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15-07-2009, 09:59 AM
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#1
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Registered User
Country: england
Location: southampton
Occupation: engineer
Interests: lots
Boat make: scorpion 8.1
Engines: 250HO
Cruising area: solent
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: southampton
Posts: 1,353
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sunseeker hawk, tomahawk etc
I appreciate there is a size difference, but whats the difference in terms of hull and ride/performance between a hawk, a superhawk and a tomahawk.... Someone told me one of them was very cruisy and tended to be overdriven and break as a result....
Whats the difference between a tomahawk mk1 and mk2??? looking at sizes between 29-37ft
Thanks
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15-07-2009, 01:50 PM
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#2
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BananaShark Member
Country: UK
Location: Salcombe South Devon
Occupation: Racer and builder
Interests: Winning races
Boat name: BananaShark
Boat make: BananaShark 34' Race
Engines: Twin Yanmar BY 260's
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Salcombe South Devon
Posts: 4,638
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glen76
I appreciate there is a size difference, but whats the difference in terms of hull and ride/performance between a hawk, a superhawk and a tomahawk.... Someone told me one of them was very cruisy and tended to be overdriven and break as a result....
Whats the difference between a tomahawk mk1 and mk2??? looking at sizes between 29-37ft
Thanks
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Tomahawk Mark II had a different transom and they changed the seating arrangements - I was thinking of going for an early one for historic Endurance racing, but was told they could be a bit fragile for racing - renewing the motors wouldn't make it worth anything like the investment either and old ones with good updated diesels are expensive!
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Cookee
British Champions! RIB Formula 1 2005
National Speed Record Holder at 90.15 (still)
www.bananasharkracing.com
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15-07-2009, 10:00 PM
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#3
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Registered User
Country: england
Location: southampton
Occupation: engineer
Interests: lots
Boat make: scorpion 8.1
Engines: 250HO
Cruising area: solent
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: southampton
Posts: 1,353
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cookee
Tomahawk Mark II had a different transom and they changed the seating arrangements - I was thinking of going for an early one for historic Endurance racing, but was told they could be a bit fragile for racing - renewing the motors wouldn't make it worth anything like the investment either and old ones with good updated diesels are expensive!
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so is it the tomahawks that delaminate in the front?? Does anyone know for sure?? Ive been assured they were built for cruising only but i always considered them a bomb proof brand!!
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16-07-2009, 08:20 AM
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#4
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BananaShark Member
Country: UK
Location: Salcombe South Devon
Occupation: Racer and builder
Interests: Winning races
Boat name: BananaShark
Boat make: BananaShark 34' Race
Engines: Twin Yanmar BY 260's
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Salcombe South Devon
Posts: 4,638
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glen76
so is it the tomahawks that delaminate in the front?? Does anyone know for sure?? Ive been assured they were built for cruising only but i always considered them a bomb proof brand!!
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I have no idea on the specifics, but there are still quite a few around from the old days, so I reckon they're ok if you don't race them!
__________________
Cookee
British Champions! RIB Formula 1 2005
National Speed Record Holder at 90.15 (still)
www.bananasharkracing.com
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16-07-2009, 11:32 AM
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#5
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Engine tester
Country: united kingdom
Location: Southend on Sea
Occupation: Construction
Interests: Gin & Women
Boat name: motorvator
Boat make: Revenger San Marino / Sunseeker Camargue 46 / Phantom 18/19/600
Engines: 502 mercruiser / Detroit 550s / 115 ProXS / Anything Borrowed
Cruising area: Thames, Southend
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Southend on Sea
Posts: 1,021
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You have to remember how the market developed.
The first deep vees were the early eighties offshore 28 and 31 followed by the mid eighties XPS34 which were designed as fast offshore cruisers with accommodation built around what was left.
This to me means that when you look around the internals of my XPS it is quite obvious that you are looking at a Don Shead design that has then had bits bolted to it to make it a cruiser. The Hawks and Portofinos are the next step on from there where things obviously start to be driven by market demands of walkthrough transoms, under sole accommodation, etc which means a compromise has been made somewhere with bulkhead positions and such.
The more you add internally for comfort then the more you have to save elsewhere to keep weight in the realms of sensibility. More room taken as accommodation then the less room for engine rooms etc.
More weight above the waterline then the higher the centre of gravity and hence a compromise on handling.
Sunseeker are about the only company that stayed true to a high performing hull form as a priority and therefore don't carry similar internal volumes and hence accommodation as their competitors.
'tis the reason that something like a Doral at the other end of the spectrum will never be a good sea boat as they are almost designed from the inside out as though someone has shown a hull designer an internal layout and then he has to wrap a hull form around it.
Fragile? Well I bet most people here with an eighties boat with over 2000 hours on it would like the lack of stress cracking that my XPS displays.
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"Lend us a motor Chaos"
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16-07-2009, 11:52 AM
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#6
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Moderator
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,041
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Sunseeker Boats
For what it`s worth, one of the few people to smash a sunseeker up was good ol Richard Carr,who would take great delight in hammering a boat to death.I`ve always thought if you keep within the manufacturers recommended max hp for a particular model you should be OK,after all that`s the guidelines the boat is stressed for.If you fit larger engines outside of this then it`s got to be reappraised.When you think Sunseeker have their own team of trials skippers since way back when,if a boat was not up to the spec,they would soon have found the problems.If I was about to spend good money on a Sunseeker boat I would go and talk to the trials drivers.A good opening to do this would be to phone Sunseeker and ask for Ewen Foster (head of the design office),and he could put you on the right lines,I should know,I trained him up at Don Sheads when he first came to us in 1984.
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16-07-2009, 01:52 PM
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#7
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BananaShark Member
Country: UK
Location: Salcombe South Devon
Occupation: Racer and builder
Interests: Winning races
Boat name: BananaShark
Boat make: BananaShark 34' Race
Engines: Twin Yanmar BY 260's
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Salcombe South Devon
Posts: 4,638
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FLYING FISH
For what it`s worth, one of the few people to smash a sunseeker up was good ol Richard Carr,who would take great delight in hammering a boat to death.
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I knew about the Baja that got the Carr treatment - which model of Sunseeker was it that he smashed?
__________________
Cookee
British Champions! RIB Formula 1 2005
National Speed Record Holder at 90.15 (still)
www.bananasharkracing.com
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16-07-2009, 02:37 PM
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#8
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 513
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Cobra and Superhawk
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16-07-2009, 03:11 PM
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#9
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Moderator
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,041
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Carr Demolition
So long ago I can`t recall which model he wrecked.Probably a `Shitehawk`.
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18-07-2009, 10:06 AM
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#10
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Registered User
Country: UK
Location: London
Boat name: Athito
Boat make: Sunseeker Superhawk 34
Engines: 2x300hp Yanmar 6LP
Cruising area: Solent
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: London
Posts: 149
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Tomahawk Mk1 and Mk2 differences included a better electrical layout, different cockpit seating and instrument panel and slight changes to the heads.
Largely cosmetic but if you can afford the Mk2 then go for it...better.
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