Boatmad.com


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 16-11-2006, 11:58 PM   #1
Registered User
 
Toffy's Avatar
 
Country: Belgium
Location: near Ghent
Occupation: engineer
Interests: boating, wakeboarding, snowboarding, fitness
Boat name: Outlaw
Boat make: Phantom 21ft
Engines: Yamaha 200hp
Cruising area: Zele / Kanaal Gent-Terneuzen

Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: near Ghent
Posts: 473
Arrow boat behaviour of different hull types

Hi guys,

I'd like your opinion upon different hulls.
To be more specific waterski racing hulls like bernico's, rings and phantoms.

Is it possible to make some kind of a ranking in boat behaviour ?
how do these hulls perform in straight line, is their more or less tendency to chinewalk, how do they perform while cornering,... Can we simplify things and try to leave out enginetype and hull-length ?

to me it's :
1. bernico
2. ring
3. phantom


I always thought phantoms 'were better' than rings. Second hand hull prices on the internet more or less confirm this. I also read on the forum that someone considered a 'phantom' as an 'improved ring'. Probably a die hard phantom fan However, recently I've been told a phantom hull behaves fairly well in corners, but not as good as a ring which 'slides' more and doesn't hook... Bernico's with stepped bottom should be top of the bill in straight line + also in corners...
I only have experience in driving a 16ft and 21ft ring. Since my next boat is probably gonna be a '94 20ft phantom I'm very much interested in boat behavior of this phantom.

Please share any usefull comment on this.
Feel free to include other but similar hull types.

Thx! T.
__________________

Toffy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-11-2006, 09:22 AM   #2
Registered User
 
Burty's Avatar
 
Country: UK
Location: Weston Super Mare
Occupation: Electrical Engineer

Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Weston Super Mare
Posts: 6,351
Send a message via AIM to Burty
Re: boat behaviour of different hull types

Quote:
Originally posted by Toffy

not as good as a ring which 'slides' more and doesn't hook...
Right o

Quote:
Originally posted by Toffy

Bernico's with stepped bottom should be top of the bill in straight line + also in corners...
the step doesn't make any difference to outright speed as its near the front, ultimately in flat conditions a phantom is quicker than the bernico as its lighter and narrower so less hull in the water but as for any other types of sea state the bernico will wipe the floor with anything else out there.
__________________

Burty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-11-2006, 10:30 AM   #3
Chief C*nt!
 
Johnny Rocket's Avatar
 
Country: United Kingdom
Location: Brighton
Occupation: Sparkler prefect
Interests: Boats
Boat make: Other people's mostly

Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Brighton
Posts: 872
__________________
What could possibly go wrong?
Johnny Rocket is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-11-2006, 10:38 AM   #4
Registered User
 
Tony Davis's Avatar
 
Country: Job Centre
Location: In a box
Occupation: Chaos's gofer
Interests: Skiving
Boat make: Spectre 30
Engines: 2 x Promax 225
Cruising area: In the bath

Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: In a box
Posts: 5,201
Quote:
Originally posted by Johnny Rocket
This should be good!
__________________
Chaos for Moderator.
Tony Davis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-11-2006, 02:17 PM   #5
Registered User
 
TobyC's Avatar
 
Country: Jersey
Location: Jersey
Cruising area: UK

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Jersey
Posts: 223
ah the old arguement. Am looking forward to this one. Think I will side with the Phantom crew!
TobyC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-11-2006, 04:08 PM   #6
Registered User
 
stumpy's Avatar
 
Country: England
Location: colnbrook
Occupation: Transport Consultant
Interests: Powerboat racing, Ice hockey and aviation.
Boat name: Vines BMW
Boat make: B23
Engines: Evinrude 115HO
Cruising area: South coast

Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: colnbrook
Posts: 221
Having just purchased a 20ft Phantom, I am also interested in this info.

I used to have 16ft Phantom that was prone to hooking on tight corners, but handled well in most conditions. I have been advised that the 20ft Phantom may struggle in corners on a tight course, eg OCR. Old beardy would be the best man to speak to, ref that hull. OCRDA is perhaps the oracle of knowledge ref the Bernico.

I have to say that I prefer the Phantom rather than the argo I used to have. Not familiar with the Ring or Bernico.

Hope this helps.
stumpy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-11-2006, 05:07 PM   #7
BananaShark Member
 
Cookee's Avatar
 
Country: UK
Location: Salcombe South Devon
Occupation: Racer and builder
Interests: Winning races
Boat name: BananaShark
Boat make: BananaShark 34' Race
Engines: Twin Yanmar BY 260's

Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Salcombe South Devon
Posts: 4,633
Old Beardy had a Phantom 21 - of course that doesn't mean he doesn't know anything about 20's!
__________________
Cookee



British Champions! RIB Formula 1 2005
National Speed Record Holder at 90.15 (still)

www.bananasharkracing.com
Cookee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-11-2006, 06:34 PM   #8
Registered User
 
Country: uk

Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 308
It's all down to how you drive the thing Phantom, bernico, ring, whatever and prop choice. But ask youself which make of boats have won many many championships both past and present. "answers anybody".
red 5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-11-2006, 07:16 PM   #9
Taz
Registered User
 
Country: Essex
Location: Great Stambridge Essex
Occupation: Director Paving company
Interests: Boating/Squash
Cruising area: Essex Marina/crouch southeast coast

Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Great Stambridge Essex
Posts: 2,033
My p20 didnt like cornering but i thihk it was due to the prop and the way i use to drive it
Taz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-11-2006, 07:20 PM   #10
Registered User
 
Toffy's Avatar
 
Country: Belgium
Location: near Ghent
Occupation: engineer
Interests: boating, wakeboarding, snowboarding, fitness
Boat name: Outlaw
Boat make: Phantom 21ft
Engines: Yamaha 200hp
Cruising area: Zele / Kanaal Gent-Terneuzen

Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: near Ghent
Posts: 473
Thx for the replies. Think I've hit the jackpot with this thread... feeling bit popular

Bernico got famous winning its verry first waterski-race. Simply because it's a very well designed boat.
I said it before : can't help being a bit patriotic about this

So what's the conclusion so far on phantoms ?
They are unbeatable in a straight line in flat conditions, but they 'hook' more while cornering ?
Toffy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-11-2006, 07:29 PM   #11
Gav
Registered User
 

Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 5,724
Send a message via Skype™ to Gav
Quote:
Originally posted by Toffy
Thx for the replies. Think I've hit the jackpot with this thread... feeling bit popular

Bernico got famous winning its verry first waterski-race. Simply because it's a very well designed boat.
I said it before : can't help being a bit patriotic about this

So what's the conclusion so far on phantoms ?
They are unbeatable in a straight line in flat conditions, but they 'hook' more while cornering ?
i dont think the Phantom "hooks" other than driver error, as is the same for most hull designs. the reason the Phantom is so quick in a straight line is the hull was designed for that purpose, the way the strakes are set is the optimum setup running surface for speed, the cornering capabilities of a phantom are very good in the right hands, i had first hand experience sat in the navs seat in old beardy's P21!

Rings & Bernico's i cannot comment on, never been in either!
Gav is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-11-2006, 07:31 PM   #12
Registered User
 
Country: UK
Location: Swansea
Occupation: Computer Director
Interests: Anything with an engine
Boat name: Too Blue
Boat make: RIB 9m
Engines: Suzuki 225efi
Cruising area: Bristol Channel/Irish Sea

Join Date: May 2005
Location: Swansea
Posts: 101
From what I saw with my own beady eyes the Bernico was the best when it was flat calm but just couldn't cope when it got rough.
codprawn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-11-2006, 07:44 PM   #13
den
Registered User
 
Boat make: Searay 215EC
Engines: Mercruiser 5.0L

Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 67
So whats the best in twin rig set up?
den is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-11-2006, 08:17 PM   #14
Registered User
 
Country: Lymington UK

Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 501
thought rings were faster then phantoms in the flat as they were more flatter at the stern, less deep v ??
Admiral P. Brain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-11-2006, 08:39 PM   #15
Taz
Registered User
 
Country: Essex
Location: Great Stambridge Essex
Occupation: Director Paving company
Interests: Boating/Squash
Cruising area: Essex Marina/crouch southeast coast

Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Great Stambridge Essex
Posts: 2,033
Quote:
Originally posted by den
So whats the best in twin rig set up?
A SEAQUEL
__________________
[
Taz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-11-2006, 08:46 PM   #16
Registered User
 
S2art's Avatar
 
Country: United Kingdom
Location: Dartford
Occupation: Maintenance Engineer
Interests: What apart from powerboating. Football, other forms of motorsport
Boat name: Tintorera Racing
Boat make: Tintorera 20
Engines: Yamaha 90
Cruising area: Medway / South Coast

Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Dartford
Posts: 58
One boat that no one's mentioned is the 20' Tintorera. Very rare in the UK, but very quick both in a straight line and with cornering. I was consistantly quicker than a P16 with the same power, when I raced one in ocr. I believe Old Beardy did run a P20 in OCR as well as a P18 before going offshore. I would put the Ring at the bottom of my list, didn't they have a problem of dropping onto their left side without warning. The one I went in once when I was a teenager did, scared the pants off me, Clive Jones was driving it and he's a pretty good driver.
S2art is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-11-2006, 08:52 PM   #17
Registered User
 
TobyC's Avatar
 
Country: Jersey
Location: Jersey
Cruising area: UK

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Jersey
Posts: 223
have raced agaist tints, rings and phantoms and all can be very quick with the right set up and in the right hands. Personal opinion would be that overall the Phantom copes with most things best as for hooking just dont trim in so damn hard and let it slip a little! Not been mentioned yet but the best handling 2 litre boat I ever drove was the Forgecraft
TobyC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-11-2006, 10:33 PM   #18
Registered User
 
"Old beardy"'s Avatar
 
Country: England
Location: Cornwall
Occupation: Civil Engineer in the water industry
Interests: Powerboat racing, travel, curries, zimmers
Boat name: "N" Class fabrication
Boat make: B23
Engines: 200XS
Cruising area: Torbay & Falmouth

Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Cornwall
Posts: 478
Quote:
Originally posted by S2art
[B I believe Old Beardy did run a P20 in OCR as well as a P18 before going offshore. I [/B]
We ran a P20 in OCR for 7 years and then a P18 for two seasons, both great boats once you get used to driving them. The P18 was awesome in the turns and I can honestly say the P20 saved my life in a race when we hit the wash off a gin palace at 70mph and came back down to earth from 30feet in the air. I think most other boats would have broken up upon re-entry. My navigator was not quite so lucky, needing 13 stitches in his face!! Apart from blowing off all the gelcoat on the starboard rear quarter the boat was fine and we were able to race the following day. The P21 we ran in class 3 handled like a big 18, the handling being very predictable.
"Old beardy" is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-11-2006, 11:24 PM   #19
hello
 

Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 2,739
Quote:
Originally posted by codprawn
From what I saw with my own beady eyes the Bernico was the best when it was flat calm but just couldn't cope when it got rough.
What type of Bernico are you refering to? Cyco's Bernico F2 was absolutley stunning in the rough. Everyone who ever drove or went in it including many P20 and P21 owners would all coment on just how stable and easy it was to drive when it roughed up.
JamesM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-11-2006, 10:07 AM   #20
Senior Member
 
hutchy's Avatar
 
Location: the narf
Occupation: give up
Interests: triple rigs
Boat name: which one
Boat make: 25 phantom 26 puma cat,30 pima cat,25 phantom 30 flipper,
Engines: triple 2.5 efis
Cruising area: blackpool prom at dusk

Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: the narf
Posts: 244
Quote:
Originally posted by "Old beardy"
We ran a P20 in OCR for 7 years and then a P18 for two seasons, both great boats once you get used to driving them. The P18 was awesome in the turns and I can honestly say the P20 saved my life in a race when we hit the wash off a gin palace at 70mph and came back down to earth from 30feet in the air. I think most other boats would have broken up upon re-entry. My navigator was not quite so lucky, needing 13 stitches in his face!! Apart from blowing off all the gelcoat on the starboard rear quarter the boat was fine and we were able to race the following day. The P21 we ran in class 3 handled like a big 18, the handling being very predictable.
majorca,good old dredgy
__________________

hutchy is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT +1. The time now is 05:35 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
×