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Old 21-08-2005, 10:43 PM   #21
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"You have to love rumours - they provide more correct and valuable information than some organisers OR the RYA do!"


"That is great. They ran the V24's at Torquay with two boats! ( that is why no matter if I race or not, I come third. First and Second will be decided by they two boats who raced at Torquay.)"

Did the 2 V24s race in Torquay on their own or where they part of the fleet. I’m pretty certain most organisers will agree that 2 boats does not a race make.

"Still have to get an answer as to WHY they decided to run V24's - by themselves, in the ONLY race on Thursday. - seems like it was setup to have low entries!"

I am certainly no fan of the RYA but even they (I don’t think) would set out to ruin a race.

"I heard from the RYA that *I* had asked for it to be arranged that way, which is complete and utter Bollocks - No one *ever* asked me, and I have not discussed and of the race calendar with anyone.

Finally - if there were only two entries - and we start the race - I have a chance of coming first or second in the nationals"

Are you hoping for only two entries?. Now that’s an impressive championship isn’t it.

"as I can catch up the points I missed at Torquay - if there is only one other boat ( and I was definitely one of them - I only confirmed TWO races at the beginning of the year on the RYA entry form - Ramsgate and Cowes"

Might have been more helpful if you had committed to a full season at the beginning. Certainly helps when organisers are looking for local (Council) sponsorship that a certain number of boats are likely to show .

- I was asked to fill in a second RYA entry form at Littlehampton, and I filled in Littlehampton, Poole and Cowes, so they have my entry *twice*)

"Yet I hear from a RUMOUR from a member of the safety crew that my race has been cancelled! It appears that RUMOUR is better than the truth - as - since I have bought it up on this forum - it is now confirmed that the race has been cancelled.

What decided to cancel the race, and not notify the entrants?"

Won’t reply to crude comments."

"When was it decided?"

As of last Tuesday evening, there was no decision.

"Why not bother to notify the V24 Club?"

Don’t know

"Two months ago I had to decide to race in the UK, or to go and race in Scandinavia ( where they actually *like* people racing!! ) I have several emails back and forward between myself, the organisers and the RYA - several *heated* emails where John Puddyfoot threatened me with a disiplinary hearing ( laughs ) for bring the sport into disrepute - because they would not confirm two races at Cowes.

They finally agreed the two races at Cowes. So i did not go race in Scandinavia, and raced in England instead.

(The *four* boats in Scandinavia ran a full race series BTW - watched and supported by thousands of people, and activly suported by the clubs and governing body - who even arranged TV coverage!)"

That’s Scandinavia, they also have a number of Scarabs, Apaches, Cigarettes, Fountains, Nor-Techs, Skaters etc. running around. Different market, different mindset, different race (and Poker Run) scene.

"It is my suspicion that the V24 event was moved to Thursday - on its own, with no other events, and that the next V24 race was scheduled for Saturday specifically to be an obsticle to entries".

Why oh why would anyone want to do that? Is there a conspiracy that only a select few are aware of?

"My navigator has taken two days leave from work. I have fixed the boat at high expence to be ready for the event, I have bought the ferry tickets and booked the campsite for truck and boat. - and I hear by pure chance that my event is cancelled.

Not only that but safety crews have been notified by POST! So the decision must have been made several days ago!


WTF is up with that?"

Have no idea why the 2 V24 crews were not not notified of the race cancellation. I agree that they should have been informed at the first possible moment but unfortunately they weren’t.

The organisers (at least this year) are trying to put on an event that hopefully will be agreeable to all involved. No-one is making profit from the Cowes Festival and all of this year’s officials are paying for the privilege of being abused by the occasional disgruntled racer.

It seems that most forget that we are all involved in an amateur sport that will never be regarded as mainstream.
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Old 21-08-2005, 11:16 PM   #22
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Ben,

You gotta learn to use the Quote function.
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Old 22-08-2005, 01:06 AM   #23
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Perhaps if you had looked a bit more carefully at my response you would have noticed that that I had grammatically quoted your post accurately. Your instructions as to how to reply to posted messages on a website however helpful are neither necessary nor welcomed.

The majority of organisers only have the best of intentions of OUR sport at heart and give freely of their time and at their own expense to create a climate in which boats can race. I've mentioned it before but no-one is doing it for the money. If anyone has the grand idea to fix powerboat racing, please, please, please let the rest of us know.

Rant finished. V Tricky, I'll be happy to have a discussion with you about the way forward at Cowes.
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Old 22-08-2005, 08:12 AM   #24
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Cowes

I agree with Ben, what we all need to do is pull together. If an organiser decides to cancel a race because they have only two entries, and apathy in a class, there is no point in slagging off the RYA.
Racers make races, if they can't be bothered to commit to a series I don't blame the organisers for cancelling a race- specifically Thursday in Cowes.
UKOBA has put a tremendous effort into organising Cowes on the back of KBL's last minute commitment and these guys need racers support, they do it for the good of the sport and you guys in the boats who want to race.
V-24 needs to get it's act into gear for next year otherwise yet again it will be written off and a group of guys will be left with almost worthless unraceable kit.
Very Tricky you do yourself no favours . As a newcomer to the sport you should be led by what the well meaning volanteers, many of whom have been helping for 20 yrs +, are trying to do to further it; not continually trying to stir the shite. Without these guys there will be no sport. Full stop.
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Old 22-08-2005, 08:40 AM   #25
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Yes we did run a race for 2 V24's at Littlehampton to try and support the class through it's troubles. But as chairman of ORDA I would think it is unlikely we would again.

It was pretty confusing to the public as it was billed as a race and two boats is not enough, was not fair to the safety boats crews we had to put on the water and is not cost effective.

As a club we will do all we can to help racing and competitors. After all we gave entry fee's back when our basic race had to be cancelled at Littlehampton due to weather and when has that happened before in racing. But we need support from the racers and that also means number of boats entered.

I wish the V24s well - but two boats to put on a race is pushing it.

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Old 22-08-2005, 09:07 AM   #26
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To be fair, I think Marc's biggest gripe, is that the decision to cancel wasn't communicated to the drivers of V-24 as soon as it could/should have been, and not the actual decision to cancel itself.
How is it possible for the safety fleet to be informed by post before the drivers, especially when there's only two! A simple phone call to the 'two' drivers, as soon as they knew could have saved money and time. After all, the safety fleet would most likely still be going, with, or without V-24, maybe just a day later, whereas the two V-24's may not have bothered at all, or if only for the sunday basic, gone over under their own steam from southampton or similar and saved a small fortune.
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Old 22-08-2005, 09:12 AM   #27
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Re: Cowes

Jon beat me to it, was about to say the same.
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Old 22-08-2005, 09:18 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jon Fuller
the decision to cancel wasn't communicated to the drivers of V-24 as soon as it could/should have been.
Agreed (as I stated in a previous post).
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Old 22-08-2005, 10:05 AM   #29
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Cowes

It is regretable that V-24s only heard about the postponement/ cancellation of their race through the safety information sent out by the OOD for Cowes. I assume that somebody would have been tasked to phone the two entries to inform them of the change- this has obviously not been done. I guess that the race may have been re-scheduelled until either Friday or Saturday to amalgamate with another class ?
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Old 22-08-2005, 10:11 AM   #30
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Out of interest, who was the 'other' entry? (was it Mark Pascoe)
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Old 22-08-2005, 10:15 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jon Fuller
Out of interest, who was the 'other' entry? (was it Mark Pascoe)
Don't know. The first I heard of any of this was yesterday.

(Hope my quoting skills are now passing muster).
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Old 22-08-2005, 11:37 AM   #32
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adam it is things like this that there is only two boats in v24 at this time coments like that about not putting on a race again is not helping the sport. in littlehampton there was 5 v24s that was charged £220.00 enty this must of helped the club. problem with v24 at the min is it had a promoter, now it does not. this has not helped because before the racing started we had no races. we had to meet with the rya to see if anyone would put on a race for us this is why there are not many boats. this is a great boat looks good sounds good and can make a great class and great racing.the way it is going in the uk there will be no v24s it has gone from 2 boats to 15 last year back to 2. but there is 6 boats in norway and sweden now and this is where we will be racing next year if it stays like this. i think we all need to start pulling together because there is not many boats in class 3 or ribs. as a club you must incourage every one to race and if that means together then we all must race together ontill we all have more boats.as for tricky he has been in the sport for 5 mins and he has not helped matters for v24 he is in his own way is trying to help but he does have a point we are the last to know
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Old 22-08-2005, 12:20 PM   #33
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I'm trying to be as helpful as I can - all I said was we cannot put races on for two boats. I don't think any other club will. We would certainly hope to run a V24 race next year but need more entries. I think ORDA is probably the most helpful of the offshore clubs and we are trying to help the sport whilst braking even as a club.

As it happens I'm very concerned about racing in general and all classes for 2006. I really think it is time for change in racing (in general) and we all have to be open to ideas and ways of getting the sport back to being more viable for competitors and organisers.
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Old 22-08-2005, 12:41 PM   #34
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Also

As a club we are quite open to helpful suggestions and if a class or competitors come to us and offer suggestions as to help there class grow by changing formats we will listen.

We do not fix the entry fees - that is an RYA / ORC issue - But we are ceratinly requesting ways from the RYA to bring these costs down
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Old 22-08-2005, 12:46 PM   #35
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this is what i am on about we need i big start with all class together and all the boats like 1.3 and 4lt may come out to play if they have races they can enter. it is like what you are saying about v24 with two boats at the min the clubs would rather lose 2 or 3 more boats than let them race. this is the same for 4lt and 1.3 we must sort something out for now because i can see there being 10 boats at a race weekend then the clubs will not have any money to put a race on. then there will be no racing.
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Old 22-08-2005, 12:53 PM   #36
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Adam,

This year I hit my head aginst a brick wall on more than one occasion, trying to get some of the other 6 V24's that were not racing out into a race. There are so many problems in the way of the V24's racing.

___________________________________________

RYA rules do not help.

If you own a boat that is *not* a V24 you can race all the BASIC races all season, buying a 'pay as you go' day licence. If you are trying to race a V24 You can only do two basic races before you have to buy the full licence.

The V24 licence is £490. One for you, one for the navigator. Plus to renew the measurement certificate is £120. So you are over a grand before you even enter the first race. The licence for other classes is less. I think something like £360? The renewal of the measurement certificate for other classes is if I remember correctly £55 or £65.

Then if you are a V24 your entry fee is £220 per race. Ribs and other offshore pay £190. The RYA says the clubs set the entry fee, the clubs have told me the entry fee is set by the RYA.

Additionally - because we have a canopy - we have to pay for and do a dunk test.

So if I ran a B24 ( same hull ) in class C I would have to outlay five or six hundred *less* before I arrived at my first race.

___________________________________________

V1 wanted to race at cowes, and they met the RYA to find out what they needed ( they raced the BASIC at Poole, and the boat was 100% ready ) They came out of the meeting with the RYA and stated that it was simply ipossible - finacially - for them to meet the requirements set by the RYA.

___________________________________________

What I think would help from the club side is if the races were billed as open invitational races. So that any V24 could come and race - in the same race as the other V24's - without having to buy the national licences. It would be cheaper for me to buy a day licence for each race than to have bought the national licence.

So the RYA should not place any limit on the number of day licences you can buy. They are trying to force people into the national licence structure. In reality people are just stopping racing.

___________________________________________

I think the RYA could help by reducing their fees and charges. Not just for V24's, but accross the whole range of boats. Look at the fees they charge Zapcats. it costs almost as much to race one year in the Zapcat as the total price of a second hand Zapcat.

How much does it *cost* the RYA to print a piece of A4 paper, stamp it and post it? Around a pound or two? So why the fee of £120 for the service?

You can say the same for all the fees charged. Why does a class C licence cost £300 something and a V24 licence cost almost £500?

Why should any of them cost more than £25 or so? That would cover more than the actual cost.

The theory that insurance is included in the licence? That should be seperate and paid for seperately. And then the clubs state that insurance is part of their fee's as well.

___________________________________________

I feel we need greater openness from the RYA on why they are charging the fees they are. I am sure that there is a great deal that can be done to reduce the cost of racing.

___________________________________________

Finally - communication.
It would have been nice if the RYA talked to the clubs and the clubs talked to the RYA and the end result was information being given to the racer that was reliable and dependable.

It is sad that only two boats entered Cowes. I dont understand the figures myself - I was told Pascoe had entered, I had entered, Mills and Smithy had entered. So that makes four boats. Poor show - I agree, when there are 6 other boats sitting on trailers around the area, and at least three other crew are dunk tested and avalable to race. But the organisers decided to put the race on. Those boats that entered made decisions based on their comitment to hold the race.

To cancell the race at such short notice, and then not even bother to tell anyone is just unacceptable!
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Old 22-08-2005, 01:00 PM   #37
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FWIW:

I am please that we have a forum where we can argue and disagree, perhaps we can end up with some solutions.
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Old 22-08-2005, 01:19 PM   #38
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Although the RYA appear to have some communication issues surely if the V24 drivers talk to each other then they would have known what the position is and have a race with two boats is not a good idea.

You would have thought that a one class racing design might have installed some camaraderie between the drivers and spurred them on to get a sponsor, turn up, and show what an exciting racing boat it is.

Whoever considers themself a spokesman for V24 should ring the others up and find out why they are not turning up.

Personally I'm pissed about the situation as I had taken the day off to watch the V24's race.

Cheers

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Old 22-08-2005, 01:22 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mark Wildey

Personally I'm pissed about the situation as I had taken the day off to watch the V24's race.

Cheers

Mark
Now,... a bloke with YOUR money, should be looking to buy one, and go racing!

This would have the added bonus of us being able to take the piss that you'd 'upgraded' from the armbands.
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Old 22-08-2005, 01:25 PM   #40
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Actually, I don't think 'talking to each other' is enough cos it's easy to forget someone. You need an accessible hub where everyone can get the info from.

I think the communication issue would take a big step to being resolved if representatives from UKOBA, RYA & F200 were to join boatmad. Thereby providing a central, public, point of contact for competitors, racers, organisers and enthusiastics alike.

I know these guys all watch the forum - be nice if they get involved too.

I also agree with the "1 big start" approach. OK, it's only my first season, but I've really enjoyed having RIBS & 3C off 1 start and it's cool being part of 1 big race rather than lots of little ones.
It's such a shame we couldn't do that at Poole - but I understand this is on the books for next year.

But, considering the range of boats, would 'open' racing on a single start really work? Although, I think the performance of the V24's is within the range that maybe they could race with 3C & Ribs. You could then have 1st past the post, and individual class positions as F200 has been doing.
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