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18-05-2005, 10:34 PM
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#21
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Registered User
Location: Scotland
Interests: Hole maker
Boat make: Humber Ocean Offshore
Engines: KAD 300/DPX
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Scotland
Posts: 958
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Make sure you land head first not feet first.
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JW.
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18-05-2005, 10:36 PM
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#22
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Traveling
Country: UK
Location: Alderholt
Occupation: Aerospace
Boat name: T/T D2S
Boat make: Midas 27' Cat, Argo 16 Cat. Avon Rib Thingy
Engines: Merc 280-ROS -JSRE,65Xs, 75 Stinger, Yam 60
Cruising area: Any Seedy Bar
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Alderholt
Posts: 4,225
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Nah seriously It's like wiplash in revese if you want an idea of the feeling put ya crash hat on the get the biggest strongest feker you know to go up a stepladder then pick you up by the crash hat, but do it at about 60mph !!!!!!!
Strap cuts tighter than the thong I got bought for christmas and that made my eyes water, you can keep em girls.
My own view is run open face with a single bar if you must for protection, As for flip up helmets, leave em on the Vespas, BMW's . it what they were designed for ! just my opion.
Put on the block, I'd be wearing & open face Arai or Sipson latter is lighter
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18-05-2005, 10:37 PM
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#23
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Registered User
Country: UK
Location: Weston Super Mare
Occupation: Electrical Engineer
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Weston Super Mare
Posts: 6,351
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Silver, what intercom system is it?
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18-05-2005, 10:47 PM
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#24
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 6,891
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What do you reckon about a Moto-X type helmet that'll still give give good frontal/face protection, but is open?
Quote:
Originally posted by BluFin
Nah seriously It's like wiplash in revese if you want an idea of the feeling put ya crash hat on the get the biggest strongest feker you know to go up a stepladder then pick you up by the crash hat, but do it at about 60mph !!!!!!!
Strap cuts tighter than the thong I got bought for christmas and that made my eyes water, you can keep em girls.
My own view is run open face with a single bar if you must for protection, As for flip up helmets, leave em on the Vespas, BMW's . it what they were designed for ! just my opion.
Put on the block, I'd be wearing & open face Arai or Sipson latter is lighter
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18-05-2005, 10:48 PM
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#25
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Traveling
Country: UK
Location: Alderholt
Occupation: Aerospace
Boat name: T/T D2S
Boat make: Midas 27' Cat, Argo 16 Cat. Avon Rib Thingy
Engines: Merc 280-ROS -JSRE,65Xs, 75 Stinger, Yam 60
Cruising area: Any Seedy Bar
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Alderholt
Posts: 4,225
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That covered Bucket effect now the goldfish bowl. applies to full face with visor. Go to the sink & fill it water take a glass & fill that, lift glass from water. Notice how the water level in the glass is much higher than the sink. Same on a full face when it fills with water you will have to break the surface at the neck line or open the visor to lower the water level or it will stay full of water. Assuming you aint been concussed or sumfink.
Just me I suppose would feel a real nobba standing at the purly gates having drowned in a crash helmet !!!!!! St peter would laugh his .......................................off.
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It is impossible to lick your elbow.
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At least 75% of people who read this will try to lick their elbow!
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18-05-2005, 10:51 PM
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#26
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 6,891
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Yeh, that was my point about a Moto-X one - no visor, I thought, so it won't fill up like a bucket, or stay full like a goldfish bowl.
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18-05-2005, 10:58 PM
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#27
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Traveling
Country: UK
Location: Alderholt
Occupation: Aerospace
Boat name: T/T D2S
Boat make: Midas 27' Cat, Argo 16 Cat. Avon Rib Thingy
Engines: Merc 280-ROS -JSRE,65Xs, 75 Stinger, Yam 60
Cruising area: Any Seedy Bar
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Alderholt
Posts: 4,225
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They work fine but a lot of those that you see have detachable chin bar any how, so there really an open face in disguise. work well I can even have a smoke while wearing mine. though it get a bit risky near the filter !!!. If you want impact protecion put a single or double bar across on the chin same thing no bucket effect.
It all academic coz powerboat races by mid season have neck muscles to shame mike tyson anyhow. tip there guys buy summer shirts 1" larger for summer wear smaller for the offseason
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It is impossible to lick your elbow.
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At least 75% of people who read this will try to lick their elbow!
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18-05-2005, 11:04 PM
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#28
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Registered User
Country: United kingdom
Location: West Sussex
Occupation: Grease Monkey
Interests: Makin my boat faster!
Boat name: S.B Racing
Boat make: Ocke mannerfelt canopied B23 / Zapcat
Engines: Merc 200XS Gen 2 / Tohatsu 50
Cruising area: littlehampton/Southampton
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: West Sussex
Posts: 2,656
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silversurfer ive pm'd you!
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Class 3C Mono EPA National speed record holder 95.35 mph Avg!
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19-05-2005, 08:43 AM
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#29
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BananaShark Member
Country: UK
Location: Salcombe South Devon
Occupation: Racer and builder
Interests: Winning races
Boat name: BananaShark
Boat make: BananaShark 34' Race
Engines: Twin Yanmar BY 260's
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Salcombe South Devon
Posts: 4,638
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Stuffed a Phantom 18 at around 70 in Scotland (I wasn't driving!) and we went in perfectly straight - I was very glad I had a full face helmet on, as the water hit me from the shoulders upwards, and I'm only short! An open face would have meant being hit in the face with 70mph water, and I'm sure the water would have got in the sides of the helmet, luckily the seat stopped me going anywhere, and was just a little shaken and wet!
In my current race boat we are more (especially the navigator) prtected from a stuff, and the danger is head butting the dash - once again I don't fancy an open face in that situation either!
The chances of getting a seal around the helmet and drowning are fairly small (In my humble opinion of course!) - the chances of having a visor still attached to the helmet after a big crash arn't very big either - they always seem to be the first thing to get ripped of in an accident!
Hope that helps people make an informed decision ..............
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Cookee
British Champions! RIB Formula 1 2005
National Speed Record Holder at 90.15 (still)
www.bananasharkracing.com
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19-05-2005, 09:30 AM
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#30
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Traveling
Country: UK
Location: Alderholt
Occupation: Aerospace
Boat name: T/T D2S
Boat make: Midas 27' Cat, Argo 16 Cat. Avon Rib Thingy
Engines: Merc 280-ROS -JSRE,65Xs, 75 Stinger, Yam 60
Cruising area: Any Seedy Bar
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Alderholt
Posts: 4,225
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Exactly right everybody will have a different opinion, it's that famous old saying "Ya pay ya money you make YOUR choice"
I was happy with a full face but with goggles, then went to a xrosser helmet with goggles, then to open face for the boats, comms was slightly easier as intercomms were not so good then & you could hear the other guy ok. Dont disagree with the protection offered by full face , but as I said a single or double protection bar across the chin for open face. Funny but depending on the incident depends what you would be exposed too. Stuff thrown forward, roll you would be dragged out by the neck, flip christ knows feels like you go in all bloody directions & dont know which was up apart from the roatating view of sea, sky, sea sky,sea,sky ....................
Guess there is no perfect hemet for each case as the demands are different.
Bikewise having slid across shepards bush roundabout face down I was glad I had a full face with the extra protection thats offered.
There was a case in the last melinium where a circuit driver drowned in the lid but that ways years ago and rescue is better now.
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It is impossible to lick your elbow.
Team25Racing.com
At least 75% of people who read this will try to lick their elbow!
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19-05-2005, 09:42 AM
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#31
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 6,891
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Was his surname Blowers?
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19-05-2005, 09:59 AM
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#32
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BananaShark Member
Country: UK
Location: Salcombe South Devon
Occupation: Racer and builder
Interests: Winning races
Boat name: BananaShark
Boat make: BananaShark 34' Race
Engines: Twin Yanmar BY 260's
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Salcombe South Devon
Posts: 4,638
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The boat makes a big differance as well - side by side or tandem, and it's likeyhood of rolling / getting dragged out .............. lots to consider!
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Cookee
British Champions! RIB Formula 1 2005
National Speed Record Holder at 90.15 (still)
www.bananasharkracing.com
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19-05-2005, 01:17 PM
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#33
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Registered User
Country: United kingdom
Location: West Sussex
Occupation: Grease Monkey
Interests: Makin my boat faster!
Boat name: S.B Racing
Boat make: Ocke mannerfelt canopied B23 / Zapcat
Engines: Merc 200XS Gen 2 / Tohatsu 50
Cruising area: littlehampton/Southampton
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: West Sussex
Posts: 2,656
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mines a tandem and im gonna be in the back so hope i dont get the full brunt of it anyway!
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Class 3C Mono EPA National speed record holder 95.35 mph Avg!
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20-05-2005, 03:48 PM
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#34
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 6,891
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Just got a good reply from the MD of Gecko. A pretty honest, straight forward response I think, and interesting about the history and development of the helmet. At the end of the day it's a tool designed for a job, which it does, and I guess in a rib/workboat/rescue environment it is the obvious (perhaps only!!) choice. While not offering the same impact protection as a motorcycle style helmet, it has other advantages. I wonder if anyone has ever done an analysis of the most common causes of head/neck injury are in raceboats, and what effect the safety equipment had on either causing, or preventing, injury.
Blufin's comment is spot on - ya pays yer money and takes yer pick.
Quote:
Hello Matt
Thank you for your mail and in response please find following our comments –
Apologies if you are already aware of this, however I will start with a little brief history on how the Marine Safety Helmet came about.
Approximately 8 years ago the Naval institute of medicine (Medical side of the MOD) undertook a report on the reasons why users of RIB`s and Fast Rescue craft were receiving neck and back injuries whilst in operation, followed by recommendations to reduce these risks.
Part of the report identified that the helmets being used at that time (which were motorcycle type helmets) were too big, heavy and offered a large surface area to the bucketing effect in a man over board situation.
To that end the use of these types of helmets within the MOD for health and safety reasons was prohibited and an alternative helmet more appropriate to the needs of marine use was required.
Once this report was released, a working party consisting of the MOD, RNLI, MET Police (already users of such helmets) and B.S.I got together along with Gecko (manufacturer) and worked on a new standard for helmets being used within the marine environment.
The outcome of the working party was the need for a helmet that was to be as light and as close fitting to the user as possible to help reduce bucketing and momentum of the head, to offer full peripheral vision, able to washed out after use and dry within a reasonable time offering a hygienic solution when worn next, to be cut high at the nape of the neck to interact with a lifejacket or such and importantly offer good impact and energy absorption qualities.
The specification created based on these requirements is the PAS 028 :2002 marine safety helmets.
To answer your question straight as to whether the Gecko helmet offers the same amount of impact and energy absorption protection offered from a top end motorcycle helmet then the answer would be no.
However, we are now trying to compare two totally different helmets which have been designed for two totally different applications eg. comparing a motorcycle helmet with a push bike helmet.
In respect of our (Gecko) helmet not meeting the Motorcycle specification is the same as the motorcycle helmet not meeting the specification for marine safety helmets.
Comparisons between the two helmets based on the points I have mentioned can be detailed as follows – motorcycle helmet offers more impact and energy absorption then the Gecko. The Gecko is far lighter, smaller, interacts with existing P.P.E marine equipment, can be washed out and dried after use, has full peripheral vision over existing motorcycle helmets.
In our opinion the Gecko has been designed for use within the marine environment and is not to be used on the road, the motorcycle helmet was designed to be used on the road and not within the marine environment.
It can be acknowledged that the motorcycle helmet was perhaps the most appropriate helmet to be worn at that time as there was nothing else specifically available. Now there is then users need to consider and risk assess whether what they are currently wearing is now the correct helmet for their own application.
Hopefully the above is of some help and please drop me a line if you have any further queries.
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21-05-2005, 02:28 PM
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#35
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Aged Member
Country: UK
Location: HAMPSHIRE
Occupation: Safety Engineering
Boat name: Savannah
Boat make: Princess 415
Engines: Volvos
Cruising area: SOLENT
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: HAMPSHIRE
Posts: 779
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Personally I've been using a Simpson Bandit helmet for the last 4 years, and although it is a bit on the heavy side I prefer it to any other because of the thickness of the visor, and the the size of the opening. Visors have been known to buckle in under the water pressure during a good stuff.
Had it made ( in a batch with some other racers) in orange so it didn't need painting.
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Land was invented to give boats somewhere to visit
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21-05-2005, 06:43 PM
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#36
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Registered User
Country: England
Location: Crayford, Kent.
Occupation: Electrical gezza!
Interests: Petrolhead
Boat name: Wayne Kerr
Boat make: Phantom xl
Engines: Mercury 2.5, 200(ish)
Cruising area: Essex, Hampshire, Mediterranean
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Crayford, Kent.
Posts: 1,199
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Gecko Helmets
Cookee, did I read somewhere that your at Torquay next weekend?
If you are, would you mind showing me your helmet !!!!!!!!!!! "Gecko" (before the insults start) !!!!!
I've read Matt's input & it looks like the way to go.
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22-05-2005, 10:19 AM
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#37
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BananaShark Member
Country: UK
Location: Salcombe South Devon
Occupation: Racer and builder
Interests: Winning races
Boat name: BananaShark
Boat make: BananaShark 34' Race
Engines: Twin Yanmar BY 260's
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Salcombe South Devon
Posts: 4,638
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Wayne - of course I'll show you my Gecko! We'll probably be down on the quay rather than up on the car park as the boat will be on a 20 ton Volvo, however we are bringing the new leisure version of the race boat, so that might be up there or on the water, so best call me - 07836 268747 - I'll publish the programme as soon as I get the scanner working for everyone!
__________________
Cookee
British Champions! RIB Formula 1 2005
National Speed Record Holder at 90.15 (still)
www.bananasharkracing.com
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22-05-2005, 12:59 PM
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#38
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Registered User
Country: England
Location: Crayford, Kent.
Occupation: Electrical gezza!
Interests: Petrolhead
Boat name: Wayne Kerr
Boat make: Phantom xl
Engines: Mercury 2.5, 200(ish)
Cruising area: Essex, Hampshire, Mediterranean
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Crayford, Kent.
Posts: 1,199
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Gecko
Cookee, good man.
I'll be on Haldon Pier with A8 Obession (OCR).
I'll try to keep the Boatmad.com T shirt clean for reconnaissance
purposes, the red thong hurts when it's hot!
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22-05-2005, 08:22 PM
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#39
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 6,891
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If anyone is after a gecko - I'm pretty sure adam has some in stock and is doing a bit of a special offer on them.
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23-05-2005, 09:49 AM
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#40
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Registered User
Country: UK
Location: Thorpe Bay
Occupation: IT Director, www.lighthouseit.co.uk
Interests: Boats, Surfing & Snowboarding
Boat name: Isabella / Cool Runnings II / Bella / Sea Pup / Sea Dog / Speedy II / Bernico F3
Boat make: Colvic 35 Suncruiser / Bernico F3 / Phantom 16 / Zodiac 420 YL / RIB / Apollo 9
Engines: 2 x Perkins Sabre 225ti / Mercury Pro XS /Mercury Pro XS 115/ Tohatsu 2.5 / Mercury 25 / Mercury 50
Cruising area: Thames Estuary / River Crouch / Salcombe
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Thorpe Bay
Posts: 932
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Quote:
Originally posted by Burty
Silver, what intercom system is it?
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Maplin "Chatterbox" £19.99
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Loving the Spitfire with a 25HP Mercury
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