Boatmad.com


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 14-06-2006, 01:50 PM   #21
numbskull
 
Jon Fuller's Avatar
 
Country: United Kingdom
Location: South
Occupation: none
Interests: none
Boat name: Leviathan
Boat make: Phantom 28
Cruising area: South Coast

Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: South
Posts: 15,959
I guess it's possible, but generaly speaking, cleavers need to be spun real fast if they're struggling for grip.
__________________

__________________
.

"I Agree with everything you say really!" - John Cooke to Jon Fuller - 26-01-2013
Jon Fuller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-06-2006, 02:15 PM   #22
Registered User
 
Country: England
Location: Bournemouth
Boat make: Extreme 21
Engines: 5.7 EFI Mercruiser

Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Bournemouth
Posts: 160
Surely prop cavitation is the boat equivalent to wheelspin in a car. So the same rules should be applied? Wheelspin results in little forward movement and lots of engine revving, better to feed the power in at a rate the characheristics of the car can handle (unless its got a ltd slip diff/traction etc). Noisey was being revved so high, but surely anyone with some understanding of the problem would have tried to nurse it up to the plane whilst keeping cavitation to a minimum? Bit like running slicks on a race car with real high lift cams - loads of BHP and top end, but no tourque and little grip - would be all about loads of control and good clutch work out of the blocks.
__________________

Biggest Arms is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-06-2006, 02:16 PM   #23
Traveling
 
Country: UK
Location: Alderholt
Occupation: Aerospace
Boat name: T/T D2S
Boat make: Midas 27' Cat, Argo 16 Cat. Avon Rib Thingy
Engines: Merc 280-ROS -JSRE,65Xs, 75 Stinger, Yam 60
Cruising area: Any Seedy Bar

Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Alderholt
Posts: 4,225
Not the only one, think back a few years Apache, Roman Sabre + others all had a long winded planning procedure which on more than one occasion included towing onto the plane with one or more vessels. Some days they just wouldn't due conditions or would miss the start by up to 20 mins.
Its very easy to spend others hard won pennies but it really could do with somethin, coz at the end of the day it should FUN, which I suspect quickly dissapeared on the day
__________________
It is impossible to lick your elbow.

Team25Racing.com

At least 75% of people who read this will try to lick their elbow!
BluFin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-06-2006, 02:45 PM   #24
Registered User
 
littlenige's Avatar
 
Country: Spain

Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,724
Plus I remember the Jag powered tin mono Goldrush screaming it's head off trying to get on plane after leaving the harbour at Cowes many moons ago. Great to listen to but tough on the machinery.
littlenige is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-06-2006, 02:49 PM   #25
Registered User
 

Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 6,867
It's not the same at all. It "can" be the same, but it's much more complicated because a boat doesn't have gears or a clutch.

Some props, you're right, babying the boat onto the plane works, but cleavers in particular don't work until the boat is planing.

Quote:
Originally posted by Biggest Arms
Surely prop cavitation is the boat equivalent to wheelspin in a car. So the same rules should be applied? Wheelspin results in little forward movement and lots of engine revving, better to feed the power in at a rate the characheristics of the car can handle (unless its got a ltd slip diff/traction etc). Noisey was being revved so high, but surely anyone with some understanding of the problem would have tried to nurse it up to the plane whilst keeping cavitation to a minimum? Bit like running slicks on a race car with real high lift cams - loads of BHP and top end, but no tourque and little grip - would be all about loads of control and good clutch work out of the blocks.
Matt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-06-2006, 03:05 PM   #26
Registered User
 
glen76's Avatar
 
Country: england
Location: southampton
Occupation: engineer
Interests: lots
Boat make: scorpion 8.1
Engines: 250HO
Cruising area: solent

Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: southampton
Posts: 1,348
my mates sr8 is same, usually two people and gently does it on the throttle gets her up.. but i always wonder why he trims down to get his surface piercers biting to get on the plane... wouldnt he better triming up and letting them spin??
glen76 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-06-2006, 03:06 PM   #27
Registered User
 

Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 6,867
No. You're trying to get the boat over the hump. Trimming up makes the "hump" bigger.
Matt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-06-2006, 03:10 PM   #28
Registered User
 
Country: England
Location: Bournemouth
Boat make: Extreme 21
Engines: 5.7 EFI Mercruiser

Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Bournemouth
Posts: 160
If cleavers don't work until you get it on the plane, how are you supposed to get it on the plane? At least in Noiseys case, revving the bollocks off them, clearly doesn't work, as we saw at the weekend. I would like to see him at least try being a bit more sensative with the throttle. I understand you don't have a clutch on a boat, so surely even more reason to feed the power in more carefully.
Biggest Arms is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-06-2006, 03:14 PM   #29
Registered User
 
Country: England
Location: Bournemouth
Boat make: Extreme 21
Engines: 5.7 EFI Mercruiser

Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Bournemouth
Posts: 160
I think Noiseys biggest problem is its CG.
Biggest Arms is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-06-2006, 03:18 PM   #30
Registered User
 

Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 6,867
By "don't work", I mean they only work a very little bit, hence difficult to get on the plane. Once planing, they're very good.
When Ben throttles him, they usually manage to get there in the end. So there's obviously a technique involved for Mr Noisy.
Matt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-06-2006, 03:18 PM   #31
Registered User
 

Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 6,867
Disagree. CG is about right once the boat is running.
Props are the biggest problem.

Quote:
Originally posted by Biggest Arms
I think Noiseys biggest problem is its CG.
Matt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-06-2006, 03:20 PM   #32
Registered User
 
glen76's Avatar
 
Country: england
Location: southampton
Occupation: engineer
Interests: lots
Boat make: scorpion 8.1
Engines: 250HO
Cruising area: solent

Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: southampton
Posts: 1,348
sorry matt my mistake, he jacks the plate down and trims in
glen76 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-06-2006, 03:22 PM   #33
The Doc
 
Captain Chaos's Avatar
 

Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 8,281
is the truth of the matter......... that Mr noisy needs to key componants addressing?

More time
More money

??
Captain Chaos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-06-2006, 03:33 PM   #34
Registered User
 
Maxim Gibson's Avatar
 
Country: England
Location: Cowes, Isle of Wight
Occupation: Marine engineer/electrician
Interests: Boat, Landy, and other toys :)
Boat name: Mad Max/Master Fiddler
Boat make: Phantom 18/Fletcher Bravo
Engines: Merc XR2
Cruising area: Solent/IOW

Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Cowes, Isle of Wight
Posts: 935
Quote:
Originally posted by Biggest Arms
If cleavers don't work until you get it on the plane, how are you supposed to get it on the plane? At least in Noiseys case, revving the bollocks off them, clearly doesn't work, as we saw at the weekend. I would like to see him at least try being a bit more sensative with the throttle. I understand you don't have a clutch on a boat, so surely even more reason to feed the power in more carefully.
Sounds like he needs more paitence, when we had a cleaver on Patriot it was always a bitch to get on the plane, uncle would revs the arse of it and try to use the wave created to push him up, but dad would apply the throttle gently then as it got up give it a bit more and get it planing in a fraction of the time and revs.
__________________
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, grinning from ear to ear, overdosing on adrenaline and proclaiming “KINNEL!! WHAT A RIDE!!”
Maxim Gibson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-06-2006, 03:35 PM   #35
Registered User
 
cfun's Avatar
 
Country: uk
Location: poole
Occupation: retail
Interests: sport and being lazy
Boat make: ring rib
Engines: merc xr2
Cruising area: bournemouth bay

Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: poole
Posts: 1,681
Well one thing is for sure Mr Noisey stands a far better chance of racing with all the members of the forum behind her, as there is so much knowledge between the members somebody will find the right prop's for hopefully a reasonable price or maybe another type pf fiX? so we can all hear the fantastic sound of those big blocks again
__________________
i can na give her any more captain
cfun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-06-2006, 03:35 PM   #36
Registered User
 
Country: England
Location: Bournemouth
Boat make: Extreme 21
Engines: 5.7 EFI Mercruiser

Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Bournemouth
Posts: 160
Quote:
Originally posted by Matt
Disagree. CG is about right once the boat is running.
Props are the biggest problem.
But if he runs out of inward trim and he still can't get over the hump regardless of throttle technique, surely a little more weight at the front would help. This boat has 3 engines right? Thats gotta make the arse damn heavy.

Going back to a comment earlier, if the props are so bad for this, surely actually being able to get on the plane quickly is more advantageous than the extra top end, especially if you cant even get there at all!
Biggest Arms is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-06-2006, 03:50 PM   #37
Registered User
 

Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 6,867
2 engines, staggered.

A bit more bow weight might help get on the plane - but it has a 'kin huge bow tank already.

Prop availability is the problem - it has strange merc racing drives on it.
Matt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-06-2006, 03:53 PM   #38
numbskull
 
Jon Fuller's Avatar
 
Country: United Kingdom
Location: South
Occupation: none
Interests: none
Boat name: Leviathan
Boat make: Phantom 28
Cruising area: South Coast

Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: South
Posts: 15,959
Has anyone here that's arguing for the gently, gently approach considered the possibility, that the various, experienced race drivers that have driven this boat may have tried it already?

It needs different props, end of.
__________________
.

"I Agree with everything you say really!" - John Cooke to Jon Fuller - 26-01-2013
Jon Fuller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-06-2006, 03:54 PM   #39
Registered User
 
Country: England
Location: Bournemouth
Boat make: Extreme 21
Engines: 5.7 EFI Mercruiser

Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Bournemouth
Posts: 160
OK, well, whatever his problems are, lets hope he fixes them soon, would love to see/hear that beast on form ...
Biggest Arms is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-06-2006, 03:59 PM   #40
Registered User
 
Country: England
Location: Bournemouth
Boat make: Extreme 21
Engines: 5.7 EFI Mercruiser

Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Bournemouth
Posts: 160
Quote:
Originally posted by Jon Fuller
Has anyone here that's arguing for the gently, gently approach considered the possibility, that the various, experienced race drivers that have driven this boat may have tried it already?

It needs different props, end of.
Well, all these experienced drivers haven't done very well in rectifying the problem so far .. this boat been on the scene 20 years?

I wasn't saying it didn't need different props, I was just saying I thought the gently gently approach might be more successful than the cowboy approach ...
__________________

Biggest Arms is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT +1. The time now is 04:50 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
×