Mould for sale

roofer · 30-05-2007, 09:26 AM

www.boatsandoutboards.co.uk/view/LWC032/

Carl · 30-05-2007, 10:09 AM

Jon Fuller · 30-05-2007, 10:36 AM

"This is your chance to make ribs. This mould cost in the region of £30,000 to make due to research and testing to plugs to get it right. So grab a proven working rib mould at a bargain price of only £14,000."

That piece of shit (I'm talking about leeway himself) Is a delusional, lying tosspot!

What a complete and utter wanker!

Carl · 30-05-2007, 10:40 AM

wonder why he has not advertised it on the dinghy site

Jon Fuller · 30-05-2007, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carl

wonder why he has not advertised it on the dinghy site

glen76 · 30-05-2007, 04:00 PM

Playing devils advocate slightly. Was the splashing or familiarity with SBs design verified in real world or just forum based???

Ben · 31-05-2007, 12:05 AM

Don't hold back Jf. How do you really feel about Leeway?

robbie · 31-05-2007, 01:03 AM

I don't know the guy, but his Ribs do sell.

Maybe a case of any publicity is good publicity!!!!! After all he has featured on enough forums - ie. everyones heard of him.

Gav · 31-05-2007, 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robbie

I don't know the guy, but his Ribs do sell.

Maybe a case of any publicity is good publicity!!!!! After all he has featured on enough forums - ie. everyones heard of him.

robbie, this guy takes the piss! he is trying to make a huge profit off the back of a very respected boatbuilder! anyone can do what he has done. if it was my hull he'd splashed i'd be having a dicky fit!!!

paul tilley · 01-06-2007, 02:22 PM

perhaps he is selling in order to raise cash to bribe MR FULLER for the loan of a certain P31 ???

kitten · 01-06-2007, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by paul tilley

perhaps he is selling in order to raise cash to bribe MR FULLER for the loan of a certain P31 ???

paul tilley · 01-06-2007, 04:50 PM

sorry couldnt resist it ,no offence meant

glen76 · 01-06-2007, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glen76

Playing devils advocate slightly. Was the splashing or familiarity with SBs design verified in real world or just forum based???

Jon Fuller · 01-06-2007, 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glen76

glen76 · 02-06-2007, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jon Fuller

in all fairness anyone that says his boats are good value is telling the truth, but thats all they are... build is rough around the edges to say the least but if the splashing has never really been verified and is all hear say it really aint fair on the dude...

if it has then shame on them that buy his gear...
(if ur not part of the solution ur part of the problem)

Jon Fuller · 02-06-2007, 01:48 PM

Well Glen, I'm 110% sure of my facts, in fact, 120%, so I will continue as I was.
If you want to beleve him, fine, but...bear in mind, a friend of mine walked into his workshop, where he had a Phantom 25 upside down, all waxed and ready to go. shortly after that, his newly developed 8.3 metre rib was unveiled. (the one that he is currently selling the mould for) He claimed at the time, there was no point in doing his own, because someone would just copy it.... I actually doubt that to be the case, but hey.

I reccognise the P18 base of his 6.3, and have no reason to doubt my belief, as he also advertised looking for one to build a rib from, and subsequently sold it after doing the deed, he even tried selling it on here.

You can carry on giving him the benifit of your doubt, that is your perogative, but please don't try to push it on me.

JF

Rogue Wave · 02-06-2007, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jon Fuller

I reccognise the P18 base of his 6.3, and have no reason to doubt my belief, as he also advertised looking for one to build a rib from, and subsequently sold it after doing the deed, he even tried selling it on here.

JF

We were storing one in our unit which gave Jon a very good opportunity for a sniff around it. What was disturbing (or impressive!) was that Jon noticed a hook in it from across the yard. I think it's fair to say that JF would know a Phantom hull shape when he saw it

On a mathematical basis if the mould cost 30,000 to develop that's a large investment to recoup you'd have to stick 3000 on the cost of each rib to regain that (with interest ) over the production of 12 ribs. That's a lot of 8.5 m ribs to knock out in a year. Lee's ribs are cheap so where is the savings gonna be made? Robbie you say his ribs sell do you know how many ?

glen76 · 02-06-2007, 09:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jon Fuller

You can carry on giving him the benifit of your doubt, that is your perogative, but please don't try to push it on me.

JF

Im not carrying on just asking jon!!!!!!!! And i was suprised at the silence hence repeated mentioning.

im not trying to push anything on anyone neither. I was mearly asking for clarification as im suprised at the number of people who buy his products... They must either have no morals or not understand/know!! A quick search on the blow up site will tell them all they need to know but id never heard a calculated answer. I never believe anything without evidence its the nature of my job..... Ur and Rogue waves answer says it all thanks!!! I think

robbie · 02-06-2007, 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rogue Wave

On a mathematical basis if the mould cost 30,000 to develop that's a large investment to recoup you'd have to stick 3000 on the cost of each rib to regain that (with interest ) over the production of 12 ribs. That's a lot of 8.5 m ribs to knock out in a year. Lee's ribs are cheap so where is the savings gonna be made? Robbie you say his ribs sell do you know how many ?

I know nothing about him or his business case for pricing his merchandise. Just that if you look at Leeways web site under boats for sale. he has a couple of ageing Shetlands up for sale, but all the RIBs have 'SOLD' emblazoned across them.
This industry is rife with splashing not only small one man outfits the big boys have been known to take an odd bit from here and there before now.
The chances are that JF is right and lets face it if you were going to do it why not use one of the best raceboats ever built. Now if he had asked me if he could splash my boat no one would be any the wiser, but that's because nobody has ever heard of a 1987 Cheetah not even me and I've got one. He could have quitely knocked them out and left pretty much alone.
If this guy is hounded to the point where his business goes bust and he has a heart attack who is ultimately going to benefit? None of us thats for sure, but if he now publicly acknowledges his moulds are copied off a Phantom, then he is going to be sued by every one who now owns the origional moulds even if they are just sitting around unused!
The blatant copying of another persons hard work is justifiably considered as theft. But is Steve Baker up in arms about this or has he got a wry smile on his face that his designs are still so desired? You would know more about that John.
This guy might be an out and out git or a bloke trying to chisel out a living the best way he can. As I say I don't know the fellow.

Rogue Wave · 02-06-2007, 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robbie

If this guy is hounded to the point where his business goes bust and he has a heart attack who is ultimately going to benefit? None of us thats for sure, but if he now publicly acknowledges his moulds are copied off a Phantom, then he is going to be sued by every one who now owns the origional moulds even if they are just sitting around unused!
The blatant copying of another persons hard work is justifiably considered as theft. But is Steve Baker up in arms about this or has he got a wry smile on his face that his designs are still so desired? You would know more about that John.
This guy might be an out and out git or a bloke trying to chisel out a living the best way he can. As I say I don't know the fellow.

The issue isn't about the splashing it's about the blatant and persistant claim to have designed the hull,further substantiated by the fact the mould is advertised at costing 30k to develop.

I can understand the metaphor about chiselling out a living, and have some empathy for it if the net result was that the cost of RIBS was driven down. But for me Lee's moral standpoint is demon strated by the cost of the mold wot he made.

So for me it's not a business I'd suport or ethics I'd respect