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Old 01-09-2005, 09:17 AM   #21
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You only have to browse these pages and see that overall the rank and file are none to happy with the RYA & it's charging. It's core business is YACHTING hence the name. There is a big hint there guys.
IMHO there should be a uk equivalant of the US APA.

Lets say BPA (British Powerboat Assoc) this would be the controlling body. as for the UIM they just want the money & if the BPA had the membership, licence holders, ect they would be welcome in to the fold and affiliation at some future date. After the mandatory We are going to sulk period, coz we've been throwing teddies out of the pram. Coz races dont want what we offer any more.

At the end of the day it has to be run as a Business. Anydoby out there in Business will you tell you. gotta keep em happy coz they will walk if not.

Yes the RYA do a lot of work but is it really what the races wanna see. half of it is behined closed doors with no public updates. Maybe thats the problem . one of communication & information.


EDIT:
Somebody wanna do it ,I be ya 1st member
(COZ Adam still ain't e mailed me the ORDA M'ship )
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Old 01-09-2005, 09:37 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by Adam
I think mostpeople would be surprised at how much work the RYA do - and how difficult it would be to set-up a structure to re-place it. I would also imagine that the finances to do so just would not stack-up either.
OK, surprise me! What exactly do the RYA do? Serious question.

It's clear from the little that I saw behind the scenes at Cowes at the weekend that there is a lot of work involved in running races, but it's not rocket science. Why shouldn't any decent event organiser do it, so long as they had some experienced input?

Simplifying the whole race organisation can only make it easier and cheaper to run. Breaking away from the RYA would need a decent chunk of cash to get going, but it's not beyond the realm of possibilty that there may be a few people willing and able to bankroll it in the short term. In the long term it should pay its way, as I don't believe for one moment that the RYA is subsidising powerboat racing.
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At the same time there does need to be serious change and costs have got to come down. Basic racing seems to have potential for this. However there are many issues to consider. I believe we need to stay with the RYA - but push as hard as we can for change.
Other than serious sponsorship and major TV coverage (don't hold your breath!) the only ways to bring prices down are to reduce costs, and to spread the costs over a bigger field of entrants.
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Out of interest - and please be realistic - what do people think is a viable entry fee to compete in a race meeting? Do teams want cranes and security at race meetings? How many races per meeting / weekend?
I don't think anyone knows what a realistic price is, because (as far as I am aware) the accounts aren't made public. What does it cost to put on a race weekend?

What items are essential? Craning and security has to be a given, but what else is needed/wanted?

What are the current entry fees? What other costs are involved (licence, measurement cert etc)?
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Old 01-09-2005, 09:39 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by BluFin
Lets say BPA (British Powerboat Assoc) this would be the controlling body. as for the UIM they just want the money & if the BPA had the membership, licence holders, ect they would be welcome in to the fold and affiliation at some future date.
What relevance does the UIM have for a purely UK race series? Genuine question!
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Old 01-09-2005, 11:23 AM   #24
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The RYA is pretty important in bringing together the International classes - and the department covers circuit racing, OCR, Hydroplane racing etc. So the UIM is relevant to quite a few people. True many racers in UK are not interested in UIM issues though.

From there the RYA (with much volunteer support) organises many departments looking at Tech / saftery issues, course planning, provides legal help etc. This is unfortuantely true at the moment with the unfortuante accident in kids class.

Not like me to be defending the RYA so much - but they do a lot of work.

I think our main problem is that our sport is definately amateur- but needs a professional management / organisation.

All for now as got to get some work done!
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Old 02-09-2005, 01:59 PM   #25
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RYA

What you guys have to remeber is that the RYA have been doing it for quite a long time, (enc pics of my Grandfather's licences from 1964/65).
I happen to know that they don't make any money from powerboat raing and that every year there is a budget defecit that has to be made up from general funds.
The main problem is twofold: lack of racers and insurance: more racers so the load gets spread. Every year the RYA makes an assumption on the number of racers and their likely income versus expenditure, they then set the licence fees from this, low numbers of licence holders means individual charges go up. Simple as that. Any breakaway organisation will have to seriously consider this fact and I personally wouldn't recommend it.
Insurance underwriters who will look at racing are also very few and far between, the choice will probably be limited to only one or two.
Love em or loathe em we are stuck with the "IRA" !

P.S Plenty of people, (inc me), put a lot of time into the sport, for free, to try to get around this situation and make it better. There isn't a simple solution ...
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Old 02-09-2005, 03:35 PM   #26
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OK here's my two penny worth - Hope I havn't evervalued my contribution!

Facts

The RYA are needed for thier admin and insurance.

Someone is needed to organise the races.

Someone is needed to promote the sport and the events.

My Solution

The sport needs a promoter to organise events properly, no cockups, lots of glamour and glitz and ruled with a rod of iron so that we don't get problems like V24 had as soon as there was some cash up for grabs.

In return the promoter gets the series rights for a fixed period, including all marketing, advertising and TV rights. It would be the promoters job to encourage people into the sport with incentives such as start money, prize money etc.

Honda do it.

Zapcats do it.

Thundercats do it.

P1 has grown from a tired endurance series to a growing series in a very short time just because a good promoter has got involved and rebadged it.

Now all we need is a promoter with big a enough cajones to take the job on!

Any volunteers?

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Old 02-09-2005, 03:43 PM   #27
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Old 02-09-2005, 03:45 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jon Fuller
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Trouble is would anyone actually listen to him - anyway I'm not convinced he's got big cajones ............ just a feckin thick skin!
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Old 02-09-2005, 03:50 PM   #29
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Rory Power for RYA powerboat manager.
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Old 02-09-2005, 03:52 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally posted by Matt
Rory Power for RYA powerboat manager.
I'd go for that
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Old 02-09-2005, 06:09 PM   #31
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Do you think Rory would? There's only so much flack one person can take!
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Old 02-09-2005, 06:11 PM   #32
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He's proven to have pretty broad shoulders so far!
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Old 02-09-2005, 06:23 PM   #33
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A long time ago, the Royal Motor Yacht Club was the national authority for powerboat racing. No-one can remember why it lost/ gave up the role to the RYA. Possibly because other clubs felt that the NA should not be organising events of its own.

Something to come to light during the RMYC Centenary research is that in 1908 it organised the only ever Powerboat Olympics! Under the aegis of the IOC.
Not much detail but the course was in the Solent and all racing was cancelled due to high winds & rough seas.....
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Old 02-09-2005, 06:36 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally posted by Safety
Not much detail but the course was in the Solent and all racing was cancelled due to high winds & rough seas.....
James, firstly, welcome to Boatmad!!


with respect to the cancelled Olympics, this will undoubtably be because RIBs didn't exist in those days

sorry, couldn't help myself
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Old 03-09-2005, 07:14 AM   #35
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Re: RYA

Quote:
Originally posted by pennpromo
I happen to know that they don't make any money from powerboat raing and that every year there is a budget defecit that has to be made up from general funds.
You seem very certain about that, and you've clearly been around a bit.

How do you know that this is the case though? Are the figures published anywhere?
Quote:
The main problem is twofold: lack of racers and insurance: more racers so the load gets spread. Every year the RYA makes an assumption on the number of racers and their likely income versus expenditure, they then set the licence fees from this, low numbers of licence holders means individual charges go up. Simple as that.
Insisting on using an annual licence fee to meet costs is raising the barrier to entry, so its a vicious circle. Far better if it could be negotiated on a "per entry" system.
Quote:
Insurance underwriters who will look at racing are also very few and far between, the choice will probably be limited to only one or two.
Whereas you're currently limited to just one -- whoever the RYA choses!
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Old 03-09-2005, 07:29 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally posted by Cookee
OK here's my two penny worth - Hope I havn't evervalued my contribution!

Facts

The RYA are needed for thier admin and insurance.
That's not a fact. That's an opinion.

Someone is needed for admin and insurance. It may be that the RYA is the best organisation for the job, but there may be a better option out there.
Quote:
The sport needs a promoter to organise events properly, no cockups, lots of glamour and glitz and ruled with a rod of iron so that we don't get problems like V24 had as soon as there was some cash up for grabs.

In return the promoter gets the series rights for a fixed period, including all marketing, advertising and TV rights. It would be the promoters job to encourage people into the sport with incentives such as start money, prize money etc.
I'm not convinced that this is the right way to approach it. Concentrating on glitz and glamour and mythical TV rights is a superficial tactic, that is unlikely to help in the end.

The sport needs to get the basics right first, then the glitz and glamour might come back in due course.

Quote:
P1 has grown from a tired endurance series to a growing series in a very short time just because a good promoter has got involved and rebadged it.
. . . and as far as I know, the RYA has no involvement whatsoever. They're certainly not credited on the P1 web site as far as I can see.
Quote:
Now all we need is a promoter with big a enough cajones to take the job on!
My guess is that unless there is a complete overhaul of the way the whole sport is administered any attempt by a promoter would be unlikely to succeed in the long term.
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Old 04-09-2005, 10:20 AM   #37
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Thanks for your reply Jonny ........

You're right - it's my opinion we need the RYA for the admin and insurance, but for someone to finance the setting up of all that overnight would be a huge task, so for now at least, I believe they are the only option.


What do you think are wrong with the basics? Other than running an event properly I don't see a problem - the races have been progressively been made more spectator friendly, and with more boats and maybe more races to give a fuller programme over a weekend I think it could be great as is. If you add in some stuff to keep the crowds amused between races like we had in Gibralter like jet ski demos, and maybe even bikini competitions, it would bring lots more people in!

P1 is an International series, so presumably runs under the UIM, I would think that the RYA would have some input as far as the UK race is concerned, and look how many disqualifications happened there ......... looking forward to the TV coverage of Cowes!

My opinion that the overhaul of the sport needs to be something like the Offshore 2000 series that was run by Charles Burnett and the Pascoes, the only thing that, for instance Honda are doing is the one design concept, thier race weekends are very similar to OCR and Offshore, but with more incentives!

If you talk to TV producers, they want stuff that looks good on TV, and right or wrong glamour and glitz fits the bill, and without TV coverage sponsors and competitors arn't interested in the sort of numbers required to make the sport a success ............... in my opinion!
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Old 02-10-2005, 07:40 PM   #38
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One thing over looked here re-RYA, without the beloved insignia most harbour masters would not permit events in their waters and the MCA, who also have a say in, would not probably entertain it either. So the either love them or hate them the letters 'RYA' carry a lot of weight with the authorities...
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Old 02-10-2005, 07:41 PM   #39
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Old 02-10-2005, 09:36 PM   #40
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Quote:
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One thing over looked here re-RYA, without the beloved insignia most harbour masters would not permit events in their waters and the MCA, who also have a say in, would not probably entertain it either. So the either love them or hate them the letters 'RYA' carry a lot of weight with the authorities...
Are you sure of that?

Some places have specifically been helpful *because* the harbourmaster or local important people are pushing the events, not because of the RYA insignia..

The Deauville ralley got permission to travel 30 miles an hour under towerbridge all the way to the PLA limits, *guided* by the PLA master, and not a RYA flag in sight. I think the event sells, and if done correctly the event will go ahead. The RYA flag *may* assist, but I really dont think so.
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