Rules 1, Competitor nil!

[Jon Fuller]

Well, Jamie Edwards was managing 80mph in the RB08 at times, as was Toby C & Roy. we managed a best of 58mph, Gordon Compton, under 50mph!

Darren Hook with two 300's must see the other side of 80 in his Revenger in I think C class, Sunseeker XS2000, low/mid 70's?
I know Scott couldn't catch Darren in the South Coast Marathon last year, however hard he tried and when it flattened off, Darren was off like a shot. that event was a big part of why Scott sold the XS. He knew he couldn't catch the quicker sprint boats & didn't like it.

I would think a similar boat to Darren Hooks, or indeed a P28 with XS250's, would do 75+, Hot lemon (very competitive diesel) does 64mph Were is the dissadvantage to OB's?

I will admit that minimum weights have been imposed since RB08 and we'll have to see how that actually affects the OB's in practice, maybe Cowes this year will give a clearer picture. I still think they'll fly when conditions allow.

[Adam]

I think you have got frightened by a few examples of calm weather legs. You have listed examples of short / light weight boats set up for calm weather and as you have said many times RB08 was actually pretty kind on weather.

So where were the outboard boats in the overall results? Thats what counts afterall.

I'm also sure it would be possible to make a lot quicker diesel boats than you listed - if top end speed was what was really the most important characteristic.

[Jon Fuller]

Short / lightweight!! na, I think 28' is a pretty average size for E class, and 32 the same for D.
Remember, ours is a very large boat for E, but that was our choice. And when the classes get up to C and above, we're expecting big boats.

So you think the rules should be such, that OB's have the speed advantage over IB's in the calm, but also be 'as capable' in the rough? that doesn't sound fair to me. I can go with a horses for courses deal, but that aint horses for courses. Sounds like you think the horse for all courses should have OB's. Most of the stuff you design / sell has OB's doesn't it?

The thing is, the various sizes available in OBs (power / CC etc) define where one can draw the lines in the sand. multiples of these units are not always easy to serve up with the ideal overal / combined power package. you try it (without giving a huge advantage to OBs)
I still think they're reasonably fair.

Overall results... where did Darren Hook come last year in the rough 200 mile Cowes event? 4th overall, or was it 3rd. Not bad me thinks for a *short / light boat* against the might of Cinzano, Hannes, etc in their 5 ton monsters with 1000's of hp ( in classes above him). The boat you ran in RB08 would I believe have done very well last year at that rough Cowes race (if you had a different co driver )

[Jon Fuller]

As a guide, a P28 in D class with OBs would need to weigh 1600 KGs, I think it would most likely weigh more than that dry, so the weight limit can't be far out. The same boat as an IB setup would have to weigh 2150 KGs. Difference seems fair to me. Over half a ton advantage to the OBs.

As an E class boat, the P28 would need to weigh UNDER 1500 KGs with OBs, again, doesn't seem heavy to me, and an IB version would need to weigh 2100 KGs

[blind dog]

cruiser g it is then ,the engines fit dont they ?and the boat fitted for rb08 and ctc

[Jon Fuller]

With respect to Scotts issue this year, I would ask for dispensation on the grounds that although they're above the allowed capacity, they're only stock 225's. I can't imagine anyone would object. (as long as they stay stock)

The minimum length issue needs fixing permanently, as that's broken.

So, Scott, I would ask for dispensation to run the 3 litre motors in D class, and I will contact Barrie & Co and try to help get the Min length sorted for D.

[Jon Fuller]

Originally Posted by blind dog

cruiser g it is then ,the engines fit dont they ?and the boat fitted for rb08 and ctc

I guess so, However, to conform, it should weigh 3300 KG's and have a beam of 7'6" which might not suite the narrow, relatively light P28, but I suppose the grandfather thing might get you through there.

But wouldn't you like a pop at Mike Deacon in class? I reckon with dispensation on the motors for this year, and the length rule fixed, that'd be a better race for you.

[blind dog]

yeah for sure,im trying to look at it all from both sides and fairly

[Captain Chaos]

I measured the beam on scotts and it fits the length/beam equation for "G" by a whisker (all be it the correct side of that whisker).

I think dispensation in "D" for this year/ the cowes event would be a fantastic compromise. It means the rules wouldnt change and allow the next owner/team along to try and deliberately exploit the gap made for older 3.0L merc based stuff to run, but would show some willing on the part of the TWG/Event team/RYA to get the maximum amount of boats out racing.

We all hope Scotty then goes out, regardless of the end result and has a grin from ear to ear on the sunday adfternoon. Roll on the big expendature for 2011 Scotty, 250XS's here you come!

[Jon Fuller]

Or XS200's. Easier & cheaper to find/buy, cheaper to run and cheaper entries.

Yes, using the UIM method for length and assuming 7'1" beam it's just in.

[Captain Chaos]

As it happens, trying to find some used 20" 200xs proved to be impossible. But that's a different story

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Jon Fuller

Short / lightweight!! na, I think 28' is a pretty average size for E class, and 32 the same for D.
Remember, ours is a very large boat for E, but that was our choice. And when the classes get up to C and above, we're expecting big boats.

So you think the rules should be such, that OB's have the speed advantage over IB's in the calm, but also be 'as capable' in the rough? that doesn't sound fair to me. I can go with a horses for courses deal, but that aint horses for courses. Sounds like you think the horse for all courses should have OB's. Most of the stuff you design / sell has OB's doesn't it?

The thing is, the various sizes available in OBs (power / CC etc) define where one can draw the lines in the sand. multiples of these units are not always easy to serve up with the ideal overal / combined power package. you try it (without giving a huge advantage to OBs)
I still think they're reasonably fair.

Overall results... where did Darren Hook come last year in the rough 200 mile Cowes event? 4th overall, or was it 3rd. Not bad me thinks for a *short / light boat* against the might of Cinzano, Hannes, etc in their 5 ton monsters with 1000's of hp ( in classes above him). The boat you ran in RB08 would I believe have done very well last year at that rough Cowes race (if you had a different co driver )

Actually at the moment I have more designs for Marathon racing with inboards - either being built or at negotiation stage.

But I'm not going on the assumption that these new designs will be giving away speed to the outboard boats of similar length in calm water.

I'm sure a Technohull 999 would have done really well in the CTC last year - but at least partly because of others misfortunes and in a few other cases because boats were not fulfilling their potential. That boat (RB08) ran twin 300 XS's -but I still think it was a lot of power to give away to say packages such as the Goldfish and Vilda RIBs (in RB08) and boats such as Scott's Sunseeker. Especially so when you take into account the outboards less torque, higher fuel consumption and probably being tougher on drives.

OK - some of the rules have now changed and the boat could run twin 350 Verado's (benefit or not) - but still not working out great.

Not saying it is easy with getting classes sorted out - and if more powerful outboards do come out it could all change - but at the moment I would go inboard engine every time - especially for an event such as Round Britian. May get a bit more chance with a one-off such as CTC.

[Cookee]

Originally Posted by Adam

Actually at the moment I have more designs for Marathon racing with inboards - either being built or at negotiation stage.

But I'm not going on the assumption that these new designs will be giving away speed to the outboard boats of similar length in calm water.

I'm sure a Technohull 999 would have done really well in the CTC last year - but at least partly because of others misfortunes and in a few other cases because boats were not fulfilling their potential. That boat (RB08) ran twin 300 XS's -but I still think it was a lot of power to give away to say packages such as the Goldfish and Vilda RIBs (in RB08) and boats such as Scott's Sunseeker. Especially so when you take into account the outboards less torque, higher fuel consumption and probably being tougher on drives.

OK - some of the rules have now changed and the boat could run twin 350 Verado's (benefit or not) - but still not working out great.

Not saying it is easy with getting classes sorted out - and if more powerful outboards do come out it could all change - but at the moment I would go inboard engine every time - especially for an event such as Round Britian. May get a bit more chance with a one-off such as CTC.

The might of the organisers of endurance car racing are no better at sorting out diesel to petrol equivalences - at Le Mans this year I witnessed a two horse race in LMP1 (the top class) between the two diesel cars Audi and the even faster Peugot teams for first diesel - the Peugot's all blew up leaving the Audi cars to take over the podium - the Aston Martin Lola's were only ever racing for first petrol car and will leave the class next year if the rules don't allow them to compete.

I agree that rules are rules and everyone should stick to them - Barry has been posting some interesting comments about the French way of doing things, without going into any detail everything is put before the competitors and approved by them - if it's clear that the rules are a bit broken and the boat intended to fall within that class don't - why not ask the competitors opinion - if it doesn't give anyone an unfair advantage and make it unsafe then everyone would vote to allow the change ...........

Or is that too simple?

[Jon Fuller]

The goldfish no longer fits in D class due to it's modded Yanmars. so it's in C (with your 300's I guess) but that is a pretty unique example and difficult to set the rules against. as far as reliability/drive/lower unit reliability etc, surely that's just a case of suitability, with OB's being naturally a little more fragile than heavy duty IB's, so I would simply say Marathon is primarily a IB domain, certainly as far as the real long range stuff goes. we can't write rules to try and offset reliability, people just have to make their choices on what type of motive power they want/trust. We can hardly say " yes, the rules set the OBs as favourites, but we think they have a higher chance of breakage".

Originally Posted by Adam

Actually at the moment I have more designs for Marathon racing with inboards - either being built or at negotiation stage.

But I'm not going on the assumption that these new designs will be giving away speed to the outboard boats of similar length in calm water.

I'm sure a Technohull 999 would have done really well in the CTC last year - but at least partly because of others misfortunes and in a few other cases because boats were not fulfilling their potential. That boat (RB08) ran twin 300 XS's -but I still think it was a lot of power to give away to say packages such as the Goldfish and Vilda RIBs (in RB08) and boats such as Scott's Sunseeker. Especially so when you take into account the outboards less torque, higher fuel consumption and probably being tougher on drives.

OK - some of the rules have now changed and the boat could run twin 350 Verado's (benefit or not) - but still not working out great.

Not saying it is easy with getting classes sorted out - and if more powerful outboards do come out it could all change - but at the moment I would go inboard engine every time - especially for an event such as Round Britian. May get a bit more chance with a one-off such as CTC.

[Cookee]

Originally Posted by Jon Fuller

The goldfish no longer fits in D class due to it's modded Yanmars. so it's in C (with your 300's I guess) but that is a pretty unique example and difficult to set the rules against. as far as reliability/drive/lower unit reliability etc, surely that's just a case of suitability, with OB's being naturally a little more fragile than heavy duty IB's, so I would simply say Marathon is primarily a IB domain, certainly as far as the real long range stuff goes. we can't write rules to try and offset reliability, people just have to make their choices on what type of motive power they want/trust. We can hardly say " yes, the rules set the OBs as favourites, but we think they have a higher chance of breakage".

Our new boat will be capable of taking outboards as well as inboards - I think the Verado's - especially the 350's with the beefier gearbox would make a quick 34' with 700hp - very expensive though and interesting to see how reliable they are - probably need a large amount of unleaded as well! I think they would be in C stock class and fast enough to do well overall in the right conditions.