Splashing - Page 2

Jon Fuller · 22-10-2009, 08:16 PM

The base materials for the plug/mould aren't too bad. the CSM is regular stuff, just the mould resin & gel are specific. Low shrink resin for mould stability and engineering gel (harder wearing) It's all man hours, mainly in the plug stage, that's where the dosh goes.

Jon Fuller · 22-10-2009, 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by motorvator

So equivalent petrol power with similar rigging say £15k cheaper than diesel but I guess still wouldn't fit even with the ITS gear?

Not sure what you mean.

yeah, mebbe 15k cheaper, small blocks (or big) would fit easily in the stagger formation.
Could use regular external steering, but would be tight (like my 28) Could have the rams tween the drives (inboard) but that looks shite!

motorvator · 22-10-2009, 08:51 PM

Yeah sorry John I was imagining that V8s and exhausts would be too wide but of course that's what you run in the 28.

Jon Fuller · 22-10-2009, 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by motorvator

Yeah sorry John I was imagining that V8s and exhausts would be too wide but of course that's what you run in the 28.

Yeah.
Wider than std SB but not quite as wide as a std BB

motorvator · 22-10-2009, 09:00 PM

So costwise it boils down to how much you charge an hour

I get the gist but still what do you think a builder would charge, assuming you have a plug ready to go, to produce a mould and run one out. For arguments sake of a similar size to Warlord?

motorvator · 22-10-2009, 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jon Fuller

Yeah.
Wider than std SB but not quite as wide as a std BB

Loadsa room

Jon Fuller · 22-10-2009, 09:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by motorvator

So costwise it boils down to how much you charge an hour

I get the gist but still what do you think a builder would charge, assuming you have a plug ready to go, to produce a mould and run one out. For arguments sake of a similar size to Warlord?

I can't speak for builders, but built to the spec we did (lots of balsa, basically pretty much every square inch of Swipes is either 1/4", 1/2" or 1" Balsa-Aramat sandwich) with one piece Douglas Fir longits (4 + Hog)) I'd expect a decent builder to want well upwards of 15K labour only to lay up, inc structures and hull/deck join. add another 10K for materials, and some more for sundries.

I would expect 30k plus vat actual cost to me to build another, then a wee royalty payment (only right) then some more to claw back some development investment, then some more for any comeback you might experience. number soon gets big

But of course u need a mould. Don't underestimate the amount of work it is to get a boat to the point you can call it a plug (assuming you want it good) in terms of straightness (dynamically and appearence)

boat · 22-10-2009, 09:30 PM

are you talking around £ 45,000 - £ 50,000 for a hull and deck fitted with upholstery and fuel tank? then you wouldn't be that much more expensive from what C******* charge for their 33 model.

motorvator · 22-10-2009, 09:36 PM

Certainly wouldn't underestimate it. And certainly understand the need to recover development costs etc and profit is not a dirty word either.

The bit I was trying to get my head round is what level of risk a designer is going to when he pushes the button on his latest race winning design when the reality is that until it hits the water he won't know whether he has built that winner or not.

In terms of the thread it's that bit which makes the morals of the splashing argument suspect to say the least.

motorvator · 22-10-2009, 09:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boat

are you talking around £ 45,000 - £ 50,000 for a hull and deck fitted with upholstery and fuel tank? then you wouldn't be that much more expensive from what C******* charge for their 33 model.

I think you might be comparing perfectly poached eggs with bananas

Jon Fuller · 22-10-2009, 09:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by motorvator

In terms of the thread it's that bit which makes the morals of the splashing argument suspect to say the least.

F*CK ME! Someone who understands! better have him stuffed.

motorvator · 22-10-2009, 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jon Fuller

F*CK ME! Someone who understands! better have him stuffed.

Easy I'm not another Chaos you know and anyway I don't find strawberry blonde that attractive.

boat · 23-10-2009, 08:34 PM

the Phantom 32 is one of the nicest boats in my opinion - a classic style combined with beautiful lines. what would the estimated performance be with twin 300 outboards, not Verados because i don't think they are not the best engine on this type of boat but Optimax 300xs or even perhaps the 250 E-tec HO's.

Jon Fuller · 24-10-2009, 01:48 AM

I'd be guestimating a bit, but the 300XS's are I think just over 300 propshaft hp, so would like to think 80ish (mph) the 250HO is I think 275 propshaft hp, so mid to upper 70's (mph).

Our 32 is relatively heavy with the diesel setup, about 2600kg's. the motors are estimated at 260 crankshaft hp, so about 235 propshaft hp. it runs an honest 62mph.

It's a bit late to be doing the levi formula now, but I might do it tomorrow and see if the figures tally with my guess.

Adam · 24-10-2009, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by motorvator

The bit I was trying to get my head round is what level of risk a designer is going to when he pushes the button on his latest race winning design when the reality is that until it hits the water he won't know whether he has built that winner or not.

No simple answer - as so many different concepts - for example we have low risk projects and high risk concepts.

Overall I would say accuracy of your data, understanding it and how you use it is key. So the more designs you have done and the better your data from those craft then the more accurate you can be with your predictions and new work. The further you break away from your proven work the greater faith you have to have in your theory and ways of proving / developing that theory. Also the greater potentail for larger gains.

All the above really goes into why splashing is not designing and splashers are not designers. But there are of course big financial savings to be made by splashing boats - although it is always going to be a case of not having the latest ideas / features / details.

peterunwin · 24-10-2009, 06:35 PM

Hi John,
Wondered if you could run a couple of calculations through your levi formula? the current Cheetah has approximately 156 hp per ton & achieves a two way average speed of just over 60 knots. Actual hull length minus swim platform is 35 ft 6 inches.
The new project of Carbon Cheetah has 1450 hp weighs 3.7 tons giving a power to weight ratio of 390 hp per ton. Actual hull length 37 ft 6 inches minus swim platform, Speed Unknown!!.
Schwipes has a power to weight ratio of 200 hp per ton speed 62 m.p.h. boat length 32 ft.
It will be interesting to see what the levy formula comes out at because in other forms of motor sport i have been involved with, provided the power has been used effectively the best power to weight ratio is usually fastest? or am i missing something fundamental??
OOPS!!! sorry about the spelling of swipe wipes after a couple of glasses of vino anything goes must be the bubbles! try saying it fast after a fewmore!!