Fro sale Phantom 23

[Pro Dutch]

Orginal build by Raffshore.

boat is 2002 23 ft incl trailer

like new!!


without outboards, or with, several availble, with one
engine this boat will still go fast.
This is a great offshore boat with ballast and fuel tanks.

more info mail: robert@produtch.com

[Paul E]

Sorry this is totally unrelated to the sale, but I guess you're Robert Joosten of pro-mod fame?

[Pro Dutch]

Yep that's me. My job and now my company has 25+ years related with boating.
( building and or manage ships ) Promod racing is a bit out of control
hobby of us.

[Pro Dutch]

The 23 depents how you want it. I have several options with outboards.
If you take it like this: boat, incl lift no engine's with trailer that has new tires and brakes it is euro 10.000,-
For complete package mail or call for options.

regards,
Robert

[larby]

So how did these come about then? Are they made from the original Phantom moulds, or are they illegal splashed models?

[steve murrell]

THAT IS NO PHANTOM 23`, ANY ONE THAT KNOWS THE TRUE PHANTOM 23 WOULD KNOW THAT THE CHINES COME RIGHT TO THE FRONT OF THE BOAT, NOT STOP IN A LINE 2 FOOT FROM THE FRONT, KEEP DREAMING

[Paul E]

Yeah it doesn't look like any Phantom I've ever seen... Bet it goes like stink with 600hp on the back though!!

Good luck at the Euro Finals, I'm coming over from Guernsey to watch. You Pro-mod boys are insane!

[larby]

Originally Posted by steve murrell

THAT IS NO PHANTOM 23`, ANY ONE THAT KNOWS THE TRUE PHANTOM 23 WOULD KNOW THAT THE CHINES COME RIGHT TO THE FRONT OF THE BOAT, NOT STOP IN A LINE 2 FOOT FROM THE FRONT, KEEP DREAMING

No need to shout!
I had rather gathered that, along with the shape of the screen & various other bits. What I was more getting at is whether he's had the decency to buy the rights to the design, then develop it as he sees fit, or whether he just stole the design by splashing it with no regard for what that does to the market and chances of boat design continuing to develop.
How much longer do you think the likes of cookee, Adam and Mike are gonna carry on spending vast amounts of time and money designing boats, just for some tosser to nick the design and undercut them, thus ruining their chances of getting the sales they require?

James

[Renegade]

James, do a search on here and you'll get all your answers

[larby]

I've a strong feeling I already know the answer, would just like to see it from the creator

Granted, it doesn't directly affect me, but it really gets my goat and it's another nail in powerboating's coffin if allowed to continue!

Rant over

James

[Jonnyboy]

Dont say it is a phantom when it clearly isnt

[Pro Dutch]

Sorry guys do not want to step on any toes here. This is a raffshore and it looks a lot like a phantom
Just a nice boat, and I put in the add just that.

[Big Dutch]

Originally Posted by Pro Dutch

Sorry guys do not want to step on any toes here. This is a raffshore and it looks a lot like a phantom
Just a nice boat, and I put in the add just that.

Yes you said it was a raffshore originally looks nice

[Tremlett 15]

Raffshore can also build a P 28 .........see within text, I assume its a copy ?

http://users.skynet.be/sky34435/aboutus.html

[larby]

Ahhh yes, now I remember that old thread about raffshore and their website!!

Yeah, the 28 is a copy too. I really loathe people like them and wish people didn't support them by buying their boats.
Trouble is, people don't think of it that way, they just see a nice boat and buy it. They don't care what they're doing to the market.

James

[Tremlett 15]

Originally Posted by larby

I really loathe people like them and wish people didn't support them by buying their boats.
Trouble is, people don't think of it that way, they just see a nice boat and buy it. They don't care what they're doing to the market.

James

totally agree, back in the early 70s a guy wanted to buy our T14 when less than 1 year old to copy in grp as it was quick, we did NOT sell

[cooolaii]

Originally Posted by larby

Ahhh yes, now I remember that old thread about raffshore and their website!!

Yeah, the 28 is a copy too. I really loathe people like them and wish people didn't support them by buying their boats.
Trouble is, people don't think of it that way, they just see a nice boat and buy it. They don't care what they're doing to the market.

James

Hi , I ones tried to organise about 2 yrs ago in this site to purchace a P28 for Juanto a member on boatmad from the Canary Island , i tried for a new one ,bottom line was when i e,mailed bloke who has P28 mould in boatmad and a few words were also passed to him as a help i was told not posible as he was fearing copys were gona be made, so Juanto bought a copy from Holland i think .

So i say what can this be doing to the market if they dont build them , so people can do what they want with there own cash and if they find a copy and wana buy good for them ,@ the end of the day a copy might be as strong or stronger than an original , @ the end of the day a mould has been made from a original P28 to build copys and you dont need to be called S B to make sure its a good build .

coollaii

[Renegade]

I have seen some youtube footage of a boat called a phantom 23xl. I'm wondering if this is one of them?

[larby]

Originally Posted by cooolaii

Hi , I ones tried to organise about 2 yrs ago in this site to purchace a P28 for Juanto a member on boatmad from the Canary Island , i tried for a new one ,bottom line was when i e,mailed bloke who has P28 mould in boatmad and a few words were also passed to him as a help i was told not posible as he was fearing copys were gona be made, so Juanto bought a copy from Holland i think .

So i say what can this be doing to the market if they dont build them , so people can do what they want with there own cash and if they find a copy and wana buy good for them ,@ the end of the day a copy might be as strong or stronger than an original , @ the end of the day a mould has been made from a original P28 to build copys and you dont need to be called S B to make sure its a good build .

coollaii

It's not about whether it's a good build or anything, I've not doubt it's probably a great boat. It's about the principals involved.
What it's doing to the market is showing potential designers that people are still stealing designs and therefore able to undercut them as they don't have to spend hours and thousands designing the boat in the first place. Sooner or later people are just gonna give up designing boats as they'll never get their money back. It's also about them calling it a Phantom when it isn't. People less informed think they're getting a certain type of boat and they're actually getting a cheap rip off.

I see your point about the P28 no longer being in production, but the P21 definately is and I doubt they care about that.

Ironically I'm in a situation where my Revenger turned out not to be a 'splash' but was an illegal build not done to the correct standard. As a result I was left with a hull that was basically just scrap, when I'd bought it thinking it was a revenger and had been assured by several people of their legendary build quality. Everything I could see and check looked good, but the hidden bits when I ripped floors up etc were dire!
It's only because of my sheer determination not to give up, several thousand hours of work, a missed season and a whole load of money that I've managed to build myself a good boat at last.

Likewise, someone could buy a raffshore 'Phantom' thinking it's Steve Baker build quality and could get caught out the same way as me. Man I could rant about this all day!!

James

[dowdy]

Originally Posted by larby

It's not about whether it's a good build or anything, I've not doubt it's probably a great boat. It's about the principals involved.
What it's doing to the market is showing potential designers that people are still stealing designs and therefore able to undercut them as they don't have to spend hours and thousands designing the boat in the first place. Sooner or later people are just gonna give up designing boats as they'll never get their money back. It's also about them calling it a Phantom when it isn't. People less informed think they're getting a certain type of boat and they're actually getting a cheap rip off.

I see your point about the P28 no longer being in production, but the P21 definately is and I doubt they care about that.

Ironically I'm in a situation where my Revenger turned out not to be a 'splash' but was an illegal build not done to the correct standard. As a result I was left with a hull that was basically just scrap, when I'd bought it thinking it was a revenger and had been assured by several people of their legendary build quality. Everything I could see and check looked good, but the hidden bits when I ripped floors up etc were dire!
It's only because of my sheer determination not to give up, several thousand hours of work, a missed season and a whole load of money that I've managed to build myself a good boat at last.

Likewise, someone could buy a raffshore 'Phantom' thinking it's Steve Baker build quality and could get caught out the same way as me. Man I could rant about this all day!!

James

James,can understand your passionate response after the gigantic efforts you have put in on the last two projects you have done,now put yourself in my shoes ,i have a p25,ex AGFA BLUEBIRD,its had a hard life,been messed about with by previous owners and needs money throwing at it to mint it up, i have a laminator here who can take a mould of it and give me a brand new boat,mint,solid,have tried to find the purchaser of the original p25 mould to no avail,i have already talked to various people regarding the legal aspects of it and been advised accordingly,now do we let the p25 rot away,repair it,thats all it would be,a repair or give myself a brand spanker for less than the cost of a repaint/refurb? I like phantoms,always have,surely i would be preserving Steve Bakers heritage for future generations or do we just let it die?