Boatmad.com


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 20-08-2005, 09:18 AM   #1
numbskull
 
Jon Fuller's Avatar
 
Country: United Kingdom
Location: South
Occupation: none
Interests: none
Boat name: Leviathan
Boat make: Phantom 28
Cruising area: South Coast

Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: South
Posts: 15,959
If it aint a Cat!.......

I've just been watching the freeze frame "and they swam away" video, and just wanted to say, that almost without exception, it's the pussy cats that wind up being worn as a hat!

There's plenty of 'spin-outs' in the Monos (and cats), and a few structural failures, but the 'air entrapment' boys definitely need to keep an eye on roll stability!

reckon i'm too old! I'll stick wiv me Dawg
__________________

__________________
.

"I Agree with everything you say really!" - John Cooke to Jon Fuller - 26-01-2013
Jon Fuller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-08-2005, 09:24 AM   #2
Registered User
 
Tony Davis's Avatar
 
Country: Job Centre
Location: In a box
Occupation: Chaos's gofer
Interests: Skiving
Boat make: Spectre 30
Engines: 2 x Promax 225
Cruising area: In the bath

Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: In a box
Posts: 5,201
Poof!
__________________

Tony Davis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-08-2005, 09:30 AM   #3
numbskull
 
Jon Fuller's Avatar
 
Country: United Kingdom
Location: South
Occupation: none
Interests: none
Boat name: Leviathan
Boat make: Phantom 28
Cruising area: South Coast

Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: South
Posts: 15,959
mmmmn, this poof wants to stay 'alive n kicking'!
__________________
.

"I Agree with everything you say really!" - John Cooke to Jon Fuller - 26-01-2013
Jon Fuller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-08-2005, 10:42 AM   #4
Traveling
 
Country: UK
Location: Alderholt
Occupation: Aerospace
Boat name: T/T D2S
Boat make: Midas 27' Cat, Argo 16 Cat. Avon Rib Thingy
Engines: Merc 280-ROS -JSRE,65Xs, 75 Stinger, Yam 60
Cruising area: Any Seedy Bar

Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Alderholt
Posts: 4,225
Quote:
Originally posted by Jon Fuller
mmmmn, this poof wants to stay 'alive n kicking'!
Change your

Jon Fuller
Macho bastud!

thingy then
__________________
It is impossible to lick your elbow.

Team25Racing.com

At least 75% of people who read this will try to lick their elbow!
BluFin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-08-2005, 10:59 AM   #5
numbskull
 
Jon Fuller's Avatar
 
Country: United Kingdom
Location: South
Occupation: none
Interests: none
Boat name: Leviathan
Boat make: Phantom 28
Cruising area: South Coast

Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: South
Posts: 15,959
__________________
.

"I Agree with everything you say really!" - John Cooke to Jon Fuller - 26-01-2013
Jon Fuller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-08-2005, 09:55 AM   #6
Registered User
 
glen76's Avatar
 
Country: england
Location: southampton
Occupation: engineer
Interests: lots
Boat make: scorpion 8.1
Engines: 250HO
Cruising area: solent

Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: southampton
Posts: 1,348
is tt volume 2 jonny.. i just been watchin it too and funily i thought exactly the same thing, infact my thought carried on a little further with how much recovery the monos have when they end up almost on their side, usually the crew get spat out but the boat just bobs back!! mind you im sure there is only 6mins footage just repeated over and over
glen76 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-08-2005, 10:06 AM   #7
Registered User
 

Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 6,867
Think Jon's is vol 1 (I've got vol2 here in front of me).
Most of the footage is reused between vol1 & 2 though.
Here's a snippet from vol1 http://www.freezeframe.us/video/crashes.rm , if you have vol2 you'll recognise most of the footage.
Matt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-08-2005, 02:25 AM   #8
Registered User
 
Ciao's Avatar
 
Country: England
Location: Great Horwood

Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Great Horwood
Posts: 2,372
Send a message via Skype™ to Ciao
You have to endure the 'odd swim' to enjoy the 'armchair ride' of the cat.
Even if I was totally lagging - I wouldn’t get back into a racing mono, they are an outdated, bone breaking, bruise making, organ mixing nightmare (i.e. my avator) fit only for the novice who hasn’t yet experienced the ‘Rolls Royce’ of the blue water!
Ciao is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-08-2005, 08:42 AM   #9
numbskull
 
Jon Fuller's Avatar
 
Country: United Kingdom
Location: South
Occupation: none
Interests: none
Boat name: Leviathan
Boat make: Phantom 28
Cruising area: South Coast

Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: South
Posts: 15,959
Fabio 'came & went', mebbe he's still just a 'novice'.

If 'the cat' was so undisputed as the offshore steed, why, after all these years, is only one racing, and that aint winning! (sorry Adam)

And why did Ian Cutler 'whip' your sorry arse with his slow, oversized mono in the mid 90's in *most* of the races? (unless it was flat enough for your armchair to excel, ie, dead flat!)

Comfortable, maybe, undisputed, not in my book.
__________________
.

"I Agree with everything you say really!" - John Cooke to Jon Fuller - 26-01-2013
Jon Fuller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-08-2005, 09:12 AM   #10
Senior Member
 
Adam's Avatar
 
Country: England - South Island
Location: Isle of Wight
Occupation: Boat Designer
Interests: PowerBoating, Catamaran sailing, Triathlon, Mountain Biking,
Boat name: Technohull
Boat make: 999
Engines: Verado x 2
Cruising area: cruising sounds too slow

Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Isle of Wight
Posts: 1,829
No its not winning - although it is getting closer and we are now the quickest boat on certain legs in races.

It just shows how the class has evolved and it is tough to get to the front. The Mannerfelts are fortunate that there have been many evolutions of the design and they are now a very good boat with a few vices. If we had the oportunity to design the next cat I believe it would be winning regularly. Then again I'm confident that if I designed my latest monohull that would also win regularly. Again I only had one boat as a prototype and that was succesful.

Another problem is the course / type of racing have changed since I designed my boat and that would certainly change a few characteristics of a next boat.
__________________
www.adamyoungerdesign.com
Adam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-08-2005, 10:06 AM   #11
Registered User
 

Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 276
Adam, all, what's your opinion on the rule changes that were bought into force years ago to increase the minimum weight of the Cats over the mono's? Are they still relevant / needed?

I think this was done to stem the dominance of the one-off build race cats?

This coincided with the introduction the following year? of the Mannerfelt boat (then the only stepped mono's) hence their dominace ever since - they were the quickest mono's at the time and suddenly had a weight advantage over the cats.

If the rules were changed back so there was no difference between minimum weights would the Cats not be the boat of choice?
John G is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-08-2005, 10:21 AM   #12
Senior Member
 
Adam's Avatar
 
Country: England - South Island
Location: Isle of Wight
Occupation: Boat Designer
Interests: PowerBoating, Catamaran sailing, Triathlon, Mountain Biking,
Boat name: Technohull
Boat make: 999
Engines: Verado x 2
Cruising area: cruising sounds too slow

Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Isle of Wight
Posts: 1,829
I think the weight rules need looking at - but probably need to be kept for some classes. Really as a way of keeping costs down more than anything else.

Then if it a cost based thing there does need to be a difference between cats and monos. It is just about impossible to build a cat as light as a mono using the same level of materials - but then it is just about impossible to build a cat for the same money as a mono anyway! All done a cat is going to be more complicated and have more surface area than a mono.

Maybe some justification is saying a cat does not experience the loads that a mono does - but depend how you are using it and where you are racing it as well - so a tricky game to play.

Then where do mono with wings fit into all this?
__________________
www.adamyoungerdesign.com
Adam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-08-2005, 10:23 AM   #13
Senior Member
 
Adam's Avatar
 
Country: England - South Island
Location: Isle of Wight
Occupation: Boat Designer
Interests: PowerBoating, Catamaran sailing, Triathlon, Mountain Biking,
Boat name: Technohull
Boat make: 999
Engines: Verado x 2
Cruising area: cruising sounds too slow

Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Isle of Wight
Posts: 1,829
Oh and wings not being allowed in class 3 - comes out of the rule book next year!
__________________
www.adamyoungerdesign.com
Adam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-08-2005, 10:23 AM   #14
numbskull
 
Jon Fuller's Avatar
 
Country: United Kingdom
Location: South
Occupation: none
Interests: none
Boat name: Leviathan
Boat make: Phantom 28
Cruising area: South Coast

Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: South
Posts: 15,959
The B-28 'Wing & a Prayer', came out in '94, in 4 litre, and in most cases 'spanked' the cats, and everything else. I don't think the weight ruling between cat and mono existed then, but I could be wrong.
__________________
.

"I Agree with everything you say really!" - John Cooke to Jon Fuller - 26-01-2013
Jon Fuller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-08-2005, 10:35 AM   #15
numbskull
 
Jon Fuller's Avatar
 
Country: United Kingdom
Location: South
Occupation: none
Interests: none
Boat name: Leviathan
Boat make: Phantom 28
Cruising area: South Coast

Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: South
Posts: 15,959
A couple a pics
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	batboat28.jpg
Views:	503
Size:	170.2 KB
ID:	5036  
__________________
.

"I Agree with everything you say really!" - John Cooke to Jon Fuller - 26-01-2013
Jon Fuller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-08-2005, 10:36 AM   #16
numbskull
 
Jon Fuller's Avatar
 
Country: United Kingdom
Location: South
Occupation: none
Interests: none
Boat name: Leviathan
Boat make: Phantom 28
Cruising area: South Coast

Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: South
Posts: 15,959
2
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	batboat.jpg
Views:	468
Size:	17.2 KB
ID:	5037  
__________________
.

"I Agree with everything you say really!" - John Cooke to Jon Fuller - 26-01-2013
Jon Fuller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-08-2005, 10:41 AM   #17
Traveling
 
Country: UK
Location: Alderholt
Occupation: Aerospace
Boat name: T/T D2S
Boat make: Midas 27' Cat, Argo 16 Cat. Avon Rib Thingy
Engines: Merc 280-ROS -JSRE,65Xs, 75 Stinger, Yam 60
Cruising area: Any Seedy Bar

Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Alderholt
Posts: 4,225
IMHO there should be no weight limit, you wanna lightweight have one, wanna heavyweight have one. Class III was a devlopment class in it's early days for peoples ideas. With so many hull restictions, steps, spray rails, % spray rails. Where is the freedom to create & advance. Basically it was stock motors with free Hull. That is not the case now.
As for the patented spray rails of the mannfelt they were there years before nothing original there. Lets face it technically you couldn't run an old Blagg in class IIIb or IIIc coz of the design of the Hull, and thats a old production boat
__________________
It is impossible to lick your elbow.

Team25Racing.com

At least 75% of people who read this will try to lick their elbow!
BluFin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-08-2005, 10:42 AM   #18
Senior Member
 
Adam's Avatar
 
Country: England - South Island
Location: Isle of Wight
Occupation: Boat Designer
Interests: PowerBoating, Catamaran sailing, Triathlon, Mountain Biking,
Boat name: Technohull
Boat make: 999
Engines: Verado x 2
Cruising area: cruising sounds too slow

Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Isle of Wight
Posts: 1,829
Quote:
Originally posted by Jon Fuller
The B-28 'Wing & a Prayer', came out in '94, in 4 litre, and in most cases 'spanked' the cats, and everything else. I don't think the weight ruling between cat and mono existed then,but I could be wrong.
Weight rules were in then - remember there were questions as to whether she had a false ballast tank fitted to get round the weight issue?
Adam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-08-2005, 10:44 AM   #19
numbskull
 
Jon Fuller's Avatar
 
Country: United Kingdom
Location: South
Occupation: none
Interests: none
Boat name: Leviathan
Boat make: Phantom 28
Cruising area: South Coast

Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: South
Posts: 15,959
I agree, stock motors, open hull weight/design. trouble is, everyone's so scared of liability, they don't want the speeds gettin crazy, which they inevitably would.
__________________
.

"I Agree with everything you say really!" - John Cooke to Jon Fuller - 26-01-2013
Jon Fuller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-08-2005, 10:46 AM   #20
numbskull
 
Jon Fuller's Avatar
 
Country: United Kingdom
Location: South
Occupation: none
Interests: none
Boat name: Leviathan
Boat make: Phantom 28
Cruising area: South Coast

Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: South
Posts: 15,959
Quote:
Originally posted by Adam
Weight rules were in then - remember there were questions as to whether she had a false ballast tank fitted to get round the weight issue?
I don't think there were any questions he sued the bloke that made the valves n stuff.....foolish! not a good way to keep ya cheating ways a secret!!

I know there was a minimum weight limit, but didn't know if the different weight for cats n monos was in then.
__________________

__________________
.

"I Agree with everything you say really!" - John Cooke to Jon Fuller - 26-01-2013
Jon Fuller is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT +1. The time now is 04:29 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
×