D-19 - possible new versions

[Adam]

Just to see if there is any interest.....

Recently I bought back my old 29' monohull and have been weighing up the possibilities.

One - is to take-off moulds and produce some new boats. She would make a great Marthon E / D class boat with either single inboard or twin outboards - or of course a fast sports boat.

If this happens I will be making fairly extensive changes, new steps, spray rail changes, chine chane aft, deck detailing etc etc. But at the same time keeping the overall approach of the boat.

I don't know who the builder will be at this stage - but will all be to a high standard and hope to be pretty competitive on costs.

Two - I may just make the changes to D-19 and race it (have I time to race though?)

Three - Failing this she may well be up for sale.


So all just possibilities - but let me know if any more details are needed.

(Photo - thanks to Nigel)

[Big Dutch]

Best you sell it I reckon-preferably to Guernsey !

[cfun]

Out of interest is it the K4 that raced around early 2000 with 2x xr2 and ran low 80's, although I cant recall what success the boat had in D class, and was last seen for sale up north with Hospitality inn's canopy's strapped to it, plus inboard engine conversion

[littlenige]

If only one was built then clearly more spray rails added later on. Adam - how many were built?

[Adam]

Just the one built - and I made a few changes along the way with spray rails.

I raced her with twin XR2's - but had loads of engine problems and could not afford to keep two old engines going.

So worked hard and bought 2 new powerheads from the States. Before I could fit them and within a week had them stolen - along with my mid units, gearboxes etc. Not insured!

Then ran it with a single engine and worked pretty well -but let down by old engines again. First a 220hp Yamaha (54 mph) and then a 2.5 efi that was a big waste of money.

So gave up with her at that stage and sold her to Mark Priestly. I went onto build my 2 ltre Mobil 1 boat and back to 3C racing.

Mark and Odette then raced her in 4 litre and won the National Championships.

Then she went to Hutchy - who converted her to big inboard power and ran some big speeds (as he does).

Then full circle - it came back to me

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Big Dutch

Best you sell it I reckon-preferably to Guernsey !

Will see what happens and will have to decide on plans fairly soon.

Would rather see a new up-dated version head over to Guernsey?

[Adam]

a photo of how she is now having been running an inboard

[Paul E]

Beautiful boat in all it's guises, look forward to seeing what you come up with!

Also, if you're not keeping the 1/4 canopies, I know Top Gun was looking for some for his Cougar cat

[topgun]

Originally Posted by Paul E

Beautiful boat in all it's guises, look forward to seeing what you come up with!

Also, if you're not keeping the 1/4 canopies, I know Top Gun was looking for some for his Cougar cat

Definately, thanks Paul for the thought.

Maybe I would be better just to buy this boat off Adam and bolt the Yams on!

[Adam]

Many thanks for the interest to all - will have to see what happens.

At the moment nearly all interest is in buying the boat as it is -however the only way for me to progress the project along a productiuon side is to take off moulds from the actual boat and then look at producing more boats.

So lots of interest in the boat as it is (second hand) - but would there be enough interest in new versions to warrant making changes and taking off the moulds?

Some decisions to make and will look at the possibilities.

Could also be a joint venture with a boat builder. I'm not looking to do any building these days, always was just a way of producing my own designs and moving forwards in a cost effective way. Possibility to do a RIB version as ell......

[Hydrostream]

Originally Posted by Adam

So lots of interest in the boat as it is (second hand) - but would there be enough interest in new versions to warrant making changes and taking off the moulds?

Isnt that the million dollar question!

[cfun]

I must admit I to had contemplated this boat for club event's, although the Marathon events were also a possibility (although I have other projects on the go so ultimately not really possible at the time the boat was for sale ) ... however as I see it even if I had purchased the boat, obstacles I felt I would want to change were ...

Boat/Power ... and I'm no expert however going by the pic's the rear engine hatch may need a re-design making it more water tight as the stern probably would sit pretty low in the water especially with it's narrow beam to water length ratio and not much free-board, not so good in rough weather if you lost main power, and a rear bustle would also be probably needed (if inboard engine used)to store the 2 man life raft on top of, this however hopefully would increase waterline length with the right tabs, AKA like Buzzi dose. I also felt the hospitality canopy's looked a bit like half an egg, IE the edges look weak and in a heavy stuff may fracture off in your face, so in an ideal world where money no object a V24 style canopy would I felt be dry and safer and after all that theirs still all the rest bow tank etc.
Then their is the problem as what to power it by, outboard/inboard, if outboard what? marathon needs reliability so no XR2's may be 1x250/300Merc or Evenrude, although going by the engine failures on Buzzi bullet with 2x300 Merc's this looked fragile for marathon, so a 350SCI Verado very expensive and wrong gear case available. So maybe an inboard, here Peters idea on a lightweight small block would be great and probably the best option with the rear bustle mod, now what class does this fit in

[Martin The Talker]

For what my views are worth, I think the freeboard is too low for serious marathon use, as the boat is now.
I remember the boat being a good 4 litre hull, which handled the rough well, like its 2 litre cousin, but the hull was originally designed for 4 litre & similar racing.
My humble opinion is that it needs more freeboard for Marathon, & no doubt that would compromise other aspectsw of the design ?
Maybe your idea of using the hull as a Plug for a Mould for a RIB hull might be a good one Adam ?
After that, the hull could be sold on, maybe to Guernsey ?

[Adam]

If it all goes ahead then one of the changes is a rear bustle effect incoporating another chine. In effect giving a lot more bouyancy and as such more effective freeboard as it will float higher. the deck line will also rise in this area.

She is always going to be fairly low and sleek - but I think this would address the issue.

Then many other changes from small to large to give it more options.

Otherwise as it is, it would be a great fun boat - or basic class racer.

[PerformanceDodge]

Hi Adam, I have been following this thread with interest from the start and firstly I must say what a stunning boat, and it really deserves developing further. I'm sure you have something quite special there.

I was reading cfuns comment above and the mods that he was describing, you would really end up with another BananaShark which don’t get me wrong as I think it is a stunning boat and seems to perform extremely well, in fact I like it very much. But I think there is a hole in the market for something else.

I’m sure as you are aware I bought and have spent a lot of time and money converting a Cougar 225 as I could find nothing on the market to fit my criteria for the reasons below and may be your D-19 could be a moded for a commercial version and fit the same criteria, could be a market winner in today’s economic climate.

Duel purpose pleasure and racing. With the current climate not many can afford to keep and run two boats ie one race one pleasure so I have tried to combine the two. Small basic two man crawl in cuddy with door to keep damp and mosquito’s out, basic to keep weight down for racing but enough so can be used a weekender. Two front seats and two small rear seats so can be used for racing and pleasure. Also duel purpose boat, wife is more likely to agree. Finally not so many people are tacking there holidays abroad so may be use for boating holiday in UK.

Length. longer the better for UK water, this makes a big difference to comfort for pleasure and rough weather handling for racing. May be 29ft long enough for rough water but short enough to be towed legally behind 4 x 4. No expensive mooring fee’s or dry storage, average seems to be £3000 per annum for 30ft boat

Width. Kept narrow this reduces drag. I don’t think much priority is paid to aerodynamics in boat design. For racing or pleasure low drag gives more speed and lower fuel consumption. I believe it makes a big difference and more than some realize. I remember years ago with the original Mini car, we used to de seam them to reduce drag. Two strips one each side, 40 inches long x ¾ inch wide gave an increase cross sectional area of 60 square inches and at 80 mph was worth another 5mph. Also, as the boat length is towable legaly still and does not require a commercial towing vehicle. Again low drag will mean lower fuel consumption when towing. My Cougar coming back from Devon at 65mph I got an overall fuel consumption of 34mpg, it’s a low narrow boat, probably not much more drag than a 21ft Ring or Phantom just longer. Also if it kept narrow it can be towed legally on the road, as I was told and I’m not to sure how true this is, but the new P1 28 Panther trailer is not road legal due to width.

Stepped plane hull give up to 15% more speed or less drag which ever way you want to look at it. So a more efficient Hull

Engine’s. Now this is the deciding factor, I built a boat that I wanted to keep for at least 10 years and could afford to run on a regular basis. Bearing in mind the recent massive increase in petrol and marine diesel and I am sure over the next 10 years will continue to do so. I have seen so many people with boats this year just don’t use them because they bought something 5 years ago that they could afford to run and with cost of fuel and living increase now cant afford to run them. I don’t think there are many now that can afford to run a pair of two stroke outboards flat out at what £400 per hour in fuel, or even cruising all day probably £500.Very light weight engines massive weight of fuel to be carried. Ok then there are four stroke outboards massive investment and far to top heavy still for narrow racing boats especially with a pair, lot of weight to hang on a transom. I think the top heavy weight of the Honda engine on the Cougar was the downfall of an otherwise excellent racing boat. Twin inboard engines will give say 10% - 15% more speed than single inboard engine but with twice the consumption, mainly because twice the engine weight and twice the fuel load, and again twice the servicing and maintainance costs. And if the boat is single engine it can be mounted low to give lower Cof G and a narrower design can be used for the hull. With Stepped plane hull that have a habit of hooking and rolling again with low C of G it is less likely to roll if or when it hooks.


Petrol or diesel. I don’t think there is much difference in power to weight any more between modern turbo diesels and petrol’s. But I do think that there’s a difference in fuel consumption of around 20% less for common rail diesels. So 20% less fuel load and less layout for fuel each time.

Ok So here’s my suggestion. Built with Aramid fibres and foam core, very light and strong. Single inboard 315 or 370 Yanmar diesel or similar, should be good for 80mph with the latter, both seem to have same weight. Would have very low C of G and so stable and lower fuel load with single diesel, raster more economical. Flat floor crawl in cuddy with door to make it a weekender. Rear bolster or swim platform. Could have two rear seats for pleasure or place a life raft there for racing. Screen back to original, I agree with cfun and looks crap. There is no reason why you could not have a bolt on bubble style hard top, with built in screens as optional extra for racing. Could have rear cutout or top hatch for access. Could be towed economically and legally behind any 4 x 4 with 2.8ton towing capacity.

It’s a shame that Cougar never developed the H225 hull further to an inboard or sports cuddy. I think with minor modifications and a big inboard diesel your boat would meat all the above criteria for the current economic climate, and be used for sports, pleasure, poker runs or racing. Very light, very fast, economical to run. Could be the start of a new race series. Black smoke boat bacing. I am sure with most people its not the intial outlay its the cost of using it.

Good luck with it I look forward to seeing what you do with it.

[Adam]

Many thanks for your comments Freddy - and agree with lots that you say. Certainly the overall concept of the boat and its potential changes.

However - it is looking more likely that it wil be sold on as a second hand boat.

Loads of interest in the boat - but more as a second hand boat - so at things stand the investment in the modifications and then a set of moulds is looking too speculative for me.

Still a slight chance I will just make the changes to his boat and race it as an E-Class boat.

Another couple of weeks before I make a decision.