Fast diesel boat

[Johnny Rocket]

Originally posted by Admiral P. Brain
BenC ok will get you some photos... they truly are great boats, fast, safe, economical, bullet proof construction, sleep 2 in cabin..

Don't they have the sort of ride that makes your fillings fall out?

Knowing BenC, I suspect that he won't be content to only use the boat in millpond conditions! I haven't been out in an Extreme, but have tried other similar Ring hulls which were fast but gave the crew a bit of a beating.

[Admiral P. Brain]

re the ride.... guess Jon and Tony can answer that best as they raced them....

has a sharp entry, think 23/24 degree but rounds out at stern to give speed....

depends what you compare them to I guess.... would think a lot more comfortable ride than a phantom 16,18,21 and 25 as its bigger and heavier and wont fly so much.... just trim it in and nail the hammer...

had a friend with a p25 with a 225 and it outrode that in anything but the smallest chop...
and we always left behind all the above p's and ring equivs with 200hp + outboards in the chop....

obviously no comparison to a p28 for rough riding....

[Admiral P. Brain]

Jon, RedMist was slightly faster yanmar to yanmar maybe due to the x height, revved a tad higher.... not sure weight to weight/layup etc...

re bling, guess it just what floats your boat..... but in my book there's no point buying a custom boat if you dont custom it and make it the best you can afford to...

I take your point re gaffrig/livorsi dials and that they are no better/worse that autometer/faria gauges..... but again it was 'customed to match' and branding works

Mr Cigarette uses them and doesnt think they are shite and he could shave a few $ of the sticker price by going for a lesser known brand....

all i will say is RedMist had a lot of additonal equipment that bumped the sticker price up by aprrox £8k

[Jon Fuller]

Originally posted by Admiral P. Brain
had a friend with a p25 with a 225 and it outrode that in anything but the smallest chop...
and we always left behind all the above p's and ring equivs with 200hp + outboards in the chop....

I think that's a bit of a sweeping statement.

The P25, and even the P21 are very capable boats, whatever the conditions. But comparing a 21' outboard boat, with your 26' sterndrive boat aint apples with apples.
A 21 footer, would clearly take more driving, but I doubt there exists a sea condition, in which Ian Stirling, or any equivalent driver, wouldn't lap you in a basic race in his P21/XR2, especially when it roughs up. (with a 24/yanmar)

A P25/300 pro-max (closer comparison) would give the same results.

I think the Ring/Extreme hull is quite a hard ride (for their size), the up-side is, it's also a pretty fast hull with a given HP.
Agree the smaller Phantoms are firm ride, as are most OB boats of that size & performance. The exception being boats like the Sorcerers etc with a heavily warped deadrise.

I too think the answer with these boats when it chops up (not for racing mind) is to trim well in, drop the tabs a bit, and push on through it. That seems to give the 'kindest' ride from the hull.

Don't get carried away though, as they can bow steer a bit when driven like that.

[Jon Fuller]

Originally posted by Admiral P. Brain
Mr Cigarette uses them and doesnt think they are shite and he could shave a few $ of the sticker price by going for a lesser known brand....

They're dearer, and no doubt give higher profit.
I doubt very much you could get him to slag off livorsi, any more than you could get him to slag off Mercruiser, both of which, I'm sure he's had issues with.

It's all about perception of quality innit.

[Biggest Arms]

Originally posted by Jon Fuller
I think that's a bit of a sweeping statement.

The P25, and even the P21 are very capable boats, whatever the conditions. But comparing a 21' outboard boat, with your 26' sterndrive boat aint apples with apples.
A 21 footer, would clearly take more driving, but I doubt there exists a sea condition, in which Ian Stirling, or any equivalent driver, wouldn't lap you in a basic race in his P21/XR2, especially when it roughs up. (with a 24/yanmar)

A P25/300 pro-max (closer comparison) would give the same results.

I think the Ring/Extreme hull is quite a hard ride (for their size), the up-side is, it's also a pretty fast hull with a given HP.
Agree the smaller Phantoms are firm ride, as are most OB boats of that size & performance. The exception being boats like the Sorcerers etc with a heavily warped deadrise.

I too think the answer with these boats when it chops up (not for racing mind) is to trim well in, drop the tabs a bit, and push on through it. That seems to give the 'kindest' ride from the hull.

Don't get carried away though, as they can bow steer a bit when driven like that.

That's not a boat comparison, but a driver comparison ... How would Ian Striling do against himself in either boat?

[Carl]

i still stand by my statement on this site a few years ago now,that i think the phantoms are a harder ride than a ring/extreme,but both are superb boats(just to keep everyone happy)

[Jon Fuller]

Originally posted by Biggest Arms
... How would Ian Striling do against himself in either boat?

I actually think he'd still be quicker in the 21, but that's just an opinion.

Your point though, is good, coz it highlights how bad a comparison Robs was in the first place! how do we know it wasn't Kinfast driving the boats he refered to?

You gotta compare apples to apples, and comparing the 26 to my 28 would be fairer, not the poor little 21

[Jon Fuller]

Originally posted by carly baby
i still stand by my statement on this site a few years ago now,that i think the phantoms are a harder ride than a ring/extreme,but both are superb boats(just to keep everyone happy)

Oh well, it wouldn't do for us to all agree.

I'd point out though, that the 24/26 Ring/Extreme has a different bottom to the rest, and has a very shallow deadrise tween the inner spray rails, around 17 degrees (very shallow indeed) and this is why those models are pretty quick, but I think, a harder ride.

[Admiral P. Brain]

yes, if we all agreed it would be a sh*te webforum!!!

i compared my example to real life situations we experienced whilst on redmist and maelstrom.... was never beaten by any ring or phantom 16-25 and there are always some straight line racing going on out there.....

and that includes jackie in her old boat in approx 2001

whenever it was choppy, the smaller boats backed off and you could see the look of pain in their faces as they were flying all over the place almost out of control and smashing themselves to pieces on their bucket seats

i still would like to see a p21 driving over 50mph in a force 4/5 when u see the racing off bmth pier and its like that, either they dont compete due to health and boat damage risk, or they potter round at 30-40mph.... just my observation and of course have only watched limited racing....

[Admiral P. Brain]

I'd like to add that in the first leg of the 2003 poker run, the long leg with rough water thru the solent, I think we came 5th and beat a lot of phantoms/sports ribs smaller and lighter.... in fact we also beat that p28 with twin outboards!!!

[Carl]

jon ,what do you think is the best/favorite all round hull (under 30 ft ) for the solent area type of water is. mine would be a delta 25.

[Jon Fuller]

Originally posted by Admiral P. Brain
.... in fact we also beat that p28 with twin outboards!!!

That's it then, the diesel 26 Extreme, is clearly a better rough water race boat than a twin ouboard Phantom 28

Carl, dunno really, it depends so much on what you want from it.

If the oul woman had to enjoy it too, probably a Bill Malloney design of some sort. If it were purely for me, summat based on the 28 Batboat, or maybe even just stick with what I have now (but with 450hp alloy small blocks )

[Carl]

cool

[Admiral P. Brain]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jon Fuller
[B]That's it then, the diesel 26 Extreme, is clearly a better rough water race boat than a twin ouboard Phantom 28

MUST BE!! either that or I am such a good driver I must start racing!!

Then i can race a p21 and make the waves part like Ian obviously can and lap all the bigger boats....

[Jon Fuller]

Originally posted by Admiral P. Brain
[Then i can race a p21 and make the waves part like Ian obviously can and lap all the bigger boats....

Not 'all', just the slower, less able 'cruisers'.

[Jon Fuller]

Originally posted by Admiral P. Brain
[MUST BE!! either that or I am such a good driver I must start racing!!

Now there's an idea!....when the flag drops!....

go get a race boat

[Rockey]

rings

I too think the answer with these boats when it chops up (not for racing mind) is to trim well in, drop the tabs a bit, and push on through it. That seems to give the 'kindest' ride from the hull.

Don't get carried away though, as they can bow steer a bit when driven like that. [/B][/QUOTE]


think your bang on there jon you need to use the full length of the hull and stop the boat heading for the sky, but watch out for the bow steering

[Admiral P. Brain]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jon Fuller
[B]Now there's an idea!....when the flag drops!....


yes!! the flag dropped in that poker run and we whipped 2/3's of the fleet.....

[Biggest Arms]

I think the answer with these boats when it chops up is to trim well in, drop the tabs a bit, and push on through it.