Entry fees

[Jono]

Originally Posted by DAVE

Ooh I like these...its like a train leaves Waterloo at 9.00 PM travelling at 60 mph, when will it pass Old Beardy on his Zimmer, who left the Indian in Torquay pissed as a rat at 11.00 pm....

Sorry Jon, couldnt resist.

That's easy.... "Old Beardy" will win...especially if it's rough...

[Jon Fuller]

Originally Posted by Jono

That's easy.... "Old Beardy" will win...especially if it's rough...

Yeah, and not a toob in sight.

[gmc]

Ahh.. while we are on the subject of fees!!

I have done saftey boating for many events as class 3,OCR,V24,Honda etc..
How comes Honda can pay me £80 fuel money 2 dinners each day for both driver and observer,free launching,mooring at Marina's,teas/coffee's etc parking for boat,car & Camper. and when I applied to do the Round Britain Safety for Plymouth area they stated they could not give me anything towards fuel afterall they would be getting my boat, experience, time, launching fee, etc.. A friend of mine did safety for this event and was even charged £3 to moor alongside the guys on a marina, I believe The entry fee was quite high for this event so why no money for saftey guys, surely saftey crew should not be out of pocket for fuel as these events would not run without saftey boats.

[Matt]

3rd word, 3rd sentence.

[Jon Fuller]

Originally Posted by gmc

Ahh.. while we are on the subject of fees!!

I have done saftey boating for many events as class 3,OCR,V24,Honda etc..
How comes Honda can pay me £80 fuel money 2 dinners each day for both driver and observer,free launching,mooring at Marina's,teas/coffee's etc parking for boat,car & Camper. and when I applied to do the Round Britain Safety for Plymouth area they stated they could not give me anything towards fuel afterall they would be getting my boat, experience, time, launching fee, etc.. A friend of mine did safety for this event and was even charged £3 to moor alongside the guys on a marina, I believe The entry fee was quite high for this event so why no money for saftey guys, surely saftey crew should not be out of pocket for fuel as these events would not run without saftey boats.

If you honestly need that question answering....well.


Note to Mike: you best print some more money.

[Ciao]

Originally Posted by gmc

Ahh.. while we are on the subject of fees!!

I have done saftey boating for many events as class 3,OCR,V24,Honda etc..
How comes Honda can pay me £80 fuel money 2 dinners each day for both driver and observer,free launching,mooring at Marina's,teas/coffee's etc parking for boat,car & Camper. and when I applied to do the Round Britain Safety for Plymouth area they stated they could not give me anything towards fuel afterall they would be getting my boat, experience, time, launching fee, etc.. A friend of mine did safety for this event and was even charged £3 to moor alongside the guys on a marina, I believe The entry fee was quite high for this event so why no money for saftey guys, surely saftey crew should not be out of pocket for fuel as these events would not run without saftey boats.

As an ex-competitor in the sport thank you so much for your time and money spent on the water.

As helping out on the organising side of the RB08, we barely had enough money to run the race.

Once again thanks for your help.

[larby]

From a totally 3rd party point of view...

I totally agree that the bigger boats should pay more. The people running in those classes can afford the entry fees with ease. They also generally have sponsors. All that would happen if the entry fees were the same for all is that people like me who want to enter as a basic entrant, and just about have the money for that, will see our entry fees triple so the millionares and their sponsors can save a few hundred. Fair? I don't think so.

As for why the honda series is so great, well that's linked to why racing was so affordable and popular in the 80's... Sponsership.
Honda back their series so the entry fees can go partially towards helping pay for safety fuel allowances etc. Back in the 80's, event sponsership was comparativley easy to get, as was individual sponsership for the boats, making eveyone's life much easier. As soon as we lost sponsership and states support for the class A's over here that was it, they never returned.
Add to that the masses of red tape and paperwork now involved in anything more dangerous than waking up, and it's not hard to see why things are falling apart.

Another issue i see these days is that everyone expects more. I look back at my girlfriend's dad's racing career and i'm green with envy. He raced in 3c starting with a R20 and ending with an argo cat.
I'm sat here with a 6 litre cat and a touring class V8 revenger, not to mention a show bike, lexus, nissan navara, etc etc, at the age of 25.
A while ago i found myself moaning about the cost of racing, then i thought... Maybe if i just went and bought a P19xl to get started, i could use the extra £20k-30k I've spent faffing with these to pay entry fees, transport, fuel etc, just like they did back then?? Many people expect too much these days, just a thought.

James

[Ciao]

Originally Posted by larby

From a totally 3rd party point of view...

I totally agree that the bigger boats should pay more. The people running in those classes can afford the entry fees with ease. They also generally have sponsors. All that would happen if the entry fees were the same for all is that people like me who want to enter as a basic entrant, and just about have the money for that, will see our entry fees triple so the millionares and their sponsors can save a few hundred. Fair? I don't think so.

As for why the honda series is so great, well that's linked to why racing was so affordable and popular in the 80's... Sponsership.
Honda back their series so the entry fees can go partially towards helping pay for safety fuel allowances etc. Back in the 80's, event sponsership was comparativley easy to get, as was individual sponsership for the boats, making eveyone's life much easier. As soon as we lost sponsership and states support for the class A's over here that was it, they never returned.
Add to that the masses of red tape and paperwork now involved in anything more dangerous than waking up, and it's not hard to see why things are falling apart.

Another issue i see these days is that everyone expects more. I look back at my girlfriend's dad's racing career and i'm green with envy. He raced in 3c starting with a R20 and ending with an argo cat.
I'm sat here with a 6 litre cat and a touring class V8 revenger, not to mention a show bike, lexus, nissan navara, etc etc, at the age of 25.
A while ago i found myself moaning about the cost of racing, then i thought... Maybe if i just went and bought a P19xl to get started, i could use the extra £20k-30k I've spent faffing with these to pay entry fees, transport, fuel etc, just like they did back then?? Many people expect too much these days, just a thought.

James

All good thoughts - but you didn't fancy coming down to Gee last week when we had a couple of chilled cases of Veuve Clicquot?

[larby]

I did, I really really did, but i just didn't have the time with balancing every waking hour working to afford my boats, and spending sufficient time with my daughter.
I did pass but hadn't asked if it was ok to visit at that point, didn't want to just turn up unannounced. If you're over again I'd love to pop down and say hi, especially where there's champagne involved!

James

[TobyC]

dont worry James I took care of the champagne for you

[larby]

That's it, rub it in... Think yourself lucky they didn't stop at sark on the way to you, wouldn't have been anything left then!!

James

[TobyC]

it would appear that we have hijacked this tread. So back on track whats the entry fee for the next race

[alice]

larby i feel you are wrong,all your toys says you should pay more entry to the man with a 1.3 if your saying you agree with the priceing theory

[BigBird1964]

Originally Posted by larby

Back in the 80's, event sponsership was comparativley easy to get, as was individual sponsership for the boats, making eveyone's life much easier. As soon as we lost sponsership and states support for the class A's over here that was it, they never returned.
Add to that the masses of red tape and paperwork now involved in anything more dangerous than waking up, and it's not hard to see why things are falling apart.
James

Larby, back in the 80's when you were just an itch in your daddy's pants I don't remember sponsorship being that easy to get.

[larby]

Originally Posted by alice

larby i feel you are wrong,all your toys says you should pay more entry to the man with a 1.3 if your saying you agree with the priceing theory

Yeah, i do agree with it entirely. I can afford this much more than a couple of lads from sark who raced in our basic, yet they pay the same fees. If i paid more then more people like them would be able to get into the sport as it'd be cheaper.
As it happens i offered them and others lots of technical support (as best i could anyhoo), found them a cheap hull to enable them to race and towed/launced all weekend for them (and others) too to help keep their costs down, not to mention all the work in the background as a part of the comittee, so feel i did my bit to support my sport instead of paying extra on this occasion. If you can afford a bigger boat, you can afford bigger fees. You wouldn't expect your fuel costs to be the same now would you!

Originally Posted by BigBird1964

Larby, back in the 80's when you were just an itch in your daddy's pants I don't remember sponsorship being that easy to get.

I may be wrong, it's just that looking back, all the boats in the basics over here seemed to be sponsored, as do all the events, trophies etc. Doesn't seem to be the case these days though, maybe they were just more determined though?

James

[Jon Fuller]

I think it's hard to compare traditional 'team' sponsorship, with that of a global engine manufacturer using racing to market their products, and to change peoples perception of their previously thought, 'fuddy duddy' engines, into something accepted by the performance boater.

All the subsidised entry fees, paid for telly coverage, agreed low licence costs, etc etc. (and very generous help for race support) is a result of that huge sugar daddy.

I think some of the animosity in the begining towards the Honda crowd happened because they were a little smug (about the mighty Honda fleet) and that all those racing in the 'normal' classes knew was an unsustainable model without Honda bankrolling it as they did. That made the smugness a little hard to swallow for racers spending their last sheckles to race.

It was also regularly discussed that Honda, by doing all this, were setting a precedent that would be hard shake off once the sugar daddy went away, as it inevitably would at some point. gmc's post proves this concern to have been justified.

[larby]

Over here we ran our basic with an entry fee of £200, to include license, insurance etc. Boats ranged evenly from a 14ft Fonda to a 30ft Parker rib, as did budgets. Maybe we could've done it as boat length in ft multiplied by 10? That way, the low budget teams would've paid £140-£160, whilst the big budget boys would've paid £300ish, averaging out to give the same total amount. That reduction for a small boat would probably get a few more people in and started. I would've happily paid £270 instead of £200 if it helped a few others get a chance to race.

James

[BigBird1964]

Originally Posted by larby

Over here we ran our basic with an entry fee of £200, to include license, insurance etc. Boats ranged evenly from a 14ft Fonda to a 30ft Parker rib, as did budgets. Maybe we could've done it as boat length in ft multiplied by 10? That way, the low budget teams would've paid £140-£160, whilst the big budget boys would've paid £300ish, averaging out to give the same total amount. That reduction for a small boat would probably get a few more people in and started. I would've happily paid £270 instead of £200 if it helped a few others get a chance to race.

James

James I think you are missing the whole point. You have chosen to spread your investment across several smaller toys while other people put all their money into one bigger boat, that doesnt mean the total cost isn't any more or less than yours.

If i spend £100k on a boat and you spend the same on 2 boats, a bike and handfull of cars then am I wealthier than you, should I be forced to pay more to play with my toy compared with yours - I don't think so?

[Ciao]

Originally Posted by TobyC

dont worry James I took care of the champagne for you

How far did that first cork fly!!!!!!!!!!

Guernsey > Jersey in a 7!

Great choice of restaurant mate, those steaks were excellent.

[larby]

Thats a very good point, you're quite right. I was basing it on how things were at our basic race over here. I still think that looking at it in a very general way, the bigger the boat, the bigger the budget.
You could also say that the bigger boats (i'm talking a P1 boat or maybe a canopy boat compared to a smaller 20 footer) bring the need for more saftey due to increased speed etc, so why should the smaller boats have to bear the cost of that? That said though, there are probably more incidents with the smaller boats. Oh i don't know, i guess it's done the way it is for a reason.
Maybe my whole idea was fundamentally flawed and i should just shut up and go to bed, gotta put my engine back in tomorrow so i can do the poker run

James