boat behaviour of different hull types

[Burty]

even from that one little picture i could have told you straight away that it wasn't a P20

[Toffy]

I have only one reaction to that :

[JamesM]

Originally posted by Toffy
I think rings are better...

Just out of interest if you think Rings are better then why were you looking to buy a Phantom?

[Toffy]

Clever remark...
Well, when I started this thread I gave following ranking :
1. Bernico
2. Ring
3. Phantom

I still think the same. I think I can't go wrong with any of these boat-types. I'm looking for a project within my budget. I 'd like to upgrade from my 16ft Ring to a smoother 20 or 21ft speedboat. In Belgium and Holland, Bernico's are too expensive and Rings seem to be very rare. I'm looking for quite a while and now I've found 2 possible Phantom projects...

Also this thread shows that the performance difference between a ring and phantom in general is not that big... There are a lot of phantom drivers here an boatmad, I think they will agree on the fact that phantoms are fantastic boats.

So far, I don't have any Phantom experience, I'm looking forward to buy and drive one...

[JamesM]

Originally posted by Toffy
I also read on the forum that someone considered a 'phantom' as an 'improved ring'. Probably a die hard phantom fan

However, recently I've been told a phantom hull behaves fairly well in corners, but not as good as a ring which 'slides' more and doesn't hook...

stepped bottom should be top of the bill in corners...

So to conclude:

Steve Baker copied Mikes Rings design and improved on it?

But failed cus Phantoms are more prone to hooking than Rings?

And stepped hulls are the best for taking corners fast?

Correct?

[red 5]

HHHHMMMMM bit of a strange comment. If you look at both ring and phantom you can see their is no copying going on. All aspects of both boats are totally different. You can chat all day which boat is better but a incorrect set up phantom will behave like a skip same as a incorrect set up ring or what ever boat you care to mention. Their are so many forces which influence the handeling of any boat ,I think you will find that the handeling problems will be with the driver or the wrong prop. Also say you have a phantom set up for racing you can not waterski with it. Any hull has to be set up for each application the boat is going to be used for. So you can not realy compare any boat untill you have them all in the same application. But to try and answer you question " which is best" If you are to race in ocr you would have to pick the Phantom 18, 19 or even the Bernico and yet again its down to the driver weather he wins or not.

[1up]

Originally posted by Johnny Boat Dude
So to conclude:

Steve Baker copied Mikes Rings design and improved on it?

But failed cus Phantoms are more prone to hooking than Rings?

And stepped hulls are the best for taking corners fast?

Correct?

I dont think this is true because I'm fairly sure phantoms were made first

[Toffy]

Originally posted by Johnny Boat Dude
So to conclude:

Steve Baker copied Mikes Rings design and improved on it?

But failed cus Phantoms are more prone to hooking than Rings?

And stepped hulls are the best for taking corners fast?

Correct?

How should we reply to idiotic comment and incorrect quotes?
Yup... we don't
Let's continue mate

[Jon Fuller]

Originally posted by Toffy
How should we reply to idiotic comment and incorrect quotes?
Yup... we don't
Let's continue mate

Calm down, calm down!!

Johnny was just being a little sarcastic, having a laugh.

FWIW, In my opinion, if any of the designs mentioned have a particular tendency towards hooking, it's the Ring, due mainly to it's forward spray rail design, hence their nickname in some circles of, 'The Happy Hooker'.

JMHO

[cfun]

Jf, having raced with TD in the 26 Extreme did you ever get close to hooking it, although I guess the hull may be different in deadrise across some of it's section compared to the 21 footers, and it's length width ratio may differ as well

[Jon Fuller]

Like I said, just my humble opinion.

[cfun]

not attacking your opinion JF, just curious if the Ring hull in a much larger size like 26ft had ever got close to hooking like the painfull one I had in the 21

[cfun]

come to think of it I did watch you and TD race it in the local races it always seemed to go well and to me a spectator it looked like it was well sorted flying level and sounding good and from what I recall mostly leading your class

[JamesM]

Originally posted by Toffy
How should we reply to idiotic comment and incorrect quotes?
Yup... we don't
Let's continue mate

I was just being a bit sarcastic hence the joking smiley face. The picture that's been painted by this thread is that Phantoms are prone to hooking (more so than Rings) and that simply isn't true!!!

[Toffy]

OK no problem mate, see the cheers smiley above
Maybe I was a bit too explicit in my English, my native language is in fact Dutch you know... so sorry.

As I read you and JF correctly :
Rings are more prone to hooking than phantoms, and not the other way around. I didn't knew Rings where nicknamed 'The Happy Hookers'... :-) I know my ring has a slight tendency to hook, I've just never driven a Phantom before here in Belgium, so I can't make a good comparison...

Think I'll change my ranking now :
1. Bernico
2. Phantom
3. Ring

I'm feeling quite confident know, buying a phantom in the (hopefully) near future. Feel free to add further comment...
T.

[Jon Fuller]

Originally posted by cfun
Jf, having raced with TD in the 26 Extreme did you ever get close to hooking it

Yes, many times. But to be fair, on the occasions that the boat did actually hook, there were outside forces involved.

It did feel like an event just waiting to happen though, and with the intervention of a little too much in-trim, and those FWD rails grab, ....then you're just a passenger.

The upside of that design is (IMHO) it has very good recovery, so is pretty hard to stuff unless you get it really wrong.

I've always liked the Phantom design, as to me, they feel more neutral as far as directional & roll stability is concerned.
You see, I'm a bit of a girl, and I find the feeling of an involuntary '180' at speed extremely disconcerting. I've driven a few designs that have that feel built in, and it scares shit outta me!

Originally posted by Toffy
Think I'll change my ranking now :
1. Bernico
2. Phantom
3. Ring

I'm feeling quite confident know, buying a phantom in the (hopefully) near future. Feel free to add further comment...
T.

I'm more than a little biased, but I'd say you're heading in the right direction.......still a ways to go, but heading the right way.

[cfun]

cheers JF guess it just goes to show it does not matter if your racing a 21 in the 50's (it was the 80's) or a 26 in the 70's hooking is a real fear, like I said before though you guys made it look easy and all under control to the spectator

[Jon Fuller]

Originally posted by cfun
like I said before though you guys made it look easy and all under control

Don't be fooled!

Most of the time racing, was a frantic battle to keep TD's hand off my knee!

The more intense the racing, the more he thought he could get away with it unnoticed!

The dirty git.

[mike k]

You've got me concerned now John. I haven't run my Ring 20 yet so don't know quite how it's going to handle, but I must admit I do like to drive slightly "loose" ie trimmed out so hopefully the hooking syndrome shouldn't be a problem...........

[Jon Fuller]

Don't be concerned, It's really just my opinion, which as most will tell you, 'aint worth shit' anyway.

I'm sure ya R20'll be great. TD will be producing a re-vamped version of that from next season.