Renegade
Boat make: GPV-RENEGADE
Engines: 150 HO etec
Cruising area: Thames, south coast, anywhere!
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: london
Posts: 2,327
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Sticking my neck on the line here. But I totally understand that rookies may need some help but I have seen so called seasoned racers who could do with training too. I think anyone racing should be liable for penalties and told to have a training session If their driving is unsatisfactory.
__________________
Im re branding pepper spray as Arsehole Repellant.im going to make a fortune.
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28-06-2010, 11:12 AM
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#53
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Senior Member
Country: UK
Location: Devon
Occupation: Garage Proprietor
Interests: PowerBoat Racing
Boat name: If Only
Boat make: Bernico F3 OCR, Bernico Prototype Inboard, and some Ribs
Engines: Yamaha Pro V 115
Cruising area: UK, France
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Devon
Posts: 3,094
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Renegade
Sticking my neck on the line here. But I totally understand that rookies may need some help but I have seen so called seasoned racers who could do with training too. I think anyone racing should be liable for penalties and told to have a training session If their driving is unsatisfactory.
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Check out new PB1 !! Plenty of penalties !! Its probably 1min for farting in the pits !!
Yes you are probably right that if say someone gets a Red Card or even too many yellow ones then they may need a retrain.
Unfortunately its a bit like driving a car where you learn and learn until you pass a test and then you learn how to drive !!
And then how do you tell someone that they need training every race because the rules have changed.
Bob
__________________
If Only
National Outboard Immersed Propeller Mono Record 103mph
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28-06-2010, 12:26 PM
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#54
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Registered User
Country: UK
Location: london
Occupation: Powerboat Skipper
Interests: Boats , bikes!
Boat name: Renegade
Boat make: GPV-RENEGADE
Engines: 150 HO etec
Cruising area: Thames, south coast, anywhere!
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: london
Posts: 2,327
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Fair point bob. Not got a new pb1 for this year but as you say hard to govern things and get some stabillity when rules are changed. Paul.
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Im re branding pepper spray as Arsehole Repellant.im going to make a fortune.
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28-06-2010, 12:30 PM
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#55
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Registered User
Country: uk
Location: poole
Occupation: retail
Interests: sport and being lazy
Boat make: ring rib
Engines: merc xr2
Cruising area: bournemouth bay
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: poole
Posts: 1,681
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Was their a better turnout than expected at the weekend and out of interest anyone got the results ... Pic's
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i can na give her any more captain
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28-06-2010, 01:22 PM
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#56
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..
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,563
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cfun
Was their a better turnout than expected at the weekend and out of interest anyone got the results ... Pic's
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Only the faithfull few attended ...
3C
1st C11 - Ian & Adrian
2nd C13 - Brian & Dave
3rd C9 - Frank & Lee
V24
1st - V3
2nd - V2
3rd - V8
OCR
1st - A29
2nd - A9
3rd - A13
+ A7 / A11 / A19
BASIC
Honda 225 (debra/scream-it)
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28-06-2010, 01:29 PM
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#57
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Aged Member
Country: UK
Location: HAMPSHIRE
Occupation: Safety Engineering
Boat name: Savannah
Boat make: Princess 415
Engines: Volvos
Cruising area: SOLENT
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: HAMPSHIRE
Posts: 778
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Foolish
Only the faithfull few attended ...
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And the ones on crutches...to be fair....
__________________
Land was invented to give boats somewhere to visit
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28-06-2010, 02:41 PM
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#58
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Registered User
Country: England
Location: Cowes
Occupation: Marine engineer
Interests: Anthing that goes fast
Boat name: Offshore Monkey Business
Boat make: Buzzi 32
Engines: Grimes 1050
Cruising area: Solent
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Cowes
Posts: 116
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Had a great weekends racing, thanks to everyone involved.
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28-06-2010, 04:12 PM
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#59
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BananaShark Member
Country: UK
Location: Salcombe South Devon
Occupation: Racer and builder
Interests: Winning races
Boat name: BananaShark
Boat make: BananaShark 34' Race
Engines: Twin Yanmar BY 260's
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Salcombe South Devon
Posts: 4,633
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DAVE
And the ones on crutches...to be fair....
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And her little sister's on crutches as well!
Sorry I missed you Dave! Good to catch up with a few familiar faces .........
__________________
Cookee
British Champions! RIB Formula 1 2005
National Speed Record Holder at 90.15 (still)
www.bananasharkracing.com
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28-06-2010, 04:44 PM
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#60
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Registered User
Country: gibraltar
Location: gibraltar
Occupation: Shop Proprietor
Interests: ocr,sleeping
Boat name: The Rock
Boat make: Phantom 19XL
Engines: Yamaha 130B
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: gibraltar
Posts: 331
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gmc
Thanks rich g for a good weekends racing 67 with 30 stone in her not bad for a honda boat. I woud have one LOVELY BOATS
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Only 67, any of the Bernicos on OCR will do that on a flat race ,
Rich u defo need some RYA training
cooolaii
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