Phoney Phantoms (in this case Chaudron)

[Captain Chaos]

correct he seems spot on to me.

I dont want to know why you have that clip?

ah..........the Honda shows?

[Cookee]

All this for a feckin lawnmower!



definitely get a 3!

[kinfast]

Originally posted by Jon Fuller
To be honest, I find that VERY lame! One of the most upsetting things about splashers, is the "I've splashed your design and altered it minutely, and now it's MY design!" and hiding behind law and urban myth about the legendary 10% rule.
He either rolled all the steve baker boats over, waxed em, and splashed them, or he didn't!.....so which was it?

This was done to make money for himself!, without the outlay of building his own plug & moulds, I suspect he has neither the knowledge or skill to start from scratch, which is fine, few do! So why didn't he offer some deal of royalties, or payment for what he took?....I'll tell you why, because he is a thief!

You think this accusation is unfounded?....then sue me!



I'm rather surprised at that, as it doesn't mirror words/feelings he's shared with me.

I will be honest Jon, I have no idea if Chaudron 25 hull is exact copy of Phantom 25 or if Chaudron 33 is a stretched version of an exact copy of a Phantom 31 or 28. I am sure everyone would like to know, so why don't u bring your boat to Brighton on a trailer and we will measure them together. For a fact I know that the Chaudron decks are totally different from Phantom's, as they offer various different designs.

As for me taking legal action against u for slander, u should note that I am just a fast boat nut like yourself & do not make boats. U have not called me a thief, if u had, without evidence called me a
"thief" I would be suing u.

As for SB not liking me, u may well be right. Which just proves me right when I said, he might be a genius boat designer, but to sell & market your product sussesfully, liking your customer should not be factor. This maybe a factor in why Phantom Boats LTD did not reach its full potential & take full benefit of great boat designing. This is not a slur on SB, history is full of examples of great designs not being marketed properly.

I bought my 33, 3 months ago. SB retired sometime ago. If u know him so well maybe u could educate me as to when he retired.

Pre 1997 I have know idea what Chaudron did. However what I do know is that the only 2 Chaudron boats have been imported into the UK ever. U imply that Chaudron bought down a brilliant British company, this is rubbish & u know it.
To say SB marketed his boats all over Europe is a bit thin....as far as I'm aware he never did any direct marketing or advertising. He relied on selling his product to sellective niche customer base by reputation & word of mouth. This was his choice.

If u and SB are so upset & convinced that Chaudron stole (by splashing) SB's design, then why don't you take legal action,
Malta is a member of the EU so legally it is now quite easy.
If you win I would immediately sell my boat or pay SB royalties.

If SB laughed his head off at the 41 & u are right when saying it is a stretched copy of his design, then u are laughing at his own design. I have actually been there when the 41 plug was being worked on. U are right to that it is based on SB's hull design, however I think u will find that the important design dimentions
ie height, beam, chine spacing and layout etc are not as a result of a slash & stretch. As for copying a design concept, who 1st came up with the stepped hull, are all those manufacturers making stepped hulls thieves?

We all live in a big global market place where the inovative & good businesses thrive. There are laws & patent protection to prtect the inovators. So prove, put up or shut up.

You think I need to save a few bob. If u are right I will pay quite happily any royalties owed to SB.

.



Well, when I asked Steve to build my boat (far from std layout, in many respects) he couldn't have been any more helpfull!

During the build of my custom P28 in '99/00, he also built a P25 (the last) for a german customer, it had a basic, and rather small cabin beneath the foredeck! (this comment relates to an earlier post by you about wanting a 25 with cabin)

So he can't be that inflexible! maybe he didn't like you!

As you say, he never built a 33, but your boat clearly derived from the 28, and all this nonsense about whether or not it's an 'exact copy, or legal, is little more than an insult to Steve Baker, or anyone who feels strongly about his products, after all, the 33 isn't exactly the only SB product that they profit from is it?

Your conscience appears to be clear, as you bought at least one chaudron product, whilst SB was still producing the same thing here in the UK, this says to me that you're happy to assist in the bringing down a briliant British company, to save yourself a few bob! very sad indeed, and far from patriotic. So to 'wish him well' after kicking him squarely in the bollox is a tad on the two-faced & hypocritical side for my liking.

We are clearly very different people.

I'm still hopeful that Steve will 'come thru' with his new design for me of an all new 33 as promised, which if it materialises, clearly won't be going to Malta! (or Belgium & Holand)

Good luck with your boat.

I would appreciate you NOT pushing your boat to any boatmad members, as I don't want *my* website used to promote chaudron products, I don't think that's unreasonable.

Regards,

Jon Fuller

[Jono]

Well... feck" me!!! None of the above was easy to read... but I did pick up on one horrifying fact ! When did we let the feckin' Maltesers join the EU ? . I mean... Poland ..sure... Croatia... Ok...Slovenia.. if we must... but feckin' Malta? Hadn't they better finish building the place first?

[Jon Fuller]

Kinfast.
So much of what you say is misinformed, and wrong, and you clearly don't understand, nor care, so I can't be bothered to even attempt to straighten you out.

To sue within the marine industry for copyright theft is near impossible, even within the same country, and if you do start to get somewhere with a case, they'll either go pop, leaving you with all the legal costs, or have nowt to sue for anyway. If he had tried to sue eveyone who stole from him, he'd have been out of business 15 years earlier!

Things are obviously not gonna change, so best thing is, you stay away from Boatmad, and I'll stay away from Brighton.

[Johnny Rocket]

Originally posted by Jon Fuller
you stay away from Boatmad, and I'll stay away from Brighton.

Promise?

[Jon Fuller]

Originally posted by Johnny Rocket
Promise?

Hactually, I'm working there again next week (corn exchange again) but I'll stay away from the Marina.

[Dean21]

[Ben]

Originally posted by Jon Fuller
Hactually, I'm working there again next week (corn exchange again) but I'll stay away from the Marina.

Stop by in Bolney if Brighton gets to be too much for you.

And speaking of 'splashing'

Campion Boats, a Canadian company splashed a Velocity 30 and called it the Chase 900. Steve Stepp threatens to sue them so they change the bottom very slightly and then have the nerve to patent it!

Heres how their 'patented ' bottom is described on their web site

"APEX - The Pinnacle of Performance EXCLUSIVE
Campion's APEX hull has redefined bottom design and is the standard by which all other hulls are measured. The product of relentless testing, our award-winning design technology actually expands the high pressure zones on a vee-bottom boat for faster planing and a more stable platform at high speeds."

Another example. Steve Columbe, the late designer and builder of HTM powerboats had to sue to recover the splashed moulds of his boat. He won and the moulds were crushed.

There is a very long and imformative splashing thread on OSO
http://www.offshoreonly.com/forums/s...7&page=1&pp=20 but here is a quote from 'T2X that seems to sum up the whole splashing situation

1. If you build a fake Rolex you are not an "honest businessman"..... you are a thief.

2. If you get away with it and are not "in jail"...you are a lucky thief.......

3. If you get on a website and lash out at people who point this out............. you are defensive thief.

4. If you make it personal.....you are a nasty thief.

5. If you maintain that your Rolex is better than the original...... you are a deluded thief.

6. If people buy your Rolexes, that neither justifies nor minimizes your thievery....in fact, you pulled the wool over their eyes too.

6. Any way you look at it.....you'll always be a thief...until you take responsibility for being a thief....... and build an original watch. .... Of course if you could do that, you wouldn't have been a thief in the first place.

[Jon Fuller]

nicely put.

[Matt]

I have a question about the chaudron 33.
On the transom end of the spray rails, there is a wedge missing from the spray rails. What is this for?

[Jon Fuller]

I think you'll probably find it on the 28 'Chaudron' also.

[Matt]

Reckon so. Just wondered what it's purpose was.

[Captain Chaos]

yeh, but whats it for?

[Jon Fuller]

best ask the designer/builder!

[Captain Chaos]

I'd actually really like to know....wonder if its a water-flow into the props situation or something?

Perhaps Mr Kinfast knows or could ask? Maybe this is one of the marked improvements made to the hull?

[kiwiracer]

Here in NZ "splashing" has been rife, as you can understand with a population of about 4 million (arent we good at rugby!) the recreational boating market is not that big and therefore harder to recoup R and D costs so there have been a few instances of design stealing with the minimum 10% changes to get around the copying issues. Arent we lucky out here that our rules are based on the english system.
We have a lot to thank you poms for

Does that all make sense?

[Matt]

I'm tempted to splash a chaudron.

[Dean21]

^ thats good!!!

[bert]

Originally posted by Matt
I'm tempted to splash a chaudron.

we should start a lottery syndicate and if we win buy a chauldren 41 splash it to a 42 build out of carbon fibre couple of lambo`s call it the steve baker speical with his signature on the side race it thrash the chauldren then splash every model they build at subserdised cost to all


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