boat behaviour of different hull types

Toffy · 16-11-2006, 10:58 PM

Hi guys,

I'd like your opinion upon different hulls.
To be more specific waterski racing hulls like bernico's, rings and phantoms.

Is it possible to make some kind of a ranking in boat behaviour ?
how do these hulls perform in straight line, is their more or less tendency to chinewalk, how do they perform while cornering,... Can we simplify things and try to leave out enginetype and hull-length ?

to me it's :
1. bernico
2. ring
3. phantom

I always thought phantoms 'were better' than rings. Second hand hull prices on the internet more or less confirm this. I also read on the forum that someone considered a 'phantom' as an 'improved ring'. Probably a die hard phantom fan

However, recently I've been told a phantom hull behaves fairly well in corners, but not as good as a ring which 'slides' more and doesn't hook... Bernico's with stepped bottom should be top of the bill in straight line + also in corners...
I only have experience in driving a 16ft and 21ft ring. Since my next boat is probably gonna be a '94 20ft phantom I'm very much interested in boat behavior of this phantom.

Please share any usefull comment on this.
Feel free to include other but similar hull types.

Thx! T.

Burty · 17-11-2006, 08:22 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Toffy

not as good as a ring which 'slides' more and doesn't hook...

Right o

Quote:

Originally posted by Toffy

Bernico's with stepped bottom should be top of the bill in straight line + also in corners...

the step doesn't make any difference to outright speed as its near the front, ultimately in flat conditions a phantom is quicker than the bernico as its lighter and narrower so less hull in the water but as for any other types of sea state the bernico will wipe the floor with anything else out there.

Johnny Rocket · 17-11-2006, 09:30 AM

Tony Davis · 17-11-2006, 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Johnny Rocket

This should be good!

TobyC · 17-11-2006, 01:17 PM

ah the old arguement. Am looking forward to this one. Think I will side with the Phantom crew!

stumpy · 17-11-2006, 03:08 PM

Having just purchased a 20ft Phantom, I am also interested in this info.

I used to have 16ft Phantom that was prone to hooking on tight corners, but handled well in most conditions. I have been advised that the 20ft Phantom may struggle in corners on a tight course, eg OCR. Old beardy would be the best man to speak to, ref that hull. OCRDA is perhaps the oracle of knowledge ref the Bernico.

I have to say that I prefer the Phantom rather than the argo I used to have. Not familiar with the Ring or Bernico.

Hope this helps.

Cookee · 17-11-2006, 04:07 PM

Old Beardy had a Phantom 21 - of course that doesn't mean he doesn't know anything about 20's!

red 5 · 17-11-2006, 05:34 PM

It's all down to how you drive the thing Phantom, bernico, ring, whatever and prop choice. But ask youself which make of boats have won many many championships both past and present. "answers anybody".

Taz · 17-11-2006, 06:16 PM

My p20 didnt like cornering but i thihk it was due to the prop and the way i use to drive it

Toffy · 17-11-2006, 06:20 PM

Thx for the replies. Think I've hit the jackpot with this thread... feeling bit popular

Bernico got famous winning its verry first waterski-race. Simply because it's a very well designed boat.
I said it before : can't help being a bit patriotic about this

So what's the conclusion so far on phantoms ?
They are unbeatable in a straight line in flat conditions, but they 'hook' more while cornering ?

Gav · 17-11-2006, 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Toffy
Thx for the replies. Think I've hit the jackpot with this thread... feeling bit popular

Bernico got famous winning its verry first waterski-race. Simply because it's a very well designed boat.
I said it before : can't help being a bit patriotic about this

So what's the conclusion so far on phantoms ?
They are unbeatable in a straight line in flat conditions, but they 'hook' more while cornering ?

i dont think the Phantom "hooks" other than driver error, as is the same for most hull designs. the reason the Phantom is so quick in a straight line is the hull was designed for that purpose, the way the strakes are set is the optimum setup running surface for speed, the cornering capabilities of a phantom are very good in the right hands, i had first hand experience sat in the navs seat in old beardy's P21!

Rings & Bernico's i cannot comment on, never been in either!

codprawn · 17-11-2006, 06:31 PM

From what I saw with my own beady eyes the Bernico was the best when it was flat calm but just couldn't cope when it got rough.

den · 17-11-2006, 06:44 PM

So whats the best in twin rig set up?

Admiral P. Brain · 17-11-2006, 07:17 PM

thought rings were faster then phantoms in the flat as they were more flatter at the stern, less deep v ??

Taz · 17-11-2006, 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by den
So whats the best in twin rig set up?

A SEAQUEL

S2art · 17-11-2006, 07:46 PM

One boat that no one's mentioned is the 20' Tintorera. Very rare in the UK, but very quick both in a straight line and with cornering. I was consistantly quicker than a P16 with the same power, when I raced one in ocr. I believe Old Beardy did run a P20 in OCR as well as a P18 before going offshore. I would put the Ring at the bottom of my list, didn't they have a problem of dropping onto their left side without warning. The one I went in once when I was a teenager did, scared the pants off me, Clive Jones was driving it and he's a pretty good driver.

TobyC · 17-11-2006, 07:52 PM

have raced agaist tints, rings and phantoms and all can be very quick with the right set up and in the right hands. Personal opinion would be that overall the Phantom copes with most things best as for hooking just dont trim in so damn hard and let it slip a little! Not been mentioned yet but the best handling 2 litre boat I ever drove was the Forgecraft

"Old beardy" · 17-11-2006, 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by S2art
[B I believe Old Beardy did run a P20 in OCR as well as a P18 before going offshore. I [/B]

We ran a P20 in OCR for 7 years and then a P18 for two seasons, both great boats once you get used to driving them. The P18 was awesome in the turns and I can honestly say the P20 saved my life in a race when we hit the wash off a gin palace at 70mph and came back down to earth from 30feet in the air. I think most other boats would have broken up upon re-entry. My navigator was not quite so lucky, needing 13 stitches in his face!! Apart from blowing off all the gelcoat on the starboard rear quarter the boat was fine and we were able to race the following day. The P21 we ran in class 3 handled like a big 18, the handling being very predictable.

JamesM · 17-11-2006, 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by codprawn
From what I saw with my own beady eyes the Bernico was the best when it was flat calm but just couldn't cope when it got rough.

What type of Bernico are you refering to? Cyco's Bernico F2 was absolutley stunning in the rough. Everyone who ever drove or went in it including many P20 and P21 owners would all coment on just how stable and easy it was to drive when it roughed up.

hutchy · 18-11-2006, 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by "Old beardy"
We ran a P20 in OCR for 7 years and then a P18 for two seasons, both great boats once you get used to driving them. The P18 was awesome in the turns and I can honestly say the P20 saved my life in a race when we hit the wash off a gin palace at 70mph and came back down to earth from 30feet in the air. I think most other boats would have broken up upon re-entry. My navigator was not quite so lucky, needing 13 stitches in his face!! Apart from blowing off all the gelcoat on the starboard rear quarter the boat was fine and we were able to race the following day. The P21 we ran in class 3 handled like a big 18, the handling being very predictable.

majorca,good old dredgy