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17-05-2006, 02:11 PM
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#21
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Registered User
Country: Italy
Location: Viareggio
Occupation: no
Interests: Offshore powerboats/Motor racing
Boat name: no
Boat make: no
Engines: no
Cruising area: no
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Viareggio
Posts: 388
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Quote:
Originally posted by Adam
Remember seeing Pangare Gringo racing many years ago!
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Pangare' Gringo of the brazilian car seller Franz Wallace,raced in England races Needles trophy and CTC in 1975 and won the UIM World Championship in that year.
Then disappear after two races in South America early in the 1976.
The boat,like said me my friend Littlenige,was incidentally destroyed in a attempt to make it a mould. 
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17-05-2006, 02:15 PM
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#22
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numbskull
Country: United Kingdom
Location: South
Occupation: none
Interests: none
Boat name: Leviathan
Boat make: Phantom 28
Cruising area: South Coast
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: South
Posts: 15,959
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Quote:
Originally posted by Black_Tornado
The boat,like said me my friend Littlenige,was incidentally destroyed in a attempt to make it a mould.
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A crime whilst commiting a crime maybe!
Who was trying to take a mould off it? was is legitimate?
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__________________
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"I Agree with everything you say really!" - John Cooke to Jon Fuller - 26-01-2013
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17-05-2006, 02:17 PM
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#23
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Registered User
Country: Italy
Location: Viareggio
Occupation: no
Interests: Offshore powerboats/Motor racing
Boat name: no
Boat make: no
Engines: no
Cruising area: no
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Viareggio
Posts: 388
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Quote:
Originally posted by BluFin
Natural Lite No9
looking at the deck screen lines I reckon it's still Rocky Akoi's one which apart from paint was how it looked when it first came over.
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The Benihana and the Natural Light wasn't the same boat because simply all two raced in the same time in 1978 US National Championship.
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17-05-2006, 02:20 PM
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#24
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Registered User
Country: Italy
Location: Viareggio
Occupation: no
Interests: Offshore powerboats/Motor racing
Boat name: no
Boat make: no
Engines: no
Cruising area: no
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Viareggio
Posts: 388
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jon Fuller
A crime whilst commiting a crime maybe!
Who was trying to take a mould off it? was is legitimate?
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Really. Those guys was very stupid!
Maybe was brazilians friends of Franz.
And the brazilian are not very famous boat builders.... 
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17-05-2006, 03:15 PM
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#25
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Traveling
Country: UK
Location: Alderholt
Occupation: Aerospace
Boat name: T/T D2S
Boat make: Midas 27' Cat, Argo 16 Cat. Avon Rib Thingy
Engines: Merc 280-ROS -JSRE,65Xs, 75 Stinger, Yam 60
Cruising area: Any Seedy Bar
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Alderholt
Posts: 4,225
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Quote:
Originally posted by Black_Tornado
The Benihana and the Natural Light wasn't the same boat because simply all two raced in the same time in 1978 US National Championship.
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I said that perhaps badly worded
Just sitting thinking of the older racers I've seen pass by in actual UK races. What a cracking list. Ghost Rider, Surfury,Telstar, White Tornado,Black Tornado,Red Tornado, The Cigerette, Miss Enfield, Miss Enfield2, Unowot, Yellowdrama, Boss A Nova, Lady Nara, Dry Martini, Fino, Red Iveco, UFO, Avenger Too, Avenger 007, Kaama, heck loads more but what a bloody line up in these few.
Which was the most impressive..........All of them. As for my fav impossible, I could never pick from such a list
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It is impossible to lick your elbow.
Team25Racing.com 
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17-05-2006, 05:29 PM
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#26
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Registered User
Country: UK
Location: South Coast
Interests: Boats/Cranes
Boat make: Revenger 29 RIB
Engines: Illmor V10/625hp.
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: South Coast
Posts: 247
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If you check Searace you can trace its history and i think you will find that Preston Henn was the first owner,and Ted toleman owned only one Bertram.PJC i think should be able to clear up its chequered history.
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17-05-2006, 05:33 PM
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#27
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Registered User
Country: UK
Location: South Coast
Interests: Boats/Cranes
Boat make: Revenger 29 RIB
Engines: Illmor V10/625hp.
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: South Coast
Posts: 247
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Matt ive checked out the link and would only get one if you promise to give me some lessons on how to operate it !! 
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17-05-2006, 06:37 PM
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#28
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Registered User
Country: England
Location: Cowes, Isle of Wight
Occupation: Marine engineer/electrician
Interests: Boat, Landy, and other toys :)
Boat name: Mad Max/Master Fiddler
Boat make: Phantom 18/Fletcher Bravo
Engines: Merc XR2
Cruising area: Solent/IOW
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Cowes, Isle of Wight
Posts: 935
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Cool...it's our green and white sea ray 28 on the end of the jetty down there!!
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Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, grinning from ear to ear, overdosing on adrenaline and proclaiming KINNEL!! WHAT A RIDE!!
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17-05-2006, 06:47 PM
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#29
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Registered User
Country: Italy
Location: Viareggio
Occupation: no
Interests: Offshore powerboats/Motor racing
Boat name: no
Boat make: no
Engines: no
Cruising area: no
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Viareggio
Posts: 388
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Quote:
Originally posted by Gordon McMath
If you check Searace you can trace its history and i think you will find that Preston Henn was the first owner,and Ted toleman owned only one Bertram.PJC i think should be able to clear up its chequered history.
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Of course my informations came from Searace,in part.
However Crouse have made a lot of mistake in him Searace....
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18-05-2006, 07:44 AM
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#30
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Senior Member
Country: Finland
Boat name: Wildfire IV
Boat make: Sleekcraft 21 exec jr.
Engines: Chevy 454
Cruising area: Turku Archipelago/ Finnish Gulf
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 245
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jon Fuller
A crime whilst commiting a crime maybe!
Who was trying to take a mould off it? was is legitimate?
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Who cares...Don Aronow splashed and stole molds he had sold himself.
Those times it wasnīt so picky, sorta like the Asian attitude you leave your wallet somewhere and lose it youīre stupid and the one who hitched it outsmarted you!
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18-05-2006, 09:05 AM
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#31
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numbskull
Country: United Kingdom
Location: South
Occupation: none
Interests: none
Boat name: Leviathan
Boat make: Phantom 28
Cruising area: South Coast
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: South
Posts: 15,959
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Quote:
Originally posted by MikeyFIN
Who cares...Don Aronow splashed and stole molds he had sold himself.
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So because Don Aronow did it, it's ok, right.
He wasn't the designer anyway, it was Walt Walters & Jim Wynne, he was the builder/marketeer.
And I suppose if a burglar gets away with stealing peoples property for years, without getting caught, it's perfectly acceptable because he 'outsmarted' the police and the victim! I think not! That might be the mindset in your part of the world, but as far as i'm concerned, it stinks!
If I designed a succesful boat, and you splashed it without permission or licence, I would be over to burn down your workshop so fast, you'd wish you'd never seen the boat.
I won't be drawn into another discussion about this, you've stated clearly you think it's ok, I've stated clearly that I don't. Whilst weak, feeble and toothless, the law says you own something you creat, so the law agrees with me.
Don't force me to close this thread, just let it be.
__________________
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"I Agree with everything you say really!" - John Cooke to Jon Fuller - 26-01-2013
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19-05-2006, 01:46 PM
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#32
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Senior Member
Country: Finland
Boat name: Wildfire IV
Boat make: Sleekcraft 21 exec jr.
Engines: Chevy 454
Cruising area: Turku Archipelago/ Finnish Gulf
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 245
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jon Fuller
So because Don Aronow did it, it's ok, right.
He wasn't the designer anyway, it was Walt Walters & Jim Wynne, he was the builder/marketeer.
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Beep WrongX2.
It was common in those times that you splashed and no Law was covering the original DESIGNER..happens in fact even today within the 10% rule.
Don Aronow wasnīt only the designer he was the Fabricator who ordered a set of plans, hired the people to build the boats and managed everything so a Final Product was Materialized (Something a designer isnīt able to DO!)
So therefore credit is where credit is due !
Don A had every right to splash and do whatever he wished as the molds and rights was his and paid by him.
But then to leave something out of a sale and then go and get it the same evening or day after is just outsmarting the buyer!
Nothing wrong with that, or do you have problems with those moves mentioned above ( happened with Sales of Formula,Donzi and Cigarette only to become one more, Squadron XII and made Donzi and Cigarrette materialize).
Quote:
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And I suppose if a burglar gets away with stealing peoples property for years, without getting caught, it's perfectly acceptable because he outwitted the police and the victim! I think not!
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Theft is a different thing than outsmarting. seems you have difficulties in seeing which is which.
Quote:
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If I designed a succesful boat, and you splashed it without permission or licence, I would be over to burn down your workshop so fast, you'd wish you'd never seen the boat.
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And who would be charged for arson then and heading for 10+ yrs for jail? Giuess who wouyld continue building boats and who wouldnīt design anything but jailbird tattoos...??
Think before you blunt out !!!!
*American blood in Ya???
If you designed a succesful boat and I splashed it...From WHAT...you only designed it wheres the final product and made by WHOM?
Now the one who actually built your design would be the one to legal rights against my [in this case illegal] splashing NOT THE DESIGNER.
If Iīd get a hold of your plans and copied them and put my name under those copied prints well that would be another thing...and the burden on proof would land on you STILL.
Quote:
I won't be drawn into another discussion about this, you've stated clearly you think it's ok, I've stated clearly that I don't. Whilst weak, feeble and toothless, the law says you own something you creat, so the law agrees with me.
Don't force me to close this thread, just let it be.
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Get the Head out of your Arse Jon and donīt be so F-king Naive and childish.
Splashing happens all the time everywhere.... itīs what makes products better and itīs also called competition.
Take a Bottle of Coca-Cola for example...
I at least want a right to chose not just be forced to drink Only Coke. and sometimes Yes I go to Lidl and Buy Freeway Cola !
FYI before Jon you do anything else in your red mist fury DEFINE Splashing.
My definition is to make a mold of a finished boat hull.
Legal or not thats not the issue, in the years of yesterday it was common practice to splash boats and alter them over 10% and make a new boat or even a marque I see nothing wrong with that because many times the "spalshes" were improvements and superior than the original.
Especially in sailboats.
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19-05-2006, 01:58 PM
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#33
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numbskull
Country: United Kingdom
Location: South
Occupation: none
Interests: none
Boat name: Leviathan
Boat make: Phantom 28
Cruising area: South Coast
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: South
Posts: 15,959
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Quote:
Originally posted by MikeyFIN
Get the Head out of your Arse Jon and donīt be so F-king Naive and childish.
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You're as usual, quite right.
I've been pondering for some time over this, but luckily now, you've helped me decide.
My head is now well clear of my arse and you are now well clear of this forum.
See ya.
PS. you're wrong, Aronow wasn't a designer.
And plenty of designers do, design, build, test, race, manufacture and market their own products.
__________________
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"I Agree with everything you say really!" - John Cooke to Jon Fuller - 26-01-2013
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19-05-2006, 02:02 PM
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#34
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 6,891
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Jeezus Christ Mikey, why can't you just agree to disagree for once, rather than blatantly trying to rev Jon up!
Congratulations on ruining a good thread!
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19-05-2006, 02:25 PM
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#35
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Traveling
Country: UK
Location: Alderholt
Occupation: Aerospace
Boat name: T/T D2S
Boat make: Midas 27' Cat, Argo 16 Cat. Avon Rib Thingy
Engines: Merc 280-ROS -JSRE,65Xs, 75 Stinger, Yam 60
Cruising area: Any Seedy Bar
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Alderholt
Posts: 4,225
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jon Fuller
you are now well clear of this forum.
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Has Elvis now been removed from the building 
Back on track Bertram is lovley really nice offshore lines
__________________
It is impossible to lick your elbow.
Team25Racing.com
At least 75% of people who read this will try to lick their elbow!
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19-05-2006, 02:30 PM
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#36
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numbskull
Country: United Kingdom
Location: South
Occupation: none
Interests: none
Boat name: Leviathan
Boat make: Phantom 28
Cruising area: South Coast
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: South
Posts: 15,959
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Quote:
Originally posted by BluFin
Has Elvis now been removed from the building
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More of a Marc Almond than an Elvis, but yes, MikeyFIN will not be posting anymore on Boatmad.
He spent a good few months trying to wind the Yanks up, and nearly as much time trying to be as contensious as possible with me. I really can't be bothered anymore with it all.
__________________
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"I Agree with everything you say really!" - John Cooke to Jon Fuller - 26-01-2013
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19-05-2006, 02:32 PM
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#37
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Traveling
Country: UK
Location: Alderholt
Occupation: Aerospace
Boat name: T/T D2S
Boat make: Midas 27' Cat, Argo 16 Cat. Avon Rib Thingy
Engines: Merc 280-ROS -JSRE,65Xs, 75 Stinger, Yam 60
Cruising area: Any Seedy Bar
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Alderholt
Posts: 4,225
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Overdue IMHO
 not
__________________
It is impossible to lick your elbow.
Team25Racing.com
At least 75% of people who read this will try to lick their elbow!
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19-05-2006, 02:34 PM
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#38
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numbskull
Country: United Kingdom
Location: South
Occupation: none
Interests: none
Boat name: Leviathan
Boat make: Phantom 28
Cruising area: South Coast
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: South
Posts: 15,959
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Quote:
Originally posted by BluFin
Back on track Bertram is lovley really nice offshore lines
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Couldn't agree more, looks great!
Though by 'your' definition, it's a dog!
__________________
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"I Agree with everything you say really!" - John Cooke to Jon Fuller - 26-01-2013
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19-05-2006, 02:35 PM
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#39
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Registered User
Country: Italy
Location: Viareggio
Occupation: no
Interests: Offshore powerboats/Motor racing
Boat name: no
Boat make: no
Engines: no
Cruising area: no
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Viareggio
Posts: 388
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Quote:
Originally posted by BluFin
Has Elvis now been removed from the building
Back on track Bertram is lovley really nice offshore lines
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Waw! At least a pictures of Bertram 38!
There are someone?! 
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19-05-2006, 02:37 PM
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#40
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numbskull
Country: United Kingdom
Location: South
Occupation: none
Interests: none
Boat name: Leviathan
Boat make: Phantom 28
Cruising area: South Coast
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: South
Posts: 15,959
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Quote:
Originally posted by Black_Tornado
Waw! At least a pictures of Bertram 38!
There are someone?!
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There are actually quite a few in the Gallery under 'littlenige's gallery'
have a look here:
http://media.boatmad.com/gallery/v/littlenige/
could take you while to sift through them all though, there a feckin hundreds of em.
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__________________
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"I Agree with everything you say really!" - John Cooke to Jon Fuller - 26-01-2013
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