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Old 30-03-2013, 07:33 PM   #1
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differences between phantom 600 and phantom 20?

ive got what i believe to be a phantom 600 i think its a 600 rather than a p20 because theres only one set of chines at the back instead of three could anyone tell me if im right?
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Old 30-03-2013, 07:56 PM   #2
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p20

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Originally Posted by patrick d View Post
ive got what i believe to be a phantom 600 i think its a 600 rather than a p20 because theres only one set of chines at the back instead of three could anyone tell me if im right?
any pics ?
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Old 30-03-2013, 08:28 PM   #3
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You are not right, I keep tellin ya, your boat is Teal with the cabin hacked off it...
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Old 30-03-2013, 08:31 PM   #4
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p20

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Originally Posted by patrick d View Post
ive got what i believe to be a phantom 600 i think its a 600 rather than a p20 because theres only one set of chines at the back instead of three could anyone tell me if im right?
on the 600 didnt the chines stop 3 ft from the back and hull/vee was flat like a pad , with no chines, could be wrong ?
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Old 30-03-2013, 08:49 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deepvee View Post
on the 600 didnt the chines stop 3 ft from the back and hull/vee was flat like a pad , with no chines, could be wrong ?
spot on, the 600 running surface was like that of the 18/16 anf early 21/23. the 20 had the pad like later 21/23. if my memery serves my right the 600 was only produce for a year or so until the pad was put on (so Alan told me). im also lead to believe it was called the 600 to be more in touch with euro thinking. (600 cm) but good old imperial made a comeback.
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Old 30-03-2013, 08:50 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deepvee View Post
on the 600 didnt the chines stop 3 ft from the back and hull/vee was flat like a pad , with no chines, could be wrong ?
yeah thats what i thought my one is like that, ive never seen another one like it on that yellow one of germansaleens but that one has the chines the whole way so must be a p20? does anyone no why they changed it?
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Old 30-03-2013, 08:55 PM   #7
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p20/600

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yeah thats what i thought my one is like that, ive never seen another one like it on that yellow one of germansaleens but that one has the chines the whole way so must be a p20? does anyone no why they changed it?
maybe mr baker made changes for handling reasons, or something ?
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Old 30-03-2013, 08:56 PM   #8
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a better running surface. a prime example would be in the alterations from warlord to swipewipes. as jf put it. along the lines of steve bakers latter lines of thought. The 19 (18xl) also took on the pad. It will give more lift to the boat.
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Old 30-03-2013, 09:12 PM   #9
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The 'Chines' are the same on 600 & 20, as the Chine is where the outer spray rail converges with the topsides.

It's the inner spray rail area that changed, as Paul says. On the 20 the inner most rails morph into a central area of reduced deadrise (it still has a vee, it's just a bit shallower), again, as Paul says, exactly as we did on the 32 with Steve's guidance.

The changes to the 600 were developed to the improve cornering behaviour on that model, then that thinking got worked into the existing 21, then later the 23 and then the 18XL (20')
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Old 30-03-2013, 09:23 PM   #10
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Old 30-03-2013, 09:24 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Fuller View Post
The 'Chines' are the same on 600 & 20, as the Chine is where the outer spray rail converges with the topsides.

It's the inner spray rail area that changed, as Paul says. On the 20 the inner most rails morph into a central area of reduced deadrise (it still has a vee, just shallower), again, as Paul says, exactly as we did on the 32 with Steve's guidance.

The changes to the 600 were developed to the improve cornering behaviour on that model, then got worked into the existing 21, then later the 23 and the 18XL (20')
were there any differences in a straight line top speed? or would you not no the difference?
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Old 30-03-2013, 09:30 PM   #12
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Not sure to be honest. I think the problem with the 600 came about because unlike previous Baker designs, the inner rails extended father aft, if not all the way to the transom?? but this gave it poor handling in the turns (at the extreme, ie, OCR style turns). The removal of the full length rail in favour of the pad improved it, but I seem to remember Steve saying the 600 was actually quicker in a straight line. I think when the pad was added to the P21 it improved straight line stability when flat out and may have been slightly faster (than the non pad 21) as unlike the 600 the 21 inner rails stopped well short of the transom, so the pad was a compromise between the original, and the 600 style.
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Old 30-03-2013, 09:54 PM   #13
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If you look at old ocr footage, Bob Bakers 20 waa awesome in the rough.. my dad always commented on it. the other notable 20's were ocr record holders the rendall brothers and hutchy's 97 mph beast. statistically the 20 has been the fastest model. BUT in 86 i think was magician that was also great in the rough. The 20's had more success in ski racing.

In the Allhallows compound you can see many 600's and 20's side by side.
All so the 600 rails didnt go all the way aft..... like a ring for example. its just like an 18 design.
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Old 30-03-2013, 10:04 PM   #14
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i have some pics of both transoms, i will dig them out and post them.
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Old 31-03-2013, 12:56 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patrick d View Post
ive got what i believe to be a phantom 600 i think its a 600 rather than a p20 because theres only one set of chines at the back instead of three could anyone tell me if im right?
Hi Patrick, this might help you can see the rails end half way down the sign writing

Looking forward to seeing her back running

Steve
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Old 31-03-2013, 01:40 PM   #16
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Quote:
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Hi Patrick, this might help you can see the rails end half way down the sign writing

Looking forward to seeing her back running

Steve
Hi Steve could you tell me more about the handling and speed I've heard it had a bit of a reputation back in the day cheers Patrick
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