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30-03-2013, 07:33 PM
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#1
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Registered User
Country: guernsey
Occupation: mechanic
Boat name: top gun dewpacabra
Boat make: phantom 600 phantom 19
Engines: mercury 2.5 mercury 2.4 mercury 150 pro xs
Cruising area: channel islands
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 41
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differences between phantom 600 and phantom 20?
ive got what i believe to be a phantom 600 i think its a 600 rather than a p20 because theres only one set of chines at the back instead of three could anyone tell me if im right?
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30-03-2013, 07:56 PM
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#2
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Registered User
Country: england
Location: surrey
Engines: none at the mo
Cruising area: south coast
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: surrey
Posts: 472
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p20
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrick d
ive got what i believe to be a phantom 600 i think its a 600 rather than a p20 because theres only one set of chines at the back instead of three could anyone tell me if im right?
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any pics ?
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30-03-2013, 08:28 PM
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#3
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Registered User
Country: Guernsey
Occupation: Engineer
Interests: Restoration
Cruising area: Channel Islands & northern French coast
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 154
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You are not right, I keep tellin ya, your boat is Teal with the cabin hacked off it...
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30-03-2013, 08:31 PM
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#4
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Registered User
Country: england
Location: surrey
Engines: none at the mo
Cruising area: south coast
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: surrey
Posts: 472
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p20
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrick d
ive got what i believe to be a phantom 600 i think its a 600 rather than a p20 because theres only one set of chines at the back instead of three could anyone tell me if im right?
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on the 600 didnt the chines stop 3 ft from the back and hull/vee was flat like a pad , with no chines, could be wrong ?
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30-03-2013, 08:49 PM
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#5
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Registered User
Country: UK
Location: london
Occupation: Powerboat Skipper
Interests: Boats , bikes!
Boat name: Renegade
Boat make: GPV-RENEGADE
Engines: 150 HO etec
Cruising area: Thames, south coast, anywhere!
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: london
Posts: 2,330
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deepvee
on the 600 didnt the chines stop 3 ft from the back and hull/vee was flat like a pad , with no chines, could be wrong ?
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spot on, the 600 running surface was like that of the 18/16 anf early 21/23. the 20 had the pad like later 21/23. if my memery serves my right the 600 was only produce for a year or so until the pad was put on (so Alan told me). im also lead to believe it was called the 600 to be more in touch with euro thinking. (600 cm) but good old imperial made a comeback.
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30-03-2013, 08:50 PM
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#6
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Registered User
Country: guernsey
Occupation: mechanic
Boat name: top gun dewpacabra
Boat make: phantom 600 phantom 19
Engines: mercury 2.5 mercury 2.4 mercury 150 pro xs
Cruising area: channel islands
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deepvee
on the 600 didnt the chines stop 3 ft from the back and hull/vee was flat like a pad , with no chines, could be wrong ?
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yeah thats what i thought my one is like that, ive never seen another one like it on that yellow one of germansaleens but that one has the chines the whole way so must be a p20? does anyone no why they changed it?
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30-03-2013, 08:55 PM
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#7
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Registered User
Country: england
Location: surrey
Engines: none at the mo
Cruising area: south coast
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: surrey
Posts: 472
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p20/600
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrick d
yeah thats what i thought my one is like that, ive never seen another one like it on that yellow one of germansaleens but that one has the chines the whole way so must be a p20? does anyone no why they changed it?
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maybe mr baker made changes for handling reasons, or something ?
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30-03-2013, 08:56 PM
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#8
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Registered User
Country: UK
Location: london
Occupation: Powerboat Skipper
Interests: Boats , bikes!
Boat name: Renegade
Boat make: GPV-RENEGADE
Engines: 150 HO etec
Cruising area: Thames, south coast, anywhere!
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: london
Posts: 2,330
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a better running surface. a prime example would be in the alterations from warlord to swipewipes. as jf put it. along the lines of steve bakers latter lines of thought. The 19 (18xl) also took on the pad. It will give more lift to the boat.
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Im re branding pepper spray as Arsehole Repellant.im going to make a fortune.
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30-03-2013, 09:12 PM
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#9
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numbskull
Country: United Kingdom
Location: South
Occupation: none
Interests: none
Boat name: Leviathan
Boat make: Phantom 28
Cruising area: South Coast
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: South
Posts: 15,959
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The 'Chines' are the same on 600 & 20, as the Chine is where the outer spray rail converges with the topsides.
It's the inner spray rail area that changed, as Paul says. On the 20 the inner most rails morph into a central area of reduced deadrise (it still has a vee, it's just a bit shallower), again, as Paul says, exactly as we did on the 32 with Steve's guidance.
The changes to the 600 were developed to the improve cornering behaviour on that model, then that thinking got worked into the existing 21, then later the 23 and then the 18XL (20')
__________________
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"I Agree with everything you say really!" - John Cooke to Jon Fuller - 26-01-2013
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30-03-2013, 09:23 PM
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#10
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Registered User
Country: Sweden
Location: Stockholm
Occupation: Delta powerboats, Dahl Naval.
Interests: Boats, Cars, boats and boats
Boat make: Frodé 23R
Engines: Mercury 200XS
Cruising area: Lake Mälaren
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Stockholm
Posts: 248
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I just LOVE all the info on Phantoms that you guys have, very appreciated!
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30-03-2013, 09:24 PM
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#11
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Registered User
Country: guernsey
Occupation: mechanic
Boat name: top gun dewpacabra
Boat make: phantom 600 phantom 19
Engines: mercury 2.5 mercury 2.4 mercury 150 pro xs
Cruising area: channel islands
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Fuller
The 'Chines' are the same on 600 & 20, as the Chine is where the outer spray rail converges with the topsides.
It's the inner spray rail area that changed, as Paul says. On the 20 the inner most rails morph into a central area of reduced deadrise (it still has a vee, just shallower), again, as Paul says, exactly as we did on the 32 with Steve's guidance.
The changes to the 600 were developed to the improve cornering behaviour on that model, then got worked into the existing 21, then later the 23 and the 18XL (20')
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were there any differences in a straight line top speed? or would you not no the difference?
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30-03-2013, 09:30 PM
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#12
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numbskull
Country: United Kingdom
Location: South
Occupation: none
Interests: none
Boat name: Leviathan
Boat make: Phantom 28
Cruising area: South Coast
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: South
Posts: 15,959
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Not sure to be honest. I think the problem with the 600 came about because unlike previous Baker designs, the inner rails extended father aft, if not all the way to the transom?? but this gave it poor handling in the turns (at the extreme, ie, OCR style turns). The removal of the full length rail in favour of the pad improved it, but I seem to remember Steve saying the 600 was actually quicker in a straight line. I think when the pad was added to the P21 it improved straight line stability when flat out and may have been slightly faster (than the non pad 21) as unlike the 600 the 21 inner rails stopped well short of the transom, so the pad was a compromise between the original, and the 600 style.
__________________
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"I Agree with everything you say really!" - John Cooke to Jon Fuller - 26-01-2013
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30-03-2013, 09:54 PM
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#13
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Registered User
Country: UK
Location: london
Occupation: Powerboat Skipper
Interests: Boats , bikes!
Boat name: Renegade
Boat make: GPV-RENEGADE
Engines: 150 HO etec
Cruising area: Thames, south coast, anywhere!
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: london
Posts: 2,330
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If you look at old ocr footage, Bob Bakers 20 waa awesome in the rough.. my dad always commented on it. the other notable 20's were ocr record holders the rendall brothers and hutchy's 97 mph beast. statistically the 20 has been the fastest model. BUT in 86 i think was magician that was also great in the rough. The 20's had more success in ski racing.
In the Allhallows compound you can see many 600's and 20's side by side.
All so the 600 rails didnt go all the way aft..... like a ring for example. its just like an 18 design.
__________________
Im re branding pepper spray as Arsehole Repellant.im going to make a fortune.
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30-03-2013, 10:04 PM
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#14
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Registered User
Country: UK
Location: london
Occupation: Powerboat Skipper
Interests: Boats , bikes!
Boat name: Renegade
Boat make: GPV-RENEGADE
Engines: 150 HO etec
Cruising area: Thames, south coast, anywhere!
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: london
Posts: 2,330
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i have some pics of both transoms, i will dig them out and post them.
__________________
Im re branding pepper spray as Arsehole Repellant.im going to make a fortune.
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31-03-2013, 12:56 PM
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#15
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topgun
Country: Guernsey
Location: Guernsey
Occupation: Civil Servant/ Senior driving examiner
Interests: Boats/bikes/Black label
Boat name: Flash Back/Avenger/Anchor Management
Boat make: Sunseeker San Remo/mini cougar/Cougar cat 25/Avenger 21
Engines: San Remo 2x Volvo 5.7 v8/mini cougar Yamaha 25/Cougar 2x twin spark Yam V6/Avenger has volvo 300v8
Cruising area: C.I.Waters
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Guernsey
Posts: 500
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patrick d
ive got what i believe to be a phantom 600 i think its a 600 rather than a p20 because theres only one set of chines at the back instead of three could anyone tell me if im right?
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Hi Patrick, this might help you can see the rails end half way down the sign writing
Looking forward to seeing her back running
Steve
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31-03-2013, 01:40 PM
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#16
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Registered User
Country: guernsey
Occupation: mechanic
Boat name: top gun dewpacabra
Boat make: phantom 600 phantom 19
Engines: mercury 2.5 mercury 2.4 mercury 150 pro xs
Cruising area: channel islands
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by topgun
Hi Patrick, this might help you can see the rails end half way down the sign writing
Looking forward to seeing her back running
Steve
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Hi Steve could you tell me more about the handling and speed I've heard it had a bit of a reputation back in the day cheers Patrick
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