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08-04-2013, 09:53 PM
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#21
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Registered User
Location: Leicestershire
Occupation: Electrician
Interests: Pointy boats and ribs
Boat make: Rib
Engines: Mercury
Cruising area: south west
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Leicestershire
Posts: 113
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Any info on this, was it produced as a one off
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08-04-2013, 11:01 PM
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#22
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numbskull
Country: United Kingdom
Location: South
Occupation: none
Interests: none
Boat name: Leviathan
Boat make: Phantom 28
Cruising area: South Coast
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: South
Posts: 15,959
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Yes, there were a few 26 one-off's made, not sure how many though. a sterndrive 27 was also made (from the 23)
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"I Agree with everything you say really!" - John Cooke to Jon Fuller - 26-01-2013
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09-04-2013, 10:17 AM
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#23
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Registered User
Country: UK
Location: South Coast
Occupation: Intelligence analyst
Boat name: ARTEMIS
Boat make: Phantom 23
Engines: Mercury Optimax 225
Cruising area: South Coast
Join Date: May 2012
Location: South Coast
Posts: 13
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Thanks Jon, That's really useful - someone else had mentioned that it has the potential to spear in in a following sea when the driver runs out of talent. (in my case frequently).
You mentioned that Steve Baker had re-designed the running surface of the the P21 after the P600. What do the later running surfaces do that the older surfaces don't? Is the P23 given to instability more than any other V pad hull system?
Thanks Jon - really appreciate your help.
G
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09-04-2013, 03:59 PM
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#24
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Registered User
Country: US
Location: Virginia
Interests: Quiet desperation
Boat name: A Little Noisy
Boat make: Excalibur 24
Engines: Express Racing 525
Cruising area: Mobjack Bay (where?)
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Virginia
Posts: 1,974
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Stern drive 23?
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I thought that having more patience was a result of my getting older. Turns out that I just don't give a sh*t.
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09-04-2013, 08:24 PM
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#25
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Registered User
Country: Guernsey Channel Isles
Location: West Coast
Occupation: Hotelier
Interests: Powerboat racing
Boat name: Vodkatini,Cap Camarat,Easy RiderSuper Rider & Hirrondelle
Boat make: Phantom 21,Jeaneau 925 Avenger19.Lorne Campbell Slipstream Tremlett 21.Tigershark 21
Engines: Volvo 5 litre,Merc 115 Tower,Twin 250 Suzukis and 145 Mercruiser LX
Cruising area: Channel Islands and French coast
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: West Coast
Posts: 612
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I remember seein an immaculate Phantom 23 race in Guernsey powered by twin V6 mercury and a tandem deck. I think it was called Aphrodisiac but the commentator revered to it as Aphrodite ! Where is it now I wonder ?
It won by the way and was just before powerboat week kicked off late seventies
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Guernsey - The home of offshore powerboat racing
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09-04-2013, 08:27 PM
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#26
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numbskull
Country: United Kingdom
Location: South
Occupation: none
Interests: none
Boat name: Leviathan
Boat make: Phantom 28
Cruising area: South Coast
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: South
Posts: 15,959
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The changes to the P21 following the P600 re-vamp were subtle. Slightly better stability at very high speed I believe, so we're talking in the extreme.
The only thing I understand was tough re the original P23 (75-80) was the lack of recovery in the forefoot leading to an easier boat to stick the nose in, as you say, especially in a following sea. I don't think it had any particular issues of 'stability' as such.
Steve considers the later P23 to be his best all-round design.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dryad Maritime
You mentioned that Steve Baker had re-designed the running surface of the the P21 after the P600. What do the later running surfaces do that the older surfaces don't? Is the P23 given to instability more than any other V pad hull system?
Thanks Jon - really appreciate your help.
G
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"I Agree with everything you say really!" - John Cooke to Jon Fuller - 26-01-2013
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09-04-2013, 09:34 PM
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#27
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Registered User
Location: Leicestershire
Occupation: Electrician
Interests: Pointy boats and ribs
Boat make: Rib
Engines: Mercury
Cruising area: south west
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Leicestershire
Posts: 113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Dutch
I remember seein an immaculate Phantom 23 race in Guernsey powered by twin V6 mercury and a tandem deck. I think it was called Aphrodisiac but the commentator revered to it as Aphrodite ! Where is it now I wonder ?
It won by the way and was just before powerboat week kicked off late seventies
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This one ?
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09-04-2013, 09:47 PM
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#28
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Registered User
Country: UK
Location: South Coast
Occupation: Intelligence analyst
Boat name: ARTEMIS
Boat make: Phantom 23
Engines: Mercury Optimax 225
Cruising area: South Coast
Join Date: May 2012
Location: South Coast
Posts: 13
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Thanks again Jon. Really helpful!
The boat has been largely re-built (transom/deck/dash/bow section frames) but as i mentioned in the earlier post the rest of the boat is very lightly constructed. Given that we now know that the boat is approaching 40 years old, does anyone know of any specific issues with fibreglass degradation / de-lamination and risk from shattering under high impacts? (there is no know osmosis problem).
We haven't had the boat formally surveyed - would a surveyor be able to check its safety and ability to do 50 kts; get airborne in the rough and land at that speed + gravity 35-40 years after being built? has anyone else had any problems like this with a boat of this vintage?
G
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09-04-2013, 09:47 PM
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#29
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Registered User
Country: Guernsey Channel Isles
Location: West Coast
Occupation: Hotelier
Interests: Powerboat racing
Boat name: Vodkatini,Cap Camarat,Easy RiderSuper Rider & Hirrondelle
Boat make: Phantom 21,Jeaneau 925 Avenger19.Lorne Campbell Slipstream Tremlett 21.Tigershark 21
Engines: Volvo 5 litre,Merc 115 Tower,Twin 250 Suzukis and 145 Mercruiser LX
Cruising area: Channel Islands and French coast
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: West Coast
Posts: 612
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That's the one ,complete with lady co driver.
Thinking about it a year or two earlier a phantom 18 had rolled up with the new 175 v6 that followed a Martian 150 all the way around till last lap then it pulled away and that won too.Ail Garriad that one was called
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Guernsey - The home of offshore powerboat racing
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09-04-2013, 09:51 PM
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#30
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Registered User
Country: Guernsey Channel Isles
Location: West Coast
Occupation: Hotelier
Interests: Powerboat racing
Boat name: Vodkatini,Cap Camarat,Easy RiderSuper Rider & Hirrondelle
Boat make: Phantom 21,Jeaneau 925 Avenger19.Lorne Campbell Slipstream Tremlett 21.Tigershark 21
Engines: Volvo 5 litre,Merc 115 Tower,Twin 250 Suzukis and 145 Mercruiser LX
Cruising area: Channel Islands and French coast
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: West Coast
Posts: 612
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Dryad stop worrying and just keep the power on when you are out there.you have a great classic there which I am sure will go on for another 50 years !
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Guernsey - The home of offshore powerboat racing
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09-04-2013, 10:01 PM
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#31
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Registered User
Country: UK
Location: South Coast
Occupation: Intelligence analyst
Boat name: ARTEMIS
Boat make: Phantom 23
Engines: Mercury Optimax 225
Cruising area: South Coast
Join Date: May 2012
Location: South Coast
Posts: 13
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Thanks Big Dutch! :-)
Because this is a work project I have to be a bit more thorough with the dreaded health and safety and risk assessments! Quite how we risk assess the smoke grenades and pyros is next month's problem - I am sure they mix well with petrol :-)
Personally though, I have really enjoyed and valued the knowledge on the forum. There's loads of experience of the Phantoms in the forum and i can see myself taking the boat out at the weekend....
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09-04-2013, 10:03 PM
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#32
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Registered User
Country: Guernsey Channel Isles
Location: West Coast
Occupation: Hotelier
Interests: Powerboat racing
Boat name: Vodkatini,Cap Camarat,Easy RiderSuper Rider & Hirrondelle
Boat make: Phantom 21,Jeaneau 925 Avenger19.Lorne Campbell Slipstream Tremlett 21.Tigershark 21
Engines: Volvo 5 litre,Merc 115 Tower,Twin 250 Suzukis and 145 Mercruiser LX
Cruising area: Channel Islands and French coast
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: West Coast
Posts: 612
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dryad Maritime
Thanks Big Dutch! :-)
Because this is a work project I have to be a bit more thorough with the dreaded health and safety and risk assessments! Quite how we risk assess the smoke grenades and pyros is next month's problem - I am sure they mix well with petrol :-)
Personally though, I have really enjoyed and valued the knowledge on the forum. There's loads of experience of the Phantoms in the forum and i can see myself taking the boat out at the weekend....
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Sounds like one of our races over here !
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Guernsey - The home of offshore powerboat racing
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09-04-2013, 11:12 PM
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#33
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numbskull
Country: United Kingdom
Location: South
Occupation: none
Interests: none
Boat name: Leviathan
Boat make: Phantom 28
Cruising area: South Coast
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: South
Posts: 15,959
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Dutch
I remember seein an immaculate Phantom 23 race in Guernsey powered by twin V6 mercury and a tandem deck. I think it was called Aphrodisiac
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That was Peter & Jan Armstrong. They raced a series of Phantom products, most famously the ' BRUT' sponsored 25, then 28 Phantoms of the 80's & 90's. For a while the red Class II P28 ' BRUT' was renamed Aphrodisiac aswel.
It was Peter who commissioned Steve Baker to design & build the P28 for his entry in the 1984 Round Britain race organised by Tim Powell.
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"I Agree with everything you say really!" - John Cooke to Jon Fuller - 26-01-2013
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10-04-2013, 07:52 AM
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#34
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BananaShark Member
Country: UK
Location: Salcombe South Devon
Occupation: Racer and builder
Interests: Winning races
Boat name: BananaShark
Boat make: BananaShark 34' Race
Engines: Twin Yanmar BY 260's
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Salcombe South Devon
Posts: 4,638
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dryad Maritime
We haven't had the boat formally surveyed - would a surveyor be able to check its safety and ability to do 50 kts; get airborne in the rough and land at that speed + gravity 35-40 years after being built? has anyone else had any problems like this with a boat of this vintage?
G
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I have yet to find a surveyor (not to say there isn't one) who could give you a reliable answer on that I'm afraid, very few have experience in boats capable of this speed.
Having said that most issues of a boat of this size should be visible to the naked eye unless they have been painted over, in which case they will become visible again after use!
__________________
Cookee
British Champions! RIB Formula 1 2005
National Speed Record Holder at 90.15 (still)
www.bananasharkracing.com
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10-04-2013, 11:02 AM
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#35
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Registered User
Country: uk
Location: salcombe
Occupation: semi retired
Interests: racing(middle east class 3 6l)
Boat name: still no worries
Boat make: phantom18
Engines: 2.5 efi
Cruising area: salcombe
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: salcombe
Posts: 499
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cracks
stress cracks are common place on this type of boat, only a f--king idiot would think they were structural, my p18 looks like crazy paving but is still a strong race boat.
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11-04-2013, 09:30 AM
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#36
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 174
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Quote:
Originally Posted by still no worries
stress cracks are common place on this type of boat, only a f--king idiot would think they were structural, my p18 looks like crazy paving but is still a strong race boat.
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Crazing is normally down to the gel coat being a bit to thick 0.25 mm or 600g per m/2 is the max any thicker and it will craze the problem starts when water gets under the gel coat.
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11-04-2013, 11:25 AM
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#37
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Registered User
Country: UK
Location: South Coast
Occupation: Intelligence analyst
Boat name: ARTEMIS
Boat make: Phantom 23
Engines: Mercury Optimax 225
Cruising area: South Coast
Join Date: May 2012
Location: South Coast
Posts: 13
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Thanks Russ and S.N.W.
Its interesting to hear about whats normal in these boats and why they crack.
To see this question to it's conclusion, what are the signs that a cosmetic crack had become a structural one?
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11-04-2013, 04:18 PM
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#38
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Registered User
Country: england
Location: surrey
Engines: none at the mo
Cruising area: south coast
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: surrey
Posts: 472
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stress cracks/ crazing
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dryad Maritime
Thanks Russ and S.N.W.
Its interesting to hear about whats normal in these boats and why they crack.
To see this question to it's conclusion, what are the signs that a cosmetic crack had become a structural one?
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on most performance boats the decks are layed up lighter to save on weight as they do not take a bashing as the hull does, ive landed off of a big wave in a p21 and the hull has come down on its side and the deck looks almost as if its flexed the other way, thus causing cracking etc, i read somewhere that the weather can cause crazing in the gel, with expantion contraction etc, the hulls on most boats are layed up strong and very rarely see a crack unless its hit something, most boats that i have owned with stress cracks have only ever been on the foredeck, as i mentioned you can push the deck fibreglass in with your fingers its so flimsey, but you cant with the hull, well you shouldnt be able too, just my experiences
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12-04-2013, 01:18 PM
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#39
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Registered User
Location: Leicestershire
Occupation: Electrician
Interests: Pointy boats and ribs
Boat make: Rib
Engines: Mercury
Cruising area: south west
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Leicestershire
Posts: 113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Fuller
That was Peter & Jan Armstrong. They raced a series of Phantom products, most famously the 'BRUT' sponsored 25, then 28 Phantoms of the 80's & 90's. For a while the red Class II P28 'BRUT' was renamed Aphrodisiac aswel.
It was Peter who commissioned Steve Baker to design & build the P28 for his entry in the 1984 Round Britain race organised by Tim Powell.
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Heres some photos of BRUT 1984 and Aphrodisiac 1986
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12-04-2013, 01:28 PM
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#40
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Registered User
Location: Leicestershire
Occupation: Electrician
Interests: Pointy boats and ribs
Boat make: Rib
Engines: Mercury
Cruising area: south west
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Leicestershire
Posts: 113
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Photos of BRUT 89
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