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Old 17-01-2006, 10:23 PM   #301
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Quote:
Originally posted by Speed
I've been in seas you could only dream about.
Well it has to be a Bad dream then...

I found SoFla to be quite nice also the Missisippi and Ohio Rivers plus recently the North Sea and eastern Atlantic.
The Mediterrainian aint that bad either nor the North African coast
The Med can kick up some good waves too would you believe.... (Read like 10 ft normally)
*from personal experience.

The nicest regarding challenging has to be North Sea for me.
*For your knowledge Ive been competing in sailboats since 1977 and nowadays Im the second skipper in a REAL offshore boat, one with a keel that is.

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Old 17-01-2006, 10:34 PM   #302
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Nice 36 Pantera!
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Old 17-01-2006, 10:34 PM   #303
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jon Fuller
Very nice, although as I said in another thread, a huge percentage of the US offshore fleet, seems to derive from one basic hull/running surface, that is, the Jim Wynne/Walt Walters Cary/Cigarette.

As I also said in another thread, walking along the dry storage racking at Fort Apache a few years back, it was astonishing just how many 30' and up Yanky monos appear to have the same running surface/topsides, and even have the same wee fault in the st/bd upper spray rail, just a liitle 'turn down' of the last 6 inches or so, but a berth mark none the less, showing the origin of the multitude of manufacturers there.

We looked at the 36 Pantera 'Fair & White' when it was here with the P1 fleet in 2004, it has the very same berth mark!

In fact Tony Davis on this forum, supplied that team with a replacement Bravo gimble assy whilst they were here, as they bust one in the first very rough race at Brighton....I'll post a couple of pics for Ed & co.

It begs the question, just how many boats are in existance around the globe, that derive from that first 'plug'? quite amazing.

jf

Whoa..hold on a little...youre suggesting that Aronow was the greatest splasher of them all then?
Im always wondered howcome the 24 degree V has become a standard as the Scandinavian powerboats usually have a sharper one.
Smuggler (Swedish),Flying Flipper (Finnish),Argo (Finnish) all have 28s..
How is it with Brits Jon?

Now this is an interesting topic.

I sure can state that Aronow splashed his creations himself from day one by looking at his creations but so does Scarabs have quite a striking resemblance to Cigs.
Even the kink on the side off the Hull is on the same spot on a 38 TG/38KV...
Now does this all also go with Apaches as the 41 was Aronows last "creation"?

Then I REALLY hope that the Thad Allens "New Apache" will continue as its at least straightened hull as the mold plug was made with a big CNC-mill at least and thus quite accurate.

Howabout Nor-Tech then?
They did start out as High-Tech in Norway with their 1.edition with got proven in court to be a splash of a 38 TG.
But these new ones look like own creations.
Saber Marine does not even try to hide what the do and somehow Im glad for that...at least they are outright oldschool boats and hope their build quality is top notch.

And are the Step Bottoms splashes of each other then also??
They sure do look at lot different nowadays from each other?
Not that I really care a snot of them.
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Old 17-01-2006, 10:45 PM   #304
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As I truely believe the American market in the 70's, 80's, 90's to be made up of mainly Cig originated hulls, and the Apache 41 came from Aronow, surely there's no doubt it's a Cig.
I read somewhere it was a stretched 39 Cig hull, but as stated above, they're all the fkkn same anyway, so which particular model of Cig is virtually irrelevant.

It's interesting reading tho' that the Squadron listed for sale, has wider spray rails than a regular Cig. mebbe they're not all exactly the same!

I agree, the Scarabs look mighty familiar in the fwd spray rail area.

American boats from that era that are definitely 'unique'...lets start.

Sutphen

Fountain (not certain on this one, seem to remember reading that it's a recycled something)

Bertram

Velocity

....................
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Old 17-01-2006, 10:47 PM   #305
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I have first hand seen the particular defect in the spray rail in a shocking number of boats at large no. of bnoats in Miami last feb.
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Old 17-01-2006, 11:18 PM   #306
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jon Fuller
As I truely believe the American market in the 70's, 80's, 90's to be made up of mainly Cig originated hulls, and the Apache 41 came from Aronow, surely there's no doubt it's a Cig.
I read somewhere it was a stretched 39 Cig hull, but as stated above, they're all the fkkn same anyway, so which particular model of Cig is virtually irrelevant.

It's interesting reading tho' that the Squadron listed for sale, has wider spray rails than a regular Cig. mebbe they're not all exactly the same!

I agree, the Scarabs look mighty familiar in the fwd spray rail area.

American boats from that era that are definitely 'unique'...lets start.

Sutphen

Fountain

Bertram

....................
Well according to sources when Aronow closed the sale of Cig he took the 39 molds with him.
And the Squadron is a 1:1 to a Cig 39 excpet some statements they are wider would need to measure them in person to be sure.

But I have to disagree on the Bertram 38.....Me thinks it look familiar.
I might even call it made by some other and supervised by Aronow.

Otherwise yes.

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Old 17-01-2006, 11:58 PM   #307
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Na, I disagree, if you look at the Bertram, it has it's spray rails parralel to the centreline, just like a Cougar, or Don Shead design.

I think the Bertrams were a Ray Hunt design.

The Cigs have a spray rail design quite different. They don't sweep up, staying parralel to the keel like a Bertram.

I did some drawings recently, to explain this exact same thing in the design of the British 'Ring', 'Shead', and Phantom.

I'll go find them, it'll make it easier to explain what I mean.
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Old 18-01-2006, 12:08 AM   #308
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Right, here we go.

This is a clasic horizontal rail design, the rails stay substantially horizontal, curling round the bow to stay on that 'plane'

This is how I see a 'Cig', although this drawing was done to describe a 'Mike Ring design, so not exactly as a Cig is.



This is the mid ways design, used in the Phantom I have: (I believe this to be the most 'neutral')




And here's the style used by Bertram, Cougar, Don Shead etc.: See how the rails remain parallel to the keel.




see what I mean?
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Old 18-01-2006, 12:13 AM   #309
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Quote:
Originally posted by MikeyFIN
Well it has to be a Bad dream then...

I found SoFla to be quite nice also the Missisippi and Ohio Rivers plus recently the North Sea and eastern Atlantic.
The Mediterrainian aint that bad either nor the North African coast
The Med can kick up some good waves too would you believe.... (Read like 10 ft normally)
*from personal experience.

The nicest regarding challenging has to be North Sea for me.
*For your knowledge Ive been competing in sailboats since 1977 and nowadays Im the second skipper in a REAL offshore boat, one with a keel that is.

Cute. I have been on aircraft carriers in hurricanes, not to mention the north atlantic, the med and seas all over the globe.

I also used to sail, matter of fact I was in the San Fransisco bay and the Pacific in a 36 ft Hunter two months ago, I much prefer powerboats.

BTW: We get hurricanes here in Virginia which kick up some good sized seas.
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Old 18-01-2006, 12:17 AM   #310
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Quote:
Originally posted by Speed
BTW: We get hurricanes here in Virginia which kick up some good sized seas.
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Old 18-01-2006, 12:52 AM   #311
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North Sea!!!
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Old 18-01-2006, 02:10 AM   #312
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Quote:
Originally posted by Johnny Boat Dude
North Sea!!!
Holy Hell!
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Old 18-01-2006, 02:26 AM   #313
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probably 60 foot or more!

but irelevant really, coz who the fkk would go out in that in a high perf boat!
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Old 18-01-2006, 02:34 AM   #314
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jon Fuller
probably 60 foot or more!

but irelevant really, coz who the fkk would go out in that in a high perf boat!
Only the most Fearless!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 18-01-2006, 02:37 AM   #315
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You'd need some fkkn serious Lycra for those conditions! (reckon you'd need ya boxer shorts made of it)
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Old 18-01-2006, 02:39 AM   #316
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Hey Comanche, you see your fellow countrymen have been flamin my azz again!...chit!

http://www.boatmad.com/forum/showthr...&threadid=4693
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Old 18-01-2006, 02:45 AM   #317
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jon Fuller
Hey Comanche, you see your fellow countrymen have been flamin my azz again!...chit!

http://www.boatmad.com/forum/showthr...&threadid=4693
Screw Em'
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Old 18-01-2006, 02:47 AM   #318
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Quote:
Originally posted by Comanche3Six
Screw Em'
Yeah, it does seem that whole of the continental USA wanna kill me over that video tho'!

A hot headed lot.
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Old 18-01-2006, 05:59 AM   #319
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Quote:
Originally posted by Johnny Boat Dude



North Sea!!!
"Small water boat", not a Mcmanus boat ...
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Old 18-01-2006, 11:37 AM   #320
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jon Fuller
Right, here we go.

This is a clasic horizontal rail design, the rails stay substantially horizontal, curling round the bow to stay on that 'plane'

This is how I see a 'Cig', although this drawing was done to describe a 'Mike Ring design, so not exactly as a Cig is.



This is the mid ways design, used in the Phantom I have: (I believe this to be the most 'neutral')




And here's the style used by Bertram, Cougar, Don Shead etc.: See how the rails remain parallel to the keel.




see what I mean?
Yes quite clearly now...Finns seem to prefer the midways design.
Probably because it keeps a small boat dryer and more above the waves.?
Also has in my opinion a bit rougher ride too?
At least our own does, which is a 2tn 26 footer at 47 knots.
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