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Old 01-01-2006, 03:51 PM   #161
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Is Kramer definitely responsible for Aronow's murder?

I take it you've read the relevant books
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Old 01-01-2006, 04:08 PM   #162
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jon Fuller
Is Kramer definitely responsible for Aronow's murder?

I take it you've read the relevant books
http://secure.offshoreonly.com/movie...onowStory.html


When charged with the murder he plead "No Contest"
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Old 01-01-2006, 04:21 PM   #163
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Re: US boat builders ??

Quote:
Originally posted by Admiral P. Brain
think this question aimed at our US friends got lost on a previous site....


Which is the toughest built, best riding rough water hull your side of the pond??
In the 24-36ft range, new or old...
Cigarette, sonic, warlock, pantera, formula, apache, fountain, sunsation, active thunder, DCB ??
At the 24' end of the spectrum is the Cigarette Firefox. I can not speak for the build quality of the newer Cigarettes, But 18 years ago they where old school heavy duty roughwater powerboats. This boat does not have a single stress crack.
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Old 01-01-2006, 04:24 PM   #164
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Great in the roughwater and tough!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 01-01-2006, 06:53 PM   #165
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That looks very nice!

What power, what speed?
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Old 01-01-2006, 07:18 PM   #166
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jon Fuller
That looks very nice!

What power, what speed?
522ci supercharged BBC
#3 SSM
82mph

I feel both the 24' Cigarette and 36' Comanche meet the criteria of the question asked

Quote:
Originally posted by Admiral P. Brain
think this question aimed at our US friends got lost on a previous site....
Which is the toughest built, best riding rough water hull your side of the pond??
In the 24-36ft range, new or old...
No, they would not be competitive in today's inshore small water racing.
Yes, they are heavy duty non step V bottoms and it takes a lot of power to push them.
Yes, they are of extreme high build quality, built for rough water use, and give the best rough water ride without extreme hull failure like a cheap azz dime a dozen Fountain.
Yes, I own them both and that is my Neanderthal opinion.

Happy New Year

Ed
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Old 01-01-2006, 07:44 PM   #167
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Quote:
Originally posted by Comanche3Six
No, they would not be competitive in today's inshore small water racing.
Yes, they are heavy duty non step V bottoms and it takes a lot of power to push them.
Yes, they are of extreme high build quality, built for rough water use, and give the best rough water ride without extreme hull failure like a cheap azz dime a dozen Fountain.
Yes, I own them both and that is my Neanderthal opinion.

Happy New Year

Ed
That's as funny as fkk
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Old 01-01-2006, 08:35 PM   #168
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Quote:
Originally posted by Comanche3Six
Speed
I can post pictures of broken Fountains all day. Post one of a McManus built Apache that broke like this Fountain due to wave damage. And the reason those other boats are in the trees and pilings and on the rocks shows a handleing problem. That is why Mark Mcmanus will not build step hulls, he feels they are dangerous. Remember McManus built, not Saccenti.
This is some severe damage for just rough water.
The reason you can post pictures of Fountains all day is they produce over 500 boats a year! How many Apaches are built a year? How many Apaches are out there? 100-125 total?

So lets take an average, if Fountain built only three hundred boats a year for 15 years thats almost 5000 boats. That's a ration of 5000-125 or 40-1! So mathamatically you should be able to at least come up with 40 broken Fountains to every broken Apache. I already posted one Apache that came apart in a little poker run! It was twisted, rolled and delamenated, all in flat water! Looks like you are also behind in numbers.

I would also add the picture you posted looks to be a race boat and what was that boat subjected to before it busted? What caused the boat to bust? Race boats are subjected to far more strain and stress than pleasure boats.

As far as the Fountains in trees and rocks you claim it was the step bottom that caused those accidents? How in the hell do you know that? Where you there? Prove it! It's nothing but CONJECTURE on your part. I also don't care what you are driving only a clown would be driving fast enough to stuff a boat near shore or into the trees.

As far as steps, everybody knows steps are more difficult to drive than a non step. There are trade offs. If steps are so dangerous why are 90% of all the boat builders do it? People don't know how to drive them just ask Tres Martin.

Mark Mcmanus doesn't build RACE BOATS he builds pleasure boats! His old 80's technology, over weight sleds would get crushed in the Offshore curcuit.

"The philosophy of performance and craftsmanship is directly applied to the latest offering of Apache PowerBoats. By no definition are McManus Apaches mass produced. Instead, a limited duplicative production of hull designs will be fabricated to maximum construction techniques and overall quality. Customers then have the opportunity to outfit their hulls with a nearly endless list of options, finishing with the powertrain, navigation systems and interior appointments to suit their every want and need. Whether a boat is headed for contention on the Poker Run Circuit or your favorite cruising or fishing waters as a weekend warrior, each McManus Apache is built to be a winning example of technology and craftsmanship."

They aren't even an ISO 900 company. If his boats were so great why is nobody buying them? Cigarette is doing well, Fountain is doing extremely well, what are "Apaches" sales numbers?

Like I said show me a recent world champion Apache and then you can talk. Claiming Apaches are so great and so tough is nice when they build nothing but flat bottom pleasure boats. The race curcuit seperates the tough proven boats vs the bs bar talk.
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Old 01-01-2006, 08:40 PM   #169
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Quote:
Originally posted by Comanche3Six
522ci supercharged BBC
#3 SSM
82mph

I feel both the 24' Cigarette and 36' Comanche meet the criteria of the question asked



No, they would not be competitive in today's inshore small water racing.
Yes, they are heavy duty non step V bottoms and it takes a lot of power to push them.
Yes, they are of extreme high build quality, built for rough water use, and give the best rough water ride without extreme hull failure like a cheap azz dime a dozen Fountain.
Yes, I own them both and that is my Neanderthal opinion.

Happy New Year

Ed
Neanderthal it is, that's why you like them, it's 80's technology! Anybody can build a very heavy, non step old school boat nobody is buying that takes aircraft carrier power to get them to go.
Different strokes for different folks is what they say!
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Old 01-01-2006, 11:41 PM   #170
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Speed
Pay attention to what the thread is about.

Quote:
Originally posted by Admiral P. Brain
think this question aimed at our US friends got lost on a previous site....


Which is the toughest built, best riding rough water hull your side of the pond??
In the 24-36ft range, new or old...
Cigarette, sonic, warlock, pantera, formula, apache, fountain, sunsation, active thunder, DCB ??

whats your view on stepped hulls compared to non stepped?? in terms of speed and handling/safety ??
If Admiral P Brain asked "What is the most prolific, poorest build quality, crapcraft that wins all of the inshore races yet comes apart like a 5 dollar watch and has the added bonus of it makes a great deer stand." And you posted Fountain. I would be the first Yank to agree.

Here is a little New Years Story for you. When I bought my Cigarette brand new in July 1987, I launched it in Atlantic Highlands, New Jersey and proceded to run the boat in the bay and ocean. By the end of the summer a single engine brand new 25ft? Fountain used to run with me in these waters. We were in some 3 to 4 footers right next to each other when we all heard a loud crack and the Fountain came to a halt. He opened his engine compartment and there was his engine ripped away from the stringers, also a huge crack in the side of his brand new boat. I am sure you can explain it away, but I will tell you his exact words. "What a piece of chit! I'm fixing this thing and selling it!"
And that is what he did. I am 51 years old and have lived on the Jersey shore my whole life. I know what can run the rough water and it certainly isn't Fountain. They have a well earned reputation for poor build quality. That's one story... I have more but all with the same ending, a broken Fountain.

Here is a pic of me and my friends in 1987 at the Cigarette factory picking up the FireFox. Thunderboat Row, it's gone. Replaced by condo's.
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Old 01-01-2006, 11:45 PM   #171
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I have a friend with a Cig 'mistress' in those exact colours.

were you collecting it pre, or post Aronows murder?
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Old 01-01-2006, 11:49 PM   #172
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jon Fuller
I have a friend with a Cig 'mistress' in those exact colours
That is a great rough water powerboat
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Old 02-01-2006, 12:00 AM   #173
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jon Fuller

were you collecting it pre, or post Aronows murder?
Don was shot before I picked the Firefox up, I think it was within yards of where you see me and my friends in the Cigarette parking lot unwrapping the boat.
Don "The Animal" Aronow
The man who loved rough water. He is probably turning in his grave when he sees the pond racing going on today.
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Old 02-01-2006, 12:28 AM   #174
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What Power does the Mistress have?
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Old 02-01-2006, 01:08 AM   #175
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Quote:
Originally posted by Comanche3Six
What Power does the Mistress have?
I'm not a Cig expert, so info on this boat may not be correct.

It's quite an old boat, 70's meebe early 80's, it has the older 'flared' bow style of Cig hull, and was built for Spanish a guy. Staggered motors, no cabin etc.
My mate (TD's mate really) bought it in Spain, and shipped it home to re-fit it.

He works in composites, and decided staggered motors used up too much space, so re-built the transom and re-jigged it for side by side motor fitment, expanding the cockpit considerably.

It has #3's , and a pair of 625hp Flagship motors, Dunno if you've heard of em?
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Old 02-01-2006, 01:20 AM   #176
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Sounds like they really put a lot of work into that Mistress. It should be a be a nice useable powerboat. Great for bring a lot of people out for the day on the water.
I have heard of Flagship....all good
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Old 02-01-2006, 01:23 AM   #177
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I'll see if I can get some pics
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Old 02-01-2006, 09:17 AM   #178
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Quote:
Originally posted by Comanche3Six
Speed
Pay attention to what the thread is about.



If Admiral P Brain asked "What is the most prolific, poorest build quality, crapcraft that wins all of the inshore races yet comes apart like a 5 dollar watch and has the added bonus of it makes a great deer stand." And you posted Fountain. I would be the first Yank to agree.

Here is a little New Years Story for you. When I bought my Cigarette brand new in July 1987, I launched it in Atlantic Highlands, New Jersey and proceded to run the boat in the bay and ocean. By the end of the summer a single engine brand new 25ft? Fountain used to run with me in these waters. We were in some 3 to 4 footers right next to each other when we all heard a loud crack and the Fountain came to a halt. He opened his engine compartment and there was his engine ripped away from the stringers, also a huge crack in the side of his brand new boat. I am sure you can explain it away, but I will tell you his exact words. "What a piece of chit! I'm fixing this thing and selling it!"
And that is what he did. I am 51 years old and have lived on the Jersey shore my whole life. I know what can run the rough water and it certainly isn't Fountain. They have a well earned reputation for poor build quality. That's one story... I have more but all with the same ending, a broken Fountain.

Here is a pic of me and my friends in 1987 at the Cigarette factory picking up the FireFox. Thunderboat Row, it's gone. Replaced by condo's.
Yeah, Fountain builds such "chit" they are the best selling high performance powerboat by far. Why is that? The market place doesn't lie.
Fountain builds such "chit" they DOMINATE the Offshore powerboat curcuit. The race curcuit doesn't lie
Fountain builds such "chit" they are an ISO 9000 company.
Fountain builds such "chit" it is the prefered high performance offshore fishing boat by far.
Not one person I know who owns a Fountain or has owned one ever had any problems with them, period.




So keep rambling on about how great Apaches are but until someone posts a thread asking:
What is a overweight, old low tech, flat bottom, piece of shi# resin bucket a high school votech class could build over two weekends which requires 6000 hp to run 50, Apache won't get my vote.

Oh and Fountain never produced a 25 ft boat.
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Old 02-01-2006, 04:06 PM   #179
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Quote:
Originally posted by Speed

Oh and Fountain never produced a 25 ft boat.
I knocked off a few feet for the beak.

Post a pic of your Fountain.
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Old 02-01-2006, 08:45 PM   #180
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Quote:
Originally posted by Comanche3Six
I knocked off a few feet for the beak.

Post a pic of your Fountain.
Sure you did.
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