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Old 14-08-2005, 04:13 AM   #1
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The Weather

The problem with this sport is the sea conditions.

E.G World Championship is held where the sea state average is always middle to rough; so local racers all have a Mono or Batboat.

20 Mono drivers pitch up and one cat driver from Scandinavia.

The sea is becalmed all week and Scandinavian takes Championship with 1200 points, and is 20 mph quicker.

Result.

50% of fleet become disillusioned with the sport, a couple of drivers buy the same hull as the world championship winning boat for the next year, and find they cant even run in the rough.

The only way to go racing is if every competitor has the same hull and engine.

I wont name the navigator that said to me that three of his World Championships were a piece of p*** , he and his driver were just in the better prepared, designed, built and financed boat.

If for argument sake a 1.3 L “One series” Offshore Class were set up – it would work. Set up / prop choice /driver ability / navigation skills would be key.

This is why the Honda Series is so successful –

Class 3 Offshore needs to learn from it now ! and fast.
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Old 14-08-2005, 10:31 AM   #2
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Re: The Weather

Quote:
Originally posted by Ciao
This is why the Honda Series is so successful –
And nothing to do with the huge sums of money injected by Honda, along with the kudos and clout of such a large company backing it ???

Prize money!!

TV coverage!!

These things are key, and only available because it's backed/financed by a giant.
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Old 14-08-2005, 12:43 PM   #3
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One race / location world championships suck. They arnt really a world championship they are the local championship where held. Sorry but a world champion is the bloke who travels like some nomad around europe & the rest of the world with his rig & races. Yep it's expensive, sorry to say if you cant pay dont play. It is one of the most expensive sports to be involved with so lets not try and make out it's not & quite reasonable. It cost lots of bucks even at national level
Just imagine having 3 F1 GP races held in China is he the world champion... think not he was good for 3 races not a season.
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Old 14-08-2005, 01:47 PM   #4
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>The problem with this sport is the sea >conditions.

cant do much about that



>20 Mono drivers pitch up and one cat driver >from Scandinavia.The sea is becalmed all week and Scandinavian takes Championship with 1200 points, and is 20 mph quicker.

Luck

>50% of fleet become disillusioned with the sport,

Quitters !

>a couple of drivers buy the same hull as the >world championship winning boat for the next >year, and find they cant even run in the >rough.

goofs !

>The only way to go racing is if every >competitor has the same hull and engine.

No wayn manufacturors have enough power in boat racing as it is.

>I wont name the navigator that said to me >that three of his World Championships were a >piece of p*** , he and his driver were just in >the better prepared, designed, built and >financed boat.

isnt it always the case ?
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Old 14-08-2005, 04:29 PM   #5
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Re: The Weather

Quote:
Originally posted by Ciao
The problem with this sport is the sea conditions.

E.G World Championship is held where the sea state average is always middle to rough; so local racers all have a Mono or Batboat.

20 Mono drivers pitch up and one cat driver from Scandinavia.

The sea is becalmed all week and Scandinavian takes Championship with 1200 points, and is 20 mph quicker.

Result.

Are you refering to Quiberon '96?

"Brits made to look like 'Turnips' by the 'Swedes'"
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Old 15-08-2005, 12:20 PM   #6
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Disagreee with most of above.

The three race World Championship / one venue is by far the best way to decide a true World Champion for most classes. It is the only way to have a true international fleet with realistic numbers and strong competition. If you have been to some of the recent 3C events you would probably see what I mean.

Go to a series of venues over different countries - how many teams / countries will be represented?

Might be different if we were a professional sport - but we definitely are not.

As to One design / Honda - well it just does not improve the breed, lead to development or indeed fast boats - so I'm afraid are of no interest to many people at all.

The true skill IMHO of any motor / equipment sport is developing and competing and that is why one design classes are very rarely at the pinnacle of any sport. They do however have a very important role to play and can provide great entertainment.

As to weather - that is what offshore racing is about - and why you make many of the decisions you do. Also why the really successful racers still get results regardless of conditions.

Class 3 does have much to learn - but one design would just kill it. Internationally it would be impossible to agree on that design and so the end of international competition. We have more to learn about promotion and making racing / venues more attractive. Much of which comes down to finance and there is still the ajor problem. Racing is too expensive and we need to find ways of halving entry fees for a start - and then providing more in return for that entry fee, be it press coverage or whatever.
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Old 15-08-2005, 12:57 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by Adam
Much of which comes down to finance and there is still the ajor problem. Racing is too expensive and we need to find ways of halving entry fees for a start - and then providing more in return for that entry fee, be it press coverage or whatever.

Wot 'e said.
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Old 15-08-2005, 01:12 PM   #8
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Agree with Adam on all the points here.

One design racing does have it's place but too much of it would definately be bad for the sport. This is even more so true for class 3 which has traditionally been a great proving ground for new concepts/designs as the boats are cheap (er) and still pretty fast.

The major killer at the moment has got to be entry fee's. The only way to improve promotion and sponsorship oppurtunities for racers is to generate a greater spectacle for the public / media. This cannot be done with only a handful of boats competing each year.

The very first step to the re-birth of the sport must be to halve entry fees. The RYA, ORDA etc cannot be expected to push the sport to the media and venue towns without a decent number of boats gauranteed to turn up. In turn Racers cannot be expected to pay the current high fee's when they get relatively little in return.

RYA may argue that fees must be high to compensate for low entry numbers and racers may say that the lack of promotion and therefore sponsorship means they cannot afford the fees.

It seems that this viscous circle can only be broken in one way...

What does anyone else think?
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Old 15-08-2005, 11:12 PM   #9
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Well actually, I agree with Ciao on the subject of a World, or European championship, that's held over just a few days.

There has been a few occasions where a driver appears from such a championship, as a champ, who really isn't 'champ material', but was lucky with weather, and other drivers misfortune during such a short 'test'.

let's face it, we've all had a time when a problem has caused a lack of performance, and taken many days testing and fault finding to sort it out. if this happens to a very potential champ over the few critical days, it could result in him/her being an 'also ran', when normally, he/she would be a front runner.

in a normal season championship, this sort of problem would probably only affect 1 event out of 8, 10, whatever (in the good old days)

in short, I believe the 3 day championship can make champs out of also-rans, and also-rans out of champs.
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Old 16-08-2005, 01:44 AM   #10
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Agree with you Jon - it can be unfair on someone if they have a gremlin, or, someone perhaps not completely deserving of such a title may benefit from particular conditions / circumstances.

What Adam said though makes a lot of sense;

"The three race World Championship / one venue is by far the best way to decide a true World Champion for most classes. It is the only way to have a true international fleet with realistic numbers and strong competition. If you have been to some of the recent 3C events you would probably see what I mean.

Go to a series of venues over different countries - how many teams / countries will be represented?

Might be different if we were a professional sport - but we definitely are not."


As vast majority of racers hardly have the money to compete over a national let alone international series, it seems that the current system might be the best way of still actually staging a World championship.

Is there another practical option?...
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Old 16-08-2005, 09:15 AM   #11
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At times it would be good to have a discard - but that would probably involve lengthening events - which is not realistic either.

Only classes with a strong financial base are going to have a travelling World Championships, which in offshore has only wver been class1 - and look at how many boats they can now muster? So I just don't think the money is in powerboatng to give a better format. What would you suggest?

I don't actually think there are many examples of people winning events who should not have done. We all know what country the event is in, what weather conditions can be experienced and that is all part of it. I can think of people who have become World Champions in classes with low levels of entries and I think that is far worse and actually what the 3 races / single venue format is trying to prevent as far as possible.
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Old 16-08-2005, 09:24 AM   #12
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I concede that it's a problem without an easy answer, I'm just saying there have been situations where drivers of very high regard, have walked away with nowt, and drivers we all know to be 'average' at best, have walked away 'Champions'.

Such is Life I guess.
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Old 16-08-2005, 09:40 AM   #13
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Nobody said life was fair!

But generally the larger the number of boats racing the less likely an average driver will win. Yes a great driver can loose an event through an unfortunate break-down, although I think reliability is far better now than years ago and again the better the competitor often the better the preperation and reliability. However it does not matter how quick you are, if you crash, navigate badly, get dq'd etc you do not deserve to win that event.
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Old 24-08-2005, 03:39 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by Adam

As to One design / Honda - well it just does not improve the breed, lead to development or indeed fast boats - so I'm afraid are of no interest to many people at all.

So just how has 3C improved the breed Adam? Racers are running P21's in 2005 when Stapley cats were out running them in the late 70's.

The reason P21's are raced is because they are economical (in boat racing finance terms) to put together.
If I had a lottery win and asked Lorne to design a new 3C cat, had it built in the latest materials, had the engine prepared by Mr Holmes and then put in it the best cat driver, and the top navigator - it would stand more than a chance.
The rules are too open - I don’t think watching Rings with Hondas bouncing around is the total answer - but the winner is - the best team with the kit allowed.
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Old 24-08-2005, 09:34 AM   #15
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3C has led to many improvements - where do you want me to start?

Hull forms, aerodynamiccs, structures, rigging, props etc etc.

There does need to be a way of introducing cheaper racing and make more affordable boats to race. I actually think the whole class structure would be best changed.

Unfortunately 4 / 6 litre is pretty much dead in this country now - but a good top class could be introduced around say the 250 xs Merc. Then a more conventional 200 hp class could be introduced with say all boats having a full cockpit (i.e capability to seat 4) to rule out race boat specials - but still promote modern hull forms.

Alternatively introduce a top class based around a single affordable inboard engine such as the Volvo unit. I think this was tried in Sweden though with limited success.
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Old 24-08-2005, 09:35 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ciao
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If I had a lottery win and asked Lorne to design a new 3C cat, had it built in the latest materials, had the engine prepared by Mr Holmes and then put in it the best cat driver, and the top navigator - it would stand more than a chance.
Not if I won the lottery too!

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Old 24-08-2005, 03:14 PM   #17
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I have too agree with Adam that the weather is the charm of this sport.
You don’t now if it’s going to be rough or calm weather and if you should drive a mono or a cat.
In Sweden we often have quite calm weather but we have three places that we have races in that can be very rouge Öregrund, Smögen and Nynäshamn and it probably one of those that is going to be the host for the WC in 3C next year so l hope some English driver is going to come over to race.
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Old 24-08-2005, 03:33 PM   #18
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I have raced in Oregrund.

And the Swedish driver ( part of the V24 group ) said it was quite rough near the lighthouse! It was flat calm everywhere, and near the lighthouse it was much like the Solent on a good flat day!

There are pictures around someplace of us going round the lighthouse.

Personally I much prefer racing in Sweden and Norway! Two foot of bump, changing to 3 foot of bump with whitecaps. Tiny swells with a steady direction.

At Ramsgate we had 2 meter swells, where you could not see anyone or anything for half the time, and spent 60% of the time midair waiting to hurt yourself on the way down.... I love Ramsgate - but that is due to the organisation and facilities - not because of the sea!

Sweden was realy cool!

Anyone going to race there will be astounded! Interested spectators go to race control a few days before to get the race route. They then plan their position to watch the race, based on where they think the best action will be. You can actually run the race without a navigator due to the race course being mapped out by the respectful locals, who anchor about 100 meters off the race line in all directions, leaving a clear path showing the route!

For me - a complete beginner - ( Sweden was my 5th race ever ) it was just beyond words. Thousands of people on the shore line, hundreds and hundreds of boats moored supporting you was just *wow*.

Really a great place to race!
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Old 24-08-2005, 04:17 PM   #19
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ok now for my view,you need to promote and advertise your business,i know this does not help the fact that racing is expensive,but if you actualy advertised an event then at least you may get people turning up. i was in cowes last thursday and did not see one poster or ad about this coming weekend,no adverts in local press or radio,so how can we expect supporters if nobody knows if an event is happening. to anyone that is not on boat mad or possibly a couple more web sites,they would not have a clue that anything was happening this weekend
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Old 24-08-2005, 06:01 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by C-88
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In Sweden we often have quite calm weather but we have three places that we have races in that can be very rouge Öregrund, Smögen and Nynäshamn and it probably one of those that is going to be the host for the WC in 3C next year so l hope some English driver is going to come over to race.
I'm pretty much stopping racing after this year - but I'm sure I will still have the boat and maybe the only race I will do in 2006 will be the Swedish World Championships.

Saw some of the racing in 2004 and thought it was fantastic. Had a great time travelling in Sweden too.
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