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Old 24-08-2005, 10:58 AM   #21
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Regardless of the safety aspect - Don't you think a minimum weight rule is a good way to keep the costs down - else it could lean towards the winner being whoever can afford the lightest, carbon nomex pre-preg autoclaved wonder machine!
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Old 24-08-2005, 11:05 AM   #22
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The bloke with unlimited money will always have a better chance than the potless geezer, ussuming equivalent driving skill.

it aint just the weight is it.
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Old 24-08-2005, 11:11 AM   #23
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For sure, but next to hull shape and engine power (which 'should' be equal given the new rules promoting new generation un-touched electronic engines, XS200 etc) boat weight is the biggest factor affecting out and out speed.

Yeh the rich guy can buy better kit that won't break etc but I think you have to give Joe Bloggs some sort of chance to compete - if not to encourage more people into the sport - current situation with numbers of race entries as case in point!
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Old 24-08-2005, 11:19 AM   #24
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The first thing to remember is, out and out speed don't win championships.

Also, human nature tends to mean that the guy who could have 'massive budget' racing in 1.3, and use his wealth to dominate, doesn't! Instead, he kids himself he can afford 4 litre, or 6 litre, or class II, and goes skint in 2 years after making a bad job of it on an inadequate budget.

I always reckoned, if everyone racing dropped down one class, mebbe two, racing would be far more professional, and there would be fewer boken hearts/wallets floating around in the turbulent wake of powerboat racing.
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Old 24-08-2005, 11:26 AM   #25
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Agreed on all - especially the dropping down classes bit - I've heard that theory suggested by more than one experienced racer!

Until there is a lot of competitors / money in the sport though I still hold out on the minimum weight rules - seeing as you say the rich guy can afford to make his boat better in all areas the poorer teams need to at least start level somewhere. Yes out and out speed don't win championships but it certainly goes some way!
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Old 24-08-2005, 11:46 AM   #26
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Also minimum weights have not had such an issue in the UK - where most boats are comfortably above it anyway. Actually quite difficult to get down if you want a boat that race in the rough as well. I think the boats racing here that were closest to the weight limits were the Forgecraft mono's - and that probably had a fair bit to do with just how slim they were and how small their surface area is.

Some of the Scandinavian boats are a different issue though. Especially when you are trying to get a canopied boat down on weight. So I can see that weight is one way of possibly controlling the extreme there. Only goes part of the way of course.
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Old 24-08-2005, 11:46 AM   #27
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Hey the fact of the matter is the reason they aren’t so many boats is the cost, not of racing but of living. 20 years ago you mortgage / rent say was 15% of your income now for some it’s more that 50%.
Fuel, the rises we have suffered over the year aren’t cost of living but duty increases on top of the normal price rises. The examples are endless.
At the end of the day I can’t justify spending on a race boat such a large proportion of my income when there are other mouths to feed, fine if it was just me with my prick to keep but it ain’t. A boat must have other uses apart from racing. That is the nut cotton. Boat racing has always been expensive but it has evolved and become more so. Like everthing else today, cars , houses, food, ect, ect
Look what’s in production now. Maxiums, Bayliners, Mastercraft, Dateline this is what’s being purchased by the masses not Phantoms & Rings sorry Cougars. There aint no way any of those could compete on an even keel with the latter in any shape or form.
Before rather than a purpose made fuel tank you nipped to you commercial scrappy a pulled one from an old truck, then nipped round to mr bloggs who would cut & weld it for you in his garage. Now its BS this, euro regs that CE marked this. Not for the race equipment but for the guys that make it. This drives up the price which they rightly have to cover. We live in a far more regulated world and the costs that go with it I’m afraid. The safety issue is another thing that adds to the cost. Licences, insurances, hec it’s a motorsport. For the people that want it accident free. MOTORSPORTS ARE DANGEROUS that is the attraction and adrenalin rush for those that take part. Look at any race track & read the signs. The only way is to slow everybody down and that’s hardly improving the breed is it.
I dunno if there is a solution, I hope so It’s a sport for which I have a great love & passion. But at the end of the day it all comes down to disposable income. Until people have more of that rather than less it will not expand and prosper. This isn’t intended to knock any club or organisation or class structure purely a statement of fact if Honda walk away and the real costs are exposed, that setup will see a sharp decline in numbers also. Ask any of the ex races on this forum if they had a deal of no cost racing fully sponsored. How many would return. Lots I’m sure so it’s not a class structure, organisation, RYA thing………….
I’m gonna have to live with the fact in this real world I will only do the odd basic as and when as a full national series is just not possible to justify with the other shite of life !!!!!!!!!!!!
Oh sod it where’s me gun I’ll put it to my head now……………

bugger no bullets………
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Old 24-08-2005, 11:52 AM   #28
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disregard my last post it's far to serious for me, anybody want a soap box, BluFin your an
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Old 25-08-2005, 11:30 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jon Fuller

And why did Ian Cutler 'whip' your sorry arse with his slow, oversized mono in the mid 90's in *most* of the races? (unless it was flat enough for your armchair to excel, ie, dead flat!)

Comfortable, maybe, undisputed, not in my book.
'Most of the races' - just counted the trophies, 6 national race wins. World Championships - 2nd, (Couldn't afford to do the euro's) National and World Speed Records.
The reason Ian beat us was down to better prep, navigation (u cant get worse than me) and dare I say driving.

And for the record, that year, out of the kindness of my heart I leant Mr Cutler an engine.

<EDIT> I love to play ‘ Devils Advocate’ on some posts, but I have got 40+ offshore wins<EDIT>
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Old 26-08-2005, 07:40 AM   #30
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jon Fuller
[B]I don't think there were any questions he sued the bloke that made the valves n stuff.....foolish! not a good way to keep ya cheating ways a secret!!



Is this fact ? we had no secret ballast tank during our term racing her and she made mimimum weight for racing in 6 litre when we took her out to the middle east totally confused?????
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Old 26-08-2005, 10:43 AM   #31
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spanked cats ?

Not all cats got spanked jf some cats even gave that 28B mono a beating in the very rough seas !
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Old 26-08-2005, 10:47 AM   #32
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and who can argue with the Guvnor of boat racing?
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Old 30-08-2005, 12:23 AM   #33
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My 24' Carlson raceboat has a hull very similar to the Bladerunner's;

www.icemarine.com

I'm testing it now at over 95mph. No V bottom with similar size, weight and power can come anywhere near those speeds.

The only V bottom that can stay with me is the 24' Batboat. A friend of mine in California is running over 100 in his Batboat with 600hp and the Volvo Duoprop drive.

I've flown my boat in rough water(3-4s on a lake here in Texas)coming from all different angles and it flies and lands level just like the Batboat.

I'll never go back to a straight V bottom(unless it's the new Dragon www.dragonpowerboats.com)
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Old 30-08-2005, 01:24 AM   #34
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any pictures of it
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Old 30-08-2005, 05:06 AM   #35
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sinkunit I'm in the process of getting some. Will post asap.
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Old 30-08-2005, 08:05 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dave.V
Is this fact ? we had no secret ballast tank during our term racing her and she made mimimum weight for racing in 6 litre when we took her out to the middle east totally confused?????
I'll see if I can get Mr Salmon to post on the subject.
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Old 30-08-2005, 08:06 AM   #37
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Re: spanked cats ?

Quote:
Originally posted by PHANTOM EVOLUTION
Not all cats got spanked jf, some cats even gave that 28B mono a beating in the very rough seas !
Neil, Maybe they had an 'off' day!
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Old 30-08-2005, 08:27 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ciao
The reason Ian beat us was down to better navigation (u cant get worse than me)
I dunno, Lorenzo Bellami might argue with that, didn't he monumentally f*ck up in SA costing team 'Large it' the worlds?

sorry Loz
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Old 30-08-2005, 10:30 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally posted by BluFin
IMHO there should be no weight limit, you wanna lightweight have one, wanna heavyweight have one. Class III was a devlopment class in it's early days for peoples ideas. With so many hull restictions, steps, spray rails, % spray rails. Where is the freedom to create & advance. Basically it was stock motors with free Hull. That is not the case now.
As for the patented spray rails of the mannfelt they were there years before nothing original there. Lets face it technically you couldn't run an old Blagg in class IIIb or IIIc coz of the design of the Hull, and thats a old production boat
Look at when Derrick Mortimore won the 1.3Ltr World Champs in Guernsey in '85. He was using a 70's/early 80's Winner Stapley Mono. He didn't win any of the heats but came 2nd in all three. Thats consistentcy for you!!!
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Old 30-08-2005, 10:56 PM   #40
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Yep and we alll cheered Derrick & Kay all the way home a great result from a very warm and genuine bloke.
Consistency is what will win you a championship would never disagree wth that.
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