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Old 06-10-2010, 01:27 AM   #1
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New two stroke diesel engine

Just surfing the net and found a company that is developing a new 2 stroke diesel engine. Under applications they are talking about developing it for marine applications. Although not a new concept itís a pretty interesting design.

http://www.fairdiesel.co.uk/

http://www.fairdiesel.co.uk/Appl.html
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Old 06-10-2010, 02:02 PM   #2
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Good find looks really interesting for the boater ... although a more conventional 2 stroke diesel had been used quite extensively as far as I was aware from Detroit ...

this vid of an old dirty Detroit and its description is err interesting ...

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Old 06-10-2010, 03:59 PM   #3
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I had a 1990 Sunseeker 46 Camargue with Detroit 2 stroke diesels in it. (550hp each from memory)

Boat did 42 knots, not bad for a 46' cruiser I think.

Engines were great, plenty of low end grunt, and sounded quite good as well.
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Old 07-10-2010, 03:46 AM   #4
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I just got me one of them. 42 knots are you serious? Sounds like I need to get scrubbing.
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Old 07-10-2010, 09:56 AM   #5
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Seriously, no point in bullshi**. 42 Knotts.

I sold the boat years ago, but it was a fantastic boat, nothing to prove 10 years after I sold it. Great in a heavy sea, and great performance. It was probably the best boat I have owned / driven for all round capability, and the ability to have a bit of fun in.

The guy I sold it to, has only just sold it on to someone else. Does yours have a red/white hull? If so it is probably the same boat.
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Old 07-10-2010, 10:00 AM   #6
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No I'm blue and white and still sporting the french flag as the bleedin' froggie customs are a nightmare to deal with.

Don't suppose you have any old specs such as props etc?
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Old 07-10-2010, 10:34 AM   #7
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I Still have a comprehensive file on the boat.

The survey states that the props were 25dia x 33pitch 4 bladed bronze.

They were stamped 95824 Hamble and 95825 Hamble if this helps.

I have an original owners manual for Camargue 46 if you want it.

I am pretty sure that the Sunseeker spec sheet, (which I cant find right now) quoted 42knts as top speed when powered by the 550 Detroits.

I suspect therefore that the props were standard Sunseeker spec, so they might be able to help you further in this regard.

I do have survey photos of the props if you want them.
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Old 07-10-2010, 11:09 AM   #8
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Cor yeah every bit of info you've got helps. I've just bought this one down in Marseille and she was bought home a couple weeks ago.

Engines had full rebuild in 2007 and haven't done much since and run clean as a whistle. Did buy it blind though and the underside needs all the nasty froggie growth removed and we have some damage to props which I'd factored in.

So she hasn't been up on her toes yet. As far as I'd got with props was that they were designed and manufactured by Teignbridge but they had a number of specs including 3 bladers which if my thinking is right would be for the MAN variants.

Would make sense 4 blade on a six pot engine and 3 on an eight?
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Old 07-10-2010, 11:15 AM   #9
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2 stroke diesels

In 1965 Brave Moppie won the Cowes-Torquay race, & her Detroit diesels of 550hp each were 2 strokes I think.
Equally, Anglesea II another 1960's C-T race-cruiser had 2 Foden 2-stroke diesels as well.
The diagram shown for this (new ?) engine looks very similar to the Rootes diesels used in late 1950's/early 1960's for Commer Lorries & again, a marine version of 110 hp was used in boats (Rootes-Lister), by, among others, Morgan Giles of Teinmouth.
They produced Monaco cruisrs, which also raced in early C-T races, some with the Rootes-Lister engines, until they took up with Caterpiller for more power.
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Old 07-10-2010, 11:26 AM   #10
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I think your probably right. Get the correct props on it, ( I suggest sticking with the standard 4 blade), get it clean, and you will be amazed how well it goes for a 46 footer.

Fuel economy was really good as well. I always used to get about 250 miles out of 1000 litres, and always cruised at mid 30's knts. (Tanks were 1500 litre capacity I believe)

In those days fuel was 20p per litre and a fill only used to cost about £200 / £250, so economy was not the issue it is today.

Pm me your adress and I will post owners manual to you.

If you give me your e mail adress I will scan in my survey report and the photos included in it and e mail them to you.

Hope this all helps
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Old 07-10-2010, 01:29 PM   #11
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the props with hamble stamped on them will probaly be hamble props in coalpark lane swanwick, they might still have a record of them, ask for chris and tell em biff sent you
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Old 07-10-2010, 01:47 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin The Talker View Post
In 1965 Brave Moppie won the Cowes-Torquay race, & her Detroit diesels of 550hp each were 2 strokes I think.
Equally, Anglesea II another 1960's C-T race-cruiser had 2 Foden 2-stroke diesels as well.
The diagram shown for this (new ?) engine looks very similar to the Rootes diesels used in late 1950's/early 1960's for Commer Lorries & again, a marine version of 110 hp was used in boats (Rootes-Lister), by, among others, Morgan Giles of Teinmouth.
They produced Monaco cruisrs, which also raced in early C-T races, some with the Rootes-Lister engines, until they took up with Caterpiller for more power.
There was a pay and ride speed boat I went on years operating from, think it was Eastbourn pier bowered by Rootes-Lister engine, very interesting design. It was a 2 stroke supercherged horizontaly opposed diesel, the pistons con rods were connected to rocker arms that then has a second con rod driving the crank.

There is a link to some information and pictures below

http://www.oldengine.org/members/die...terTS3/TS3.htm
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Old 07-10-2010, 05:54 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cfun View Post
although a more conventional 2 stroke diesel had been used quite extensively as far as I was aware from Detroit ...
Coming from Poole I made that statement with those Sunseeker's in mind quite amazing

I'm sure I read back in the 80's their was a team using or going to use Detroit diesel engines for the old class 2. although I cannot recall if as a 2 stroke they would have carried some kind of additional cap on liter's

Do these 2 stroke engines have any downsides as it appears to be a great idea, but if it was a great idea surely the Big motor manufactures like Audi would have come out with a Diesel car 2 stroke by now
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Old 07-10-2010, 09:12 PM   #14
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Done a bit of reading up before I handed over the folding.

The consensus seems to be twice the parts on Detroits compared to Mans but they are half the price to repair. Longevity about the same.

No diesel pump on the Detroits, each injector is it's own pump run off the cam and the key difference is they need tuning to get the best out of them i.e. setting each individual injector flow rate. Think this is where the smokey ole Detroit statements might come from.

No inlet valves, charge air comes down from top of engine through air galleries in block and then through ports but does have exhaust valves (4 per cyl). Bloody great flapper arrangements over the air intakes for emergency shutdown once it starts eating it's own oil.

Other key difference is turbo and supercharged with shedloads of chrome around the Detroits being yank

550hp out of 8 and a bit litres so comparable to petrol big block chevy and only three times the weight

Long stroke small bore so huge low end torque figures and max HP at relatively low RPM.

Meant to be very easy to raise HP by simply swapping out injectors if you can keep up with the repair bills.
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Old 08-10-2010, 09:54 AM   #15
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Keep an eye on the emergency shut down air flaps, as they have a slight tendency to self activate and they tend to do it most when running at full power.

The reason they do it is because the actual spring loaded flap is held open by a retaining bracket, and after a while the vibrations leave the two parts not seated correctly, and then once the air pressure builds within the air tube, it can force the flap just a little more into the open position, and past the retaining part of the bracket.

At that point the spring loading takes over, the flap closes, causing an almight bang, and the motor shuts down instantly.

When it happens it frightens the f****ng life out of you. Its a big bang and your initial reaction is that you have blown a motor.

The way to prevent this happening is simply to twist the flap into its fully open position, by hand, after every half a dozen uses or so.
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Old 08-10-2010, 10:11 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freddy21 View Post
There was a pay and ride speed boat I went on years operating from, think it was Eastbourn pier bowered by Rootes-Lister engine, very interesting design. It was a 2 stroke supercherged horizontaly opposed diesel, the pistons con rods were connected to rocker arms that then has a second con rod driving the crank.

There is a link to some information and pictures below

http://www.oldengine.org/members/die...terTS3/TS3.htm
Very interesting to see the write-up.
Those Commer lorries I remember certainly roared like a lion when starting off from traffic lights, etc.!
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Old 08-10-2010, 07:58 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by motorvator View Post
.

Would make sense 4 blade on a six pot engine and 3 on an eight?

Would there be a mathamatical reason for this? when i wanted to re prop mine which are 25x25 i was constantly told by a prominent company to go 4 blade although they couldnt guarantee the same speed.They in fact said the figures didnt add up and i wasnt going as fast as i thought which was total rubbish.I percivered and found steel developments who restored my faith.
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Old 08-10-2010, 11:46 PM   #18
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Sorry catweazle don't read too much into my post. There is a line of thinking that with low revving engines you should avoid matching the number of blades to a multiple of cylinders but of course you have to factor in the gearbox ratios which sometimes excludes using say a four blade on a six pot engine or such. So I was thinking that maybe why they had different prop options for different engines. Thinking about I'm not even sure the mans are eight pot engines.

Of course it could have been something to do with torque availability across the rev ranges but one things for sure prop design is a real black art.

Talk to a guru and he'll tell the most efficient design is a huge dia single blade but obviously not pratical then he'll go totally the other way and say given the restriction of dia then the more blades the better in order to achieve max total blade area followed by of curse if running in a tunnel like the camargue we have to take account of blade tip proximity at which point I tend to glaze over a bit.
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