The Cougar 38

[Mike Lloyd]

Just found this pic of John Bakers Cougar 38 back from 1989/90. A class winner and what a great boat that was with twin 600hp very heavy diesels it topped out at 85mph. Wouldn't it be a great Marathon boat today if Cougar brought out a stepped hull version with twin Ilmore 725's!

We can but dream.
ML.
.

[olli]

Originally Posted by Mike Lloyd

..Wouldn't it be a great Marathon boat today if Cougar brought out a stepped hull version with twin Ilmore 725's!...

I am sure they would be more than happy to build this twin step Enforcer with Ilmors for you:

[Ben]

I seem to recall that Flippin Eck was a bit smokey on startup.

In Guernsey in 89 I watched it fire up from cold and in the course of a minute or so the marina disappeared, totally obscured by smoke. I remember it as if was yesterday. Come to think of it, it was yesterday that I watched it on one of my old videos.

[Mike Lloyd]

Originally Posted by Ben

I seem to recall that Flippin Eck was a bit smokey on startup.

In Guernsey in 89 I watched it fire up from cold and in the course of a minute or so the marina disappeared, totally obscured by smoke. I remember it as if was yesterday. Come to think of it, it was yesterday that I watched it on one of my old videos.

It was a bit of a smokey joe on start up with those old Sabre Diesels but it handled like a sports boat at max speed, light as a feather on the steering.
ML.
.

[SplitPin]

Originally Posted by Mike Lloyd

It was a bit of a smokey joe on start up with those old Sabre Diesels .

As were most Diesel Engined Raceboats.
I Seem to recall Romans Sabre was like it as well.
Didn't she have to be started on O2 as well????

[Jon Fuller]

Originally Posted by SplitPin

Didn't she have to be started on O2 as well????

Ether, using the start pilot system.

pump pump pump, crank crank crank, clatter clatter clatter

[Jim Brooker]

Originally Posted by Jon Fuller

Ether, using the start pilot system.

pump pump pump, crank crank crank, clatter clatter clatter

Sorry Jon but all the low compression race Sabre Diesel engine's when starting used to run completely on Kerosene for the first 15 - 20 Min's and then back to diesel, we never started them on Ether because it used break the piston ring land's, sometimes we would put a gas flame in the inlet manifold while cranking.

[Pennpromo]

Originally Posted by Jim Brooker

Sorry Jon but all the low compression race Sabre Diesel engine's when starting used to run completely on Kerosene for the first 15 - 20 Min's and then back to diesel, we never started them on Ether because it used break the piston ring land's, sometimes we would put a gas flame in the inlet manifold while cranking.

Jim, for John Phillip Tuba's in the Round Britain 1984 we started the Sabres on Start Pilot, a little aerosol that screwed into the top of a hand pump, wouldn't start without it, as Mr Fuller says, pump, pump, pump, clank, clank, clank accompanied with very large volumes of sickly smelling white smoke.

[Pennpromo]

Originally Posted by Mike Lloyd

Just found this pic of John Bakers Cougar 38 back from 1989/90. A class winner and what a great boat that was with twin 600hp very heavy diesels it topped out at 85mph. Wouldn't it be a great Marathon boat today if Cougar brought out a stepped hull version with twin Ilmore 725's!

We can but dream.
ML.
.

Cinzano would still be faster

[Tony Davis]

But not as good looking!

[Jon Fuller]

Originally Posted by Jim Brooker

Sorry Jon but all the low compression race Sabre Diesel engine's when starting used to run completely on Kerosene for the first 15 - 20 Min's and then back to diesel, we never started them on Ether because it used break the piston ring land's, sometimes we would put a gas flame in the inlet manifold while cranking.

'Debenhams' had start pilots on the Sabre 630's (1990, last generation of Sabre Marathons I think), but I never saw them used. Instead, that also had 1kw Webasto heaters in the closed circuit cooling system which would be switched on 2 hours before start up bringing the block almost to running temp (convection circulation I guess). They would then start without any other outside assistance, but still with a little wheezing and plenty of acrid white smoke (until you tried to get on plane, when it turned inky black). The trailer had a genny that the three webastos would be run from if there was no handy mains about. I've a feeling they were 12:1 CR, or less. In fact 9.5:1 rings a bell, but does seem incredibly low.

They actually sounded reasonably quiet starting that way. Much kinder I'm sure than the ether.

[Mike Lloyd]

Originally Posted by Tony Davis

But not as good looking!

[Mrs Smillie]

Cinzano will be faster and better looking

Eric

[FLYING FISH]

Originally Posted by Mike Lloyd

Just found this pic of John Bakers Cougar 38 back from 1989/90. A class winner and what a great boat that was with twin 600hp very heavy diesels it topped out at 85mph. Wouldn't it be a great Marathon boat today if Cougar brought out a stepped hull version with twin Ilmore 725's!

We can but dream.
ML.
.

Gent wants a stepped mono with circa 1450hp petrols.Ummm! Well there is a 2010 record holder that may suit him.

[Jim Brooker]

Originally Posted by Pennpromo

Jim, for John Phillip Tuba's in the Round Britain 1984 we started the Sabres on Start Pilot, a little aerosol that screwed into the top of a hand pump, wouldn't start without it, as Mr Fuller says, pump, pump, pump, clank, clank, clank accompanied with very large volumes of sickly smelling white smoke.

Yes your right if you used Start Pilot they would start (but then they wouldn't start with out it,) when I used Kerosene to run them on, they would start every time, and as Jon say's.. later on we had block heaters and they started straight away, the Ether was very bad for them we would always had reduced power and ring damaged starting on Ether.

[Mike Lloyd]

Originally Posted by FLYING FISH

Gent wants a stepped mono with circa 1450hp petrols.Ummm! Well there is a 2010 record holder that may suit him.

No I don't want one Graham, couldn't afford the fuel on my pension! No, I was just musing out loud. No harm in musing, it's what old men do I'm told.

[SplitPin]

Originally Posted by Jim Brooker

the Ether was very bad for them.

As you say Engines seem to get addicted to it.
I've seen it advertised as "Start yer Bastard" in some classic car mags!!!!

[Jim Brooker]

Originally Posted by SplitPin

As you say Engines seem to get addicted to it.
I've seen it advertised as "Start yer Bastard" in some classic car mags!!!!

You are right SplitPin.. engines do get sort of addicted to Ether, it wash's all the lubrication off the rings and bores and then you get lots of wear which reduces the compressions and power which in-turn makes they harder to start.

[Alacrity]

As Jim says a flame down the inlet manifold is was as good as anything back then. Sometimes on a cold day on a first startup on the dyno after a rebuild we would use a flame, which always worked. The heater plugs fitted the Perkins I worked with in the 70's had a fuel connection to them so they did just that if you needed them, which you rarely did if they were in fine fettle. We alway joked that you could tell which boats were fitted with a Ford based engine by the startup smoke! Apart from the early 175's the Perkins were better in that respect, don't think they had quite as much grunt though.

The engine heaters is a good idea, much kinder on the beasts, don't the Yanks/Canadians do that with their cars in the colder parts? I believe they plug 'em in when they park.

Ether is a real engine wrecker, you need to be really desperate to resort to it.

[Jon Fuller]

Originally Posted by Alacrity

The engine heaters is a good idea, much kinder on the beasts, don't the Yanks/Canadians do that with their cars in the colder parts? I believe they plug 'em in when they park.

Yeah, my GM 6.5's (out of the Blazers, Suburban's etc) have one core plug (freeze plug) with a pair of brass pins sticking out. A lead is available to plug em into your mains supply (110v). dunno what wattage they are though.