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24-07-2011, 09:49 PM
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#1
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 116
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Hospitality inn puma cat
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24-07-2011, 11:34 PM
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#2
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topgun
Country: Guernsey
Location: Guernsey
Occupation: Civil Servant/ Senior driving examiner
Interests: Boats/bikes/Black label
Boat name: Flash Back/Avenger/Anchor Management
Boat make: Sunseeker San Remo/mini cougar/Cougar cat 25/Avenger 21
Engines: San Remo 2x Volvo 5.7 v8/mini cougar Yamaha 25/Cougar 2x twin spark Yam V6/Avenger has volvo 300v8
Cruising area: C.I.Waters
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Guernsey
Posts: 500
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wallby202
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Hi Wallby,
I was watching the race today, your motors may be a bit high as there was a pretty big rooster tail out back- you might get more bite a bit lower.
Also every time you tried to throttle up the cleavers would give stern lift and the bow was being pushed down.
So many things may have changed on the boat since it was raced as Hospitality, all you can do is go back to basics and see what works now.
I did reply to your last thread saying that I have a pair of 14x28 spoonbills which may be worth you trying out.
If they work we can maybe do a swap for your cleavers.
Give me a call if you like 07781 448652
Steve
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25-07-2011, 09:35 AM
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#3
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numbskull
Country: United Kingdom
Location: South
Occupation: none
Interests: none
Boat name: Leviathan
Boat make: Phantom 28
Cruising area: South Coast
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: South
Posts: 15,959
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That boat won't carry its bows and run as it should (through lift from the tunnel) until you're doing 60+, and won't 'really' get loose until 80. How fast were you running and in what conditions? It was never a great rough water boat. The older versions (Westons Kodak & Fat Cat) were slower, but better in the slop.
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"I Agree with everything you say really!" - John Cooke to Jon Fuller - 26-01-2013
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25-07-2011, 11:46 AM
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#4
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Registered User
Country: Guernsey Channel Isles
Location: West Coast
Occupation: Hotelier
Interests: Powerboat racing
Boat name: Vodkatini,Cap Camarat,Easy RiderSuper Rider & Hirrondelle
Boat make: Phantom 21,Jeaneau 925 Avenger19.Lorne Campbell Slipstream Tremlett 21.Tigershark 21
Engines: Volvo 5 litre,Merc 115 Tower,Twin 250 Suzukis and 145 Mercruiser LX
Cruising area: Channel Islands and French coast
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: West Coast
Posts: 612
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It seems to porpoise as it goes along I noticed as you overtook me.
Sea state had overfalls on one leg a rollers on another.
Nice long straight into wind and I was doing 67mph plus at the end of it.
The back of the tunnel punctured and this started to throw up a flume of water-I was close enough to notice.
I have been thrown out of three cats so would advise not getting too much bow lift under the tunnel in case it takes off.
It might be wise to trim out initially to get some air under it them trim in so it gets unstuck.-Just a thought.
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Guernsey - The home of offshore powerboat racing
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25-07-2011, 03:30 PM
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#5
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Registered User
Country: Ireland
Location: Dublin
Occupation: Boatbuilder
Boat make: Hydrostream V-king, 650SS OCR ,Ring 21, Ring 18, Phantom 18.
Engines: 300Hp Mercury 2.4, 130 Yamaha, Bridgeport EFI, XR6, Merc 200.
Cruising area: Malahide, Dublin
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Dublin
Posts: 1,803
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Dutch
It might be wise to trim out initially to get some air under it them trim in so it gets unstuck.-Just a thought.
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Not knowing anything about the Puma, but that is exactly what I do with my sportcat, which is slightly under powered, running a 225 promax.
Trim it out to pack some air then back in to lift the ass. If its choppy, I dont need to do it as much.
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25-07-2011, 07:43 PM
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#6
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Registered User
Country: Guernsey
Occupation: Engineering
Boat make: None, boo!
Engines: Turbines mainly!
Cruising area: The inside of my workshop!
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,646
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Knowing that you had issues with one motor over fuelling, I'd sort that first. I know just how badly that boat handles under 60, it's a real dog! Once you've got the power you should from both sides you'll get that extra speed you need.
As we chatted about, I only had it running a couple of times but when I got over about 65 it really does suddenly lift up, it took a fair amount of trim too! I don't think I ever got it quick enough to need to trim back in too much, never had the right props. Once you find that lift, it'll find the speed much easier too as it's not dragging the whole hull through the water.
I'm sorry you're having pretty crap luck with it mate, I was so glad to see it running again and in the races, if there's anything I can do to help out, go through what I did etc, just give me a shout and I'll make sure I find the time to come down.
James
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25-07-2011, 08:32 PM
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#7
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Registered User
Location: north west
Interests: Northern poker runs,without the loosers
Boat name: Daze of thunder
Boat make: fastest recorded outboard phantom
Engines: which one
Cruising area: M6
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: north west
Posts: 263
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wallby202
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heres pic of transom and tunnel extension and gearboxes 1 inch above transom,as it was built,it ran 93.93 mph with xr2s,the year later it had centre cock pit and still ran 93 and came 3rd in worlds ,, but also ran 116mph down windemere with 2.5 efis,the leisure deck was put on as 4 litre had died a death,but no alterations to tunnel or transom was done up whilst i owned it,
having raced both old puma fatcat/papa kilo in 4 and 6 litre internationals and hospitality, can honestly say it need no bow lift , so either alterations have been done,poor set up or driver error,: :
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riverside powerboats
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25-07-2011, 08:34 PM
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#8
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Registered User
Location: north west
Interests: Northern poker runs,without the loosers
Boat name: Daze of thunder
Boat make: fastest recorded outboard phantom
Engines: which one
Cruising area: M6
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: north west
Posts: 263
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oops
here you go
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riverside powerboats
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25-07-2011, 11:09 PM
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#9
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 116
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Nice
That's awesome I wish she still was like that, not getting why so much of that had to be cut away,
I have just been out again tonight and I'm the first to admit that I really do need to learn a lot more yet but I hope to get there,
I was a little frustrated after firstly sinking on sat race and then spending sat night with a lot of help getting it ready for sun race to then ran dry of fuel on port engine driver error for sure on that one,
I ve understood the bow lifting etc it's just getting there and staying there 60+
I'm not getting, we just go straight down and seem to stay down till I'm running at the wind again, trim up or down, as it is Im being told to lower the engines but I'm not feeling that does any one think same or raise them for less drag ?? I do appricate any advice especially the ones who raced it as Hospitallity inn before all the alterations were done, cause she looked awesome back then didn't she.
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26-07-2011, 10:26 AM
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#10
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Registered User
Country: Guernsey Channel Isles
Location: West Coast
Occupation: Hotelier
Interests: Powerboat racing
Boat name: Vodkatini,Cap Camarat,Easy RiderSuper Rider & Hirrondelle
Boat make: Phantom 21,Jeaneau 925 Avenger19.Lorne Campbell Slipstream Tremlett 21.Tigershark 21
Engines: Volvo 5 litre,Merc 115 Tower,Twin 250 Suzukis and 145 Mercruiser LX
Cruising area: Channel Islands and French coast
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: West Coast
Posts: 612
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steve h
heres pic of transom and tunnel extension and gearboxes 1 inch above transom,as it was built,it ran 93.93 mph with xr2s,the year later it had centre cock pit and still ran 93 and came 3rd in worlds ,, but also ran 116mph down windemere with 2.5 efis,the leisure deck was put on as 4 litre had died a death,but no alterations to tunnel or transom was done up whilst i owned it,
having raced both old puma fatcat/papa kilo in 4 and 6 litre internationals and hospitality, can honestly say it need no bow lift , so either alterations have been done,poor set up or driver error,: :
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Gearbox 1'' above transom-does that mean centre of bullet 1" above keel of sponson or Cavitation plate 1" above tunnel ?
You might need a couple of pointy nosecones on the front of Yamaha torpedo
If they could incorporate the low water pick up you possibly could remove the transom mounted pick ups and hoses-less drag
I think Hydromotive do them ?
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Guernsey - The home of offshore powerboat racing
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26-07-2011, 10:31 AM
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#11
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Registered User
Location: north west
Interests: Northern poker runs,without the loosers
Boat name: Daze of thunder
Boat make: fastest recorded outboard phantom
Engines: which one
Cruising area: M6
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: north west
Posts: 263
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Dutch
Gearbox 1'' above transom-does that mean centre of bullet 1" above keel of sponson or Cavitation plate 1" above tunnel ?
You might need a couple of pointy nosecones on the front of Yamaha torpedo
If they could incorporate the low water pick up you possibly could remove the transom mounted pick ups and hoses-less drag
I think Hydromotive do them ?
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point of bullet on cle 1 inch above,ran even higher when remote pickup were allowed,
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riverside powerboats
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26-07-2011, 10:38 AM
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#12
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numbskull
Country: United Kingdom
Location: South
Occupation: none
Interests: none
Boat name: Leviathan
Boat make: Phantom 28
Cruising area: South Coast
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: South
Posts: 15,959
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In it's original guise (with remote water pickups) If a straight edge were held against the running surface, it would have sat just kissing the bottom of the bullet at level trim, in other words, when viewed from underneath / ahead, it wasn't possible to see the bullet, you could only see the skeg. After the remote water pick ups were abolished in the early 90's, the motors were dropped a bit, which with the 2.5 EFI's made it run a bit odd as the lower part of the bullet gave a lot of stern lift above 100mph. it ran the best with the motors high.
>EDIT: Ooops, sorry Steve, we duplicated..
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"I Agree with everything you say really!" - John Cooke to Jon Fuller - 26-01-2013
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26-07-2011, 11:11 PM
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#13
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Registered User
Country: Guernsey Channel Isles
Location: West Coast
Occupation: Hotelier
Interests: Powerboat racing
Boat name: Vodkatini,Cap Camarat,Easy RiderSuper Rider & Hirrondelle
Boat make: Phantom 21,Jeaneau 925 Avenger19.Lorne Campbell Slipstream Tremlett 21.Tigershark 21
Engines: Volvo 5 litre,Merc 115 Tower,Twin 250 Suzukis and 145 Mercruiser LX
Cruising area: Channel Islands and French coast
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: West Coast
Posts: 612
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So it could be worth trying to jack up the engine an inch or more maybe go up half an inch at a time and see how it handles ?
More revs on the way !
Just one other thought crossed my mind.Compared to the photo are the engines mounted the same way around ?
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Guernsey - The home of offshore powerboat racing
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27-07-2011, 07:57 AM
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#14
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Registered User
Country: UK
Location: Portsmouth
Occupation: Marine Engineer
Interests: everything fast
Boat make: Phantom 28/phantom 18
Engines: 2x Mercury 3.0 225 optimax/yamaha 85
Cruising area: Solent
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Portsmouth
Posts: 1,355
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I had a chat with Geff about it are the fuel tanks still in the 2 hulls at the back
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27-07-2011, 09:21 AM
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#15
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Registered User
Location: north west
Interests: Northern poker runs,without the loosers
Boat name: Daze of thunder
Boat make: fastest recorded outboard phantom
Engines: which one
Cruising area: M6
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: north west
Posts: 263
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Fuller
In it's original guise (with remote water pickups) If a straight edge were held against the running surface, it would have sat just kissing the bottom of the bullet at level trim, in other words, when viewed from underneath / ahead, it wasn't possible to see the bullet, you could only see the skeg. After the remote water pick ups were abolished in the early 90's, the motors were dropped a bit, which with the 2.5 EFI's made it run a bit odd as the lower part of the bullet gave a lot of stern lift above 100mph. it ran the best with the motors high.
>EDIT: Ooops, sorry Steve, we duplicated..
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no prob,heres pic at windemere 04 records running 2.5s and remote pick ups 32cleavers spinning out ,
doult tanks have been moved you have to cut sponsons open.
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