ciao banned?

michaelcaine · 22-02-2006, 12:40 AM

has ciao been banned as well now???

Jon Fuller · 22-02-2006, 12:48 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by michaelcaine
has ciao been banned as well now???

Yes, we have said Ciao to Ciao, at the same time as kinfast.

michaelcaine · 22-02-2006, 12:50 AM

fair enough,what did he do? or is it none of my business

Jon Fuller · 22-02-2006, 01:06 AM

I'm just sick and tired of the whole kinfast/chaudron/splashing thing, Ciao spent every drunken hour thinking of ways to 'get a reaction' re: phantom/Steve Baker from me, i'm bored to tears with it.

He wanted a reaction, now he's got it.

They can play elsewhere, kinfast is already trying to continue his scratched record campaign every time he sniffs a bottle of wine, now it's on Scream & Fly, and i'm not prepared to to carry on with it there either, they don't deserve it on that forum, it's a good site. And we've been round in circles with three times already.

Anyway, they're not 'banned' as such, they just cant post.

michaelcaine · 22-02-2006, 01:12 AM

thats cool,your the boss and all,with the argueing aside ciao has given me some great help and advice since i joined this forum,shame for all concerned it has ended like this.

Jon Fuller · 22-02-2006, 01:14 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by michaelcaine
with the argueing aside ciao has given me some great help and advice since i joined this forum,shame for all concerned it has ended like this.

Agreed!

Adam · 22-02-2006, 08:46 AM

All this banning does'nt really seem to be working too well - leads to less people using the forum and a whole load more bad feeling.

Would it not be better just to moderate threads much quicker and stop the situation arising?

Pretty clear where I stand on splashing - but I'm getting bored of this old Phantom / Chaudron issue. Especially so when there are far more relevent cases going on in the boat world at the moment - and to be honest Steve Baker is not trading at the moment.

Generally I think Boadmad works a lot better when dealing with the positives of our sport - be it racing, information, humour etc - but goes downhill rapidly when dealing with negative issues that will provoke different views.

So I would have thought more control through moderating and less banning!

Matt · 22-02-2006, 09:50 AM

In principal, true. But what you don't have visibility of is all the moderating we're already doing! How many times do you have to moderate someone, then have em post that goddamn it it's a free country and they won't be moderated and embark on yet another rant. We try to be flexible and let people speak their mind - but when people are doing it just to stir things up, and aren't really interested in learning, or listening, it all just gets a bit tiresome! We have day jobs too, we don't have time to police everything everyone says. If someone gets moderated, or asked to "moderate" their posting style, most people are happy to do their bit to help - but if someone won't, how many times should we put up with it? How many 2nd chances are there?

It's not a knee jerk reaction, both guys have had lots of opportunities to clean up their act. No "pro" splasher is ever gonna be particularly welcome, but that doesn't mean they can't be involved - there's actually quite a few owners of splashes who are members. But when they come on here extolling the virtues of how much better their splash is than the original, why should we put up with it. Would you be happy if someone splashed your rib hull, claimed how much better they'd made it (despite much evidence to the contrary), and we let em?

Naturally, people will think it's just about phantom, but that's just because Jon is a Phantom fan! The same respect is due to any genuine manufacturer, whether it be Phantom, Extreme, Revenger, Scorpion, K4+, Ocke, etc. But more Phantoms have been splashed than anything else, all across Europe.

So in summary, I take your point, and banning people is very much a last resort. We too are bored to death of it. All kinfast & Ciao needed to do was actually accept chaudron for what they are - splashes. In fact, more than that, all they needed to do was post in such a way as to want a sensible debate, rather than just try to wind Jon up, which was clearly all they were trying to achieve in a number of instances. Well mission accomplished. Being a moderator doesn't elevate us to godhood, things still piss us off just the same as it does everyone else! And when people are actually spending a good deal of effort to build and grow the forum, why should "we" (the royal we), put up with it. It detracts, as you note, from the general good atmosphere of the forum and discourages people from getting involved - and allowing it to continue further wouldn't have had any positive benefits.

There clearly was bad feeling, and by decisively removing the poison, hopefully it won't undermine the rest of the forum. To let their drunken ranting continue would just end up destroying the rest of the forum.

Hopefully, splashing is now done to death and we won't have Ciao & Kinfast trying to cause trouble, so we can all just get on and enjoy our boating a bit more.

WRT to whether or phantom actually made the best boats or not - you're never gonna settle that one, are you!

I will say that I'm sure Steve would never himself have claimed to have made the ultimate hull, and never stopped working to improve then throughout his career - and also had some particularly notable failures too! But if you don't try, you definately don't succeed.

I am wholly behind the exlusion of Ciao and Kinfast - not because they were keen to debate splashing, but because they weren't actually interested in an intelligent debate. The fact the Kinfast is now posting on Scream and Fly and making personal attacks on Jon underlines that he was only ever really out to cause trouble.

Fortunately 99% of the members here are interested in enjoying their boats, give it a little while and this'll all be history, summer'll be here (I might even try and finish the Rumble) and we'll all be charging around the solent enjoying ourselves.

Jon Fuller · 22-02-2006, 10:15 AM

Interestingly, there was a similar situation a year or so ago, ending in a couple of people getting banned, then a load of their mates rallying round with support, and the forum being consumed with debate as to whether they should, or shouldn't have been banned. twoz a mess!

In the end, a whole group were sent packing, the forum was quieter for a short while, then it all improved imeasurably.

This is just the same.

I think this particular chapter is a shame, as when Ciao joined boatmad, his input was good, knowledge of racing years past wasvery interesting and generally added to the forums feel. That had changed tho', and I don't think he really liked boatmad in the end and he just wanted to provoke reaction, especially when lubricated with a little alcohol. Maybe he'll go and start his own website! (didn't he do that a few years back?)

I'd also like to add, that contrary to Kinfasts comments on S&F, not everyone enjoyed his postings, indeed, I had many, many PM's and emails over the recent months saying "why haven't you banned those two?" My fellow moderators also wanted them out, but I actually wanted to work through it. They proved to be right in the end and I was wrong, so there ya go.

lets move on now.

JF

Woody · 22-02-2006, 03:12 PM

John, I think you are right Ciao could be very informative on his racing information and input, but when splitpin and i met with him he always wanted to rub someones nose in it and be a big head and be something that he was not. I alway remember a friend of his bought a car which was originally owned by a friend of mine and he gave me a potted history of it - which was totally wrong, as i knew the history of it from day one, he was horrified when i put him right on it and told the true history of it, after that he did not want to know us as he had been caught out for trying to trade on the back end of somebody else.

I think that it has been for the best you have banned him as he is only interested in his own self importance, as shows by that weak attempt at a website he had in the past which was always trading on the back end of other people. less said the beter but well done John, i used to cringe at some of his posts !!!!!

Rogue Wave · 22-02-2006, 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jon Fuller
Interestingly, there was a similar situation a year or so ago, ending in a couple of people getting banned, then a load of their mates rallying round with support, and the forum being consumed with debate as to whether they should, or shouldn't have been banned. twoz a mess!

lets move on now.

JF

Yes I remember that! to be honest I am quite sorry I returned to the forum!