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Old 11-01-2013, 10:27 PM   #1
pcm
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Speeding/Lymington

just been notified of prosecution for speeding in lymington river, date of offence 22 july 2012, summons appears on my doorstep 10 january 2013. WTF....
the area in question where i opened the boat up was beyond the outbound red channel markers and heading west towards hurst l/house. mark in question was post 6, 3 or 4 posts short of jack in the basket which is the clear water mark
this is something i have done at h/water on numerous occasions without incident.
on return to the river entrance from the eastern approach, i was approached by harbour masters rib and asked to proceed to the harbour masters pontoon, where i was informed of my infringement of lymingtons harbour by-laws, after stating that i was actually outside of the channel marks when we got underway, i was informed by said hm that i was inside the river when i committed the offence and even if i was outside the posts i was still under his jurisdiction, a fact i was totally unaware of.
hm has produced in evidence against me a copy of chart where his power to enforce speed limits is marked with a pencilled in line.
this so-called enforced area is not marked on any chart admiralty or imray i can find
im quite aware a 6kt limit exist in the rivers approach's and due to the amount of attention the voodoo boat creates i make sure that all regs are adhered to before getting into clear water and getting underway.
apparentally our wash drew his attention to us,considering after checking positions of initial sightings marked on his evidence chart he was 1.1km away he must have f*****g exceptional eyesight.
so fellow boaters if you look a bit different or fast please take care when in lymington

if anyone has any advice to offer its greatfully accepted and needed desperately as the court appearance is the 31st jan
PETE
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Old 11-01-2013, 11:30 PM   #2
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Here's some interesting reading

http://www.rib.net/forum/f8/speeding...ive-46329.html
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Old 11-01-2013, 11:55 PM   #3
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Unfortunately the harbour master bye laws seem to be there to read but not to follow by the harbour master. They clearly state that enforcement of the bye laws is seen as a last resort after other avenues have failed and that every effort should be made, presumably for the benefit of both parties, to issue any written correspondence as soon as possible. This is therefore in direct contravention of their own stated bye laws.

In the last year I too have been subject to unnecessary 'attention' for going up the river in a powerboat. Those enforcing the waters clearly have very little understanding about the angle powerboat rides at when underway at 6 - 10 knots.

Last year I was also victimised by a harbour patrol vessel in lymington shepherding a group of two man sailing vessels which the harbour patrol intentionally waited until a group of power boaters were making there way up the river before allowing 20 to 30 sailing boats to cross the channel causing us to veer sharply left and right. Perhaps a similar claim should be made against the harbour master for not properly enforcing the bye laws with respect to sailing craft.
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Old 12-01-2013, 11:31 AM   #4
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Just read through harbour by laws and buried in at the bottom is the charted extremities of jurisdiction.
this is the first time ive had a look at any harbours by-laws, OK so i'm guilty of infringing the by-laws by getting underway in an area i now know to come within hmo's limits.
What i object to is the time between offence and prosecution, also the written statements of evidence to be used against me, which i will not divulge here until after the court hearing. if you use lymington please find below a link to the bylaws. the charted area is at the bottom. might be usefull if chart makers included it, especially in the small boat solent portfolio set.
over the years i've learnt that you cannot argue with authority,
the solicitors bill will be probably higher than the fine, the only reason i'm having one is that ido not agree with the evidential statements
this matter could of been dealt with a caution, infact after my telling off on the pontoon all rules and regs have since been complied with , without incident. Other than constant scrutiny by hmo's operatives, perhaps i'll stick the boat in and follow them all w/end.
i dont recall the owner of a moth dinghy who pulled upto the slip under full sail 15kts+ in the 4kts area being bollocked(even i had to admit it looked 'kin impressive tho').
the old days of the friendly hmo office in lymington have sadly passed.
so be warned

http://www.lymingtonharbour.co.uk/Byelaws/byelaws.htm
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Old 12-01-2013, 12:23 PM   #5
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pisses me off,that sailers are allowed to break the speed limit,something in the bye law again. we have loads of dinghy racing in chichester harbour,and they are a law unto themselves
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Old 12-01-2013, 12:33 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl View Post
pisses me off,that sailers are allowed to break the speed limit,something in the bye law again. we have loads of dinghy racing in chichester harbour,and they are a law unto themselves

To be honest, general pilotage in chichester harbour is the worst i have ever seen. Its the only channel in the world that does not appear to have a starboard side in or out.
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Old 12-01-2013, 04:41 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl View Post
pisses me off,that sailers are allowed to break the speed limit,something in the bye law again. we have loads of dinghy racing in chichester harbour,and they are a law unto themselves
i will second that,didnt like it when i dobbed the patrol in for fishing in the area of sparkes with a spear gun for mullet whilst on duty.---- em
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Old 12-01-2013, 04:53 PM   #8
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if anyone has any advice to offer its greatfully accepted and needed desperately as the court appearance is the 31st jan
PETE
Voodoo Performance Craft
Sadly no mate.i do know any objection you do have need to be based on fact.
The days of discretion or common sence have long since gone.
you cant use the fact that sailing boys get away with it as its not relevent to your case.
You and others can of course lodge your objections on any matters you feel are justified and if you should need to follow patrols to satisfy your concerns with a video to obtain evidence i cant see a problem with that.they will though.in London we have groups doing just that to fight the crap our local councils are dealing out.Best of luck mate,see if the secretary of state has any statuary guidelines to Harbour masters on the subject,if discretion is
advised and you think it wasnt then that could be a fact.keep us informed.
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Old 12-01-2013, 07:24 PM   #9
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Last time the chi harbour master caught me (one and only time) and I got one of those letters, I just wrote back saying sorry and promised not to do it again. Also noted that no other harbour users were nearby, conditions clear, calm and so forth - ie that I wasn't being a "danger". Nothing more heard.
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Old 15-01-2013, 11:13 AM   #10
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How can they prove speed?
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Old 15-01-2013, 01:11 PM   #11
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yes how can they prove speed!!!
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Old 15-01-2013, 02:00 PM   #12
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If indeed any objection you do have need to be based on fact. Then surely their (alleged) case against you would have to made on the same basis?

Also given the distances involved when you were spotted 'breaking the rules', this would make any accurate measurement (if they had speed gun etc) unreliable?

I would also question the length of time to bring the prosecution, isn't there a time limit as in a speeding offence on the public highway?

Bear in mind, I know nothing about nothing, JMHO.
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Old 15-01-2013, 07:32 PM   #13
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Quote:
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yes how can they prove speed!!!
I know in Salcombe the Harbour Master sometimes uses a speed gun

http://www.thisissouthdevon.co.uk/Sp...ail/story.html
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Old 15-01-2013, 08:07 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonny h View Post
I know in Salcombe the Harbour Master sometimes uses a speed gun

http://www.thisissouthdevon.co.uk/Sp...ail/story.html
The Harbour master has such a cheery warm glow about him doesn't he
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Old 15-01-2013, 08:12 PM   #15
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"Boatwatch Co-ordinator Ian Drinkwater and a fellow volunteer Graham Smith, who were both up under the cuddy at the bow of the boat at the time."

Hmmmmnnnn.
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Old 15-01-2013, 11:35 PM   #16
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I wonder how often that gun is calabrated, I thought the police had them done daily.
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Old 16-01-2013, 10:36 AM   #17
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as far as i know (been down this route recently) the FEDS do have them checked daily, then they are issued with a printout that goes on the gun with a refrence number on it.... however how can you prove that has been done correctly if at all (not being to cynical)...
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Old 16-01-2013, 01:50 PM   #18
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the proof of speed being offered as evidence against me is his so called expertise in judging speed of a craft whilst underway.
no camera evidence, or speed guns used.
his word against mine,
what i have a problem with is his statement as to my position of where the offence was committed.
no caution issued
no letter of intent to prosecute issued
1st offence
WTF
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Old 16-01-2013, 02:01 PM   #19
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How does he know it was you driving the boat ? and that the boat had not been loaned out or taken for a test drive ?.
Has he got proof of you in the drivers seat ?
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Old 16-01-2013, 06:31 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pcm View Post
the proof of speed being offered as evidence against me is his so called expertise in judging speed of a craft whilst underway.
no camera evidence, or speed guns used.
his word against mine,
what i have a problem with is his statement as to my position of where the offence was committed.
no caution issued
no letter of intent to prosecute issued
1st offence
WTF
That wouldn't stand up in a court of law,for a prosacution you need hard evidence,pic,video ect.
He having a laugh,
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