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Old 16-05-2009, 09:47 AM   #21
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Certainly not knocking Delboy, as he said above, he believed at the time he was buying an original and therefore has been caught regardless of what he paid.

Whilst you and I would wax lyrical about the capabilities of SB as designer and builder, it is true to say that he's not the only person in the world with those capabilities.

What clearly comes out of this is that RAF, Chaudron and many others are incapable of designing and building a product that elevates their perceived capabilities in boat bulding without resorting to utilising Steves well deserved reputation.

Is that because they don't have those abilities?

Delboy aside, who has been nothing but honest with his advert, there are individuals, who with the knowledge should, know better than to try and pass off a copy as original too.

The damage as you say is occurring to owners of originals, but the situation would be that much worse if Steve were still trading or indeed wanted to recommence trading.

Who'd of thought it would be down to one individual to show how it should be done above board. And ginger at that
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Old 16-05-2009, 09:55 AM   #22
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At 72 years young, I don't think we'll see Steve Baker recommencing trading, he's very much retired.

The Chaudr*n stepped 41 has been pretty successful, so I guess credit where it's due, even though it's foundations are clearly in the P28, it's very different now.

Mind you, It's still my opinion that they're a bunch of low-life Maltese wankers.
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Old 16-05-2009, 10:59 AM   #23
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Dont sit on the fence Jon, say what you mean....
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Old 16-05-2009, 11:44 AM   #24
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read last year the Americans had tightened the law on splashing hulls in their country which would be sensible given no doubt the costs of design/building and testing in probably the largest market for that type of boat in the world, but it would not stop the Mexicans say copying an Outerlimits hull or any other country I suspect so the problem continues, although it's a pity the Europeans never got together a long time back and established a set of parameters for the industry that were more easily enforcible by country's
the other big problem as I see it is the whole of our culture is often based on taking someone else's idea and expanding on it, however I have always been p*%ed at some people that directly copy others or mascaraed as something similar that has been successful but the list is always endless in my mind, take the supermarkets for instance ...
http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/consume...5&in_page_id=5
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Old 16-05-2009, 01:59 PM   #25
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Emotions aside..........

Delboy bought a boat which I presume he believed to be a genuine Phantom from representations made by the vendor, and presumably any such representations were purely made to enhance the value and/or marketing of the boat and mislead the purchaser into purchasing, whilst the general rule of caveat emptor has presidency, by and large, there is a legal presumption that a seller makes certain warranties unless the buyer and the seller agree otherwise. One such Warranty is the Implied Warranty of merchantability. A vendor who is in the business of regularly selling a particular type of goods has still greater responsibilities in dealing with an average customer. A person purchasing a car from a car dealer, or jewellery from a jeweller, is justified in his or her reliance on the expertise of the seller.
The Misrepresentation which has taken place would void the contract and the purchaser would be entitled to damages. The fact that the vendor knowingly made the misrepresentation on the grounds of financial gain and/or merchantability would bring such a misrepresentation into the realms of being malicious.

The Courts look upon Malicious Representation very dimly.

The real question is would Delboy have bought the boat knowing it was not a Phantom - it the answer is yes he would then no harm has been done, if on the other hand the answer is No he would be entitled to pursue an action against the vendor for the recovery of the purchase price plus his costs incurred in the purchase.
Steve on the other hand would have to pursue an action on the ground of infringement of Copyright (The copyright may well have lapsed by now)

In both cases the burden of proof would be on the claimant.

Does this answer your question???
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Old 16-05-2009, 02:39 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pash 1 View Post
Emotions aside..........

The real question is would Delboy have bought the boat knowing it was not a Phantom - it the answer is yes he would then no harm has been done, if on the other hand the answer is No he would be entitled to pursue an action against the vendor for the recovery of the purchase price plus his costs incurred in the purchase.
Steve on the other hand would have to pursue an action on the ground of infringement of Copyright (The copyright may well have lapsed by now)

In both cases the burden of proof would be on the claimant.

Does this answer your question???
As you say Pash this is a similar case to what you describe ...

back in the 90's I purchased a flat with what turned out to be 3 years later a duff lease, to cut a long story short the legal company I sued said as I had purchased many flats and sold them on I was more of a property developer and therefore was purchasing on price and as the flat was cheap it should of been assumed their were problems and I would have still purchased it on those grounds regardless, however after 5 years of fighting we agreed on a settlement before the case came to court, however I still have the b*%tard rented out and can't see myself getting shot of it for a long time yet
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Old 17-05-2009, 11:01 AM   #27
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Hi, although owning and using boats inluding phantom ring and chauldron i was looking for a ring 21 but had always wanted a twin rig, so when i came across the add for tax rebate i had to have a look, there was a lot wrong with it that i could tell and im no expert, i noticed the steps and was surprised but it was not the sellers boat so he knew nothing about it lol i was after a mecury but yamaha seemed to have a good record so i heard them run and left, checked on the net and found another phantom 28 for sale almost identical for sale over 30000 which is apparently perfect and working out in my mind that with all its problems it was a good buy, turned out talking to russel powerboats they are both fakes but by then i had paid 7100 for it , spent months getting stuff working and had gone to the lake to see if they would let me test it, they did , disaster although it did float, overheating, broken gearbox, air in the steering again, new winch of ebay slipping, and so on, WHAT NOW, I HAVE A FAKE AND IT DONT GO On the bright side it still eye catching and gets a lot of interest, i then find out how much real ones go for and could never afford one, and now having worked on this boat did not want a single ring 21, omg i was going to keep it, what am i doing, in looking for a gearbox lh instead of a normal being run in reverse ifond a complete pair of vx250s with everything which came off a real p28 that ran triples, i believe its up for sale now also with newer engines, then i started at the back and changed everything as i went and was going to start on a cuddy but recession has hit and the money i am asking for the boat is realistic and a loss for me but i cant afford to use it so just in my dads way sorry if i bored anyone but you dont have to red my posts
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Old 17-05-2009, 11:32 AM   #28
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I know that 'banging your head against a brick wall' feeling!
Look on the bright side, the engines are good and she's not falling apart, so she can't be that bad! Looks like she'll be a great deal for someone to me!
What length are the legs on the new motors?

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Old 17-05-2009, 11:55 AM   #29
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Larby

Hi, tell me about it, they are ultra long shaft engines, under the covers they are very clean with all rubbers and bits and pieces, you know, all the annoying bits, the marks on the outside are from when there was 3 on the back of a p28 and they used to hit each other, with working digital clocks/gauges, cheers Del
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Old 17-05-2009, 05:43 PM   #30
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Hi Delboy do you know where this p28 for sale is ?
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Old 17-05-2009, 06:06 PM   #31
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For Sale

Which one ? the real one, Power Products Marine with twin Yamaha
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Old 17-05-2009, 10:48 PM   #32
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Thanks I know of that one thought it might be another.
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Old 22-05-2009, 04:26 PM   #33
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Here is an other one , it has been for sale for ages ..........
Btw it is also advertised as an original Phantom28
http://www.botentekoop.nl/speed-en-s...m-28-2006.html
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Old 22-05-2009, 04:30 PM   #34
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steps

Hi, if its real so was mine Del
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Old 22-05-2009, 05:28 PM   #35
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This example doesnt even look like a 28 - more like a 23 or 25 with steps !!!
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Old 22-05-2009, 05:35 PM   #36
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nice steering wheel
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Old 22-05-2009, 06:11 PM   #37
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And whats with the port holes?
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Old 22-05-2009, 08:08 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve View Post
This example doesnt even look like a 28 - more like a 23 or 25 with steps !!!
I agree but is realy is 28ft , i once was in this boat when it had 2x 225HP Opti's on the behind , it ran like crap
Also a few years back , a 7.4L header droped right thrue the top deck when it fell out of a mechanics hands , real nice qualitie build
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Old 22-05-2009, 08:26 PM   #39
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arh!
so the port holes are to cover up where the fenders went through!!!!
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