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Old 11-06-2014, 07:36 AM   #1
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what is YOUR opinion on this

it has been proposed a 150 epa racing class for next year,the boats that cannot do 3c have an option,put a canopy on their boat,not an easy fix,or re engine their boats for new class.do you think they should buy a complete new motor OR buy a 150 epa powerhead to put on their existing offshore midsection,a cheaper easy fix for boats that now dont comply with 3c rules.this question WILL come up so it would be nice to have some feedback
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Old 11-06-2014, 08:59 AM   #2
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I think that a 150hp class makes a good way to go forward.

But cannot really see that you allow 15" shaft engines - as whilst pleasing a few - it is not a readily available option.

Then keeping things simple - do you allow all badged 150hp engines, so including the HO? I hope so.

Should be a good class.
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Old 11-06-2014, 09:20 AM   #3
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If it's going to be an EPA class then I think it would have to go the same way as 3A/B, only allow stock motors with modified mounts and saddles if you wish. Production engines available through any dealer, not special orders like the 200XS was.

Still can't see what's wrong with running a 200hp P20/21 etc though, there's half a dozen here and I can't see the owners forking out £10k for a new motor...
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Old 11-06-2014, 09:24 AM   #4
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And it needs to be open to ANY EPA compliant 150hp motor, if it's badged as a 150 from the factory then it's a 150, regardless of whether it has HO or XS after it... Verados, 4 stroke Yams, Evinrude HO, Merc/Mariner Optimax, Merc Pro XS, if it's a 150 and it's EPA compliant then it should be allowed.
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Old 11-06-2014, 10:44 AM   #5
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Last one out please turn the light off !!
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Old 11-06-2014, 11:13 AM   #6
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+1 Paul E

Belive some guys have seen our V-150 W-150 classes here in Sweden?
They work very good now when we have to use EPA engines. Cheating is way easier to detect. Only one E-tec that have been cheating so far. Its all fair Racing now. Or, more fair than before!
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Old 11-06-2014, 11:14 AM   #7
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While I appreciate the intention of trying to get the 3C boats back out somehow, is another new class really whats needed?
Besides, they wont be 3C any more and just another national class with less than a handfull of boats.
I think consolodating classes is what really needs to be looked at..
If a simple system of bracketed classes by HP or capacity was adopted, then you wouldnt have to ask your question.
Just go buy your 150 EPA powerhead, bolt it on your OS mid and go race with other 150 boats. Just seems too easy!!
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Old 11-06-2014, 12:01 PM   #8
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This was our proposal that was blocked by Offshore Racing Committee !! We have been trying for many years now to get all racing together under a simple format but sadly to no avail.

Group Min Length Engine
1 7.00 m Over 200 hp
2 5.25 m Up to 200 hp
3 4.50 m Up to 150 hp

All high performance engines i.e. XS, HO, Pro V, Super charged or Modified (Unless specifically rated by the Manufacturer) may be placed into next higher group.

b) Any Boat / Engine which conforms will be allowed subject to approval. However,
due to the extreme variations that could arise, any Craft seemingly over / under powered will be referred to RYA for approval and if accepted into which group.
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Old 11-06-2014, 01:35 PM   #9
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Real Can Of Worms.

So very difficult to police a standard engine class when the motors are not homologated.

So why would somebody market an HO engine if it was just 150hp? What are the differences?

How about a handicap system, everybody still lines up together but the start is on different coloured flags. Standard on 1 flag, change colour then the HO or whatever go 20 seconds later. It can be adjusted after a few races like the touring cars carry ballast, so say an HO starts 20 secs after a standard engine if it then wins by 20 secs or consistently laps faster than the average standard time then it can be folded back by a margin. If it then struggles time can be given back slowly. There are a number of issues with this system, I won't go into them but after a while it can lead to close racing. This system allows you to race similar setups while still only holding 1 race for all the different types.
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Old 11-06-2014, 01:45 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OCRDA View Post
Last one out please turn the light off !!
Isn't it more a case of the light being turned on?

It is fairly obvious how this thread will go. Those with a desire to see fair racing utilising current off the shelf motors and those that prefer the route of playing mechanics with engines to gain an advantage.

Personally I see a route for both whilst we are in a depressed state. EPA only for national / international classes so that the competitor knows that he can enter competitively without needing to throw his cheque book at enhancements and club racing for those that want to continue with old equipment.

Brian's original question though relates to the forming of a class that has several boats already rigged (E1500) and extending that to give a solution to those that are stuck with boats that cannot be raced in their current format.

Hard to see why anyone would object to that.
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Old 11-06-2014, 04:41 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Techteam View Post
Real Can Of Worms.

So very difficult to police a standard engine class when the motors are not homologated.

So why would somebody market an HO engine if it was just 150hp? What are the differences?

How about a handicap system, everybody still lines up together but the start is on different coloured flags. Standard on 1 flag, change colour then the HO or whatever go 20 seconds later. It can be adjusted after a few races like the touring cars carry ballast, so say an HO starts 20 secs after a standard engine if it then wins by 20 secs or consistently laps faster than the average standard time then it can be folded back by a margin. If it then struggles time can be given back slowly. There are a number of issues with this system, I won't go into them but after a while it can lead to close racing. This system allows you to race similar setups while still only holding 1 race for all the different types.
We tried staggered starts here last year, it's confusing for racers, let alone spectators, and we all found it took away from the feel of 'racing'. I thought it would work at first, but it really didn't work very well.

We're now running an A/B class for 3A/B compliant boats with yam 90s or EPA 115s, there's a '200' class for single rigs of around 200hp (there's a Promax 225, 2.4 EFi, a few 200xs, and everyone is pretty equal!) and an 'unlimited' class for the V24s, twin rigs etc. It's working brilliantly so far, very close racing, no single boat is dominating the 115 or 200 class, we have mass rolling starts again, and the spectators can clearly see what's going on.

The engines don't need to be homologated for it to work - if it's rated as 150 by the manufacturer and EPA, then it's a 150. HO, Pro XS, fishing Opti, they're all rated at 150hp, you pay your money and make your choice. It ought to be pretty obvious if anyone is bending one. I wouldn't want to race my 115HO against the V4 yam '115's a few of the OCR boats have now though...
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Old 11-06-2014, 07:50 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul E View Post
We tried staggered starts here last year, it's confusing for racers, let alone spectators, and we all found it took away from the feel of 'racing'. I thought it would work at first, but it really didn't work very well.

We're now running an A/B class for 3A/B compliant boats with yam 90s or EPA 115s, there's a '200' class for single rigs of around 200hp (there's a Promax 225, 2.4 EFi, a few 200xs, and everyone is pretty equal!) and an 'unlimited' class for the V24s, twin rigs etc. It's working brilliantly so far, very close racing, no single boat is dominating the 115 or 200 class, we have mass rolling starts again, and the spectators can clearly see what's going on.

The engines don't need to be homologated for it to work - if it's rated as 150 by the manufacturer and EPA, then it's a 150. HO, Pro XS, fishing Opti, they're all rated at 150hp, you pay your money and make your choice. It ought to be pretty obvious if anyone is bending one. I wouldn't want to race my 115HO against the V4 yam '115's a few of the OCR boats have now though...
As an HO engine owner then you didn't answer the question. Is a 115HO more expensive than a 115 and what's the difference ?

The idea of the staggered starts is to get everyone over the line at the same time so the spectators know who the winner is i.e first boat over is the winner 90/115/200 or whatever are you saying that you all finish together? It confusing when you have a race with 7 different winners which has to be explained to the spectators or a race with say 7 boats in where they all win their class.
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Old 11-06-2014, 08:21 PM   #13
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race

back to my original question,will rule makers allow you to buy a 150 pro xs powerhead to put on a 15in offshore mid,it seems the opinion is no it has to be a standard complete motor.But what happens if mercury decide to sell 150pro xs on offshore mids .Dont forget mercury want to win races.As for yhe 150 class i think it should be any motor ,offshore or not between 150 and 199hp that should please everyone
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Old 11-06-2014, 08:25 PM   #14
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If Mercury sells a 150 Pro Xs (commersial engine made for the Bassfishing market) with a Offshore racing sadle I will happily take one of my cleaverpropps and shuv it up my arse without lube.



Did not mean to be a jerk here. My point is: Offshoresadles are racing. Pro Xs is commerisial. Big difference!
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Old 11-06-2014, 08:36 PM   #15
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[QUOTE=Zander;

Did not mean to be a jerk here. My point is: Offshoresadles are racing. Pro Xs is commerisial. Big difference![/QUOTE]

ah ha we are getting somewhere at last,the 150 proposed class are racing a commercial saddle NOT ment for racing.is that what you meen?
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Old 11-06-2014, 08:59 PM   #16
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You can race em! They do take alot of beating before they break. Not as tough as the offshore sadle I take it.
But no. Pro Xs, H.O are not Racingengines from the start. The only engine made today that is for racing is the 200xs I think.... 15" leg that is.
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Old 11-06-2014, 10:30 PM   #17
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[QUOTE=Techteam;247355]As an HO engine owner then you didn't answer the question. Is a 115HO more expensive than a 115 and what's the difference ?

I think you know the answer to this but just checking to see if anyone else does !!
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Old 11-06-2014, 10:46 PM   #18
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https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=...&v=N1a00W5hxrY

This is the answer !! Single seated offshore !
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Old 11-06-2014, 11:30 PM   #19
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In my opinion... this should have been done 4 years ago. I think its too little too late. When I mentioned this years ago and suggested we go along side other countries with
150s people agreed it was a good idea then in good uk fashion the bcc class was upped to 200 hp to support at best 3 boats that did not do a whole season. At the time there was still a number of complete rigs ready to go. now many of them have been split or sold.
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Old 12-06-2014, 08:31 AM   #20
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[QUOTE=OCRDA;247367]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Techteam View Post
As an HO engine owner then you didn't answer the question. Is a 115HO more expensive than a 115 and what's the difference ?

I think you know the answer to this but just checking to see if anyone else does !!
Isn't the 115HO around the same sort of money or cheaper than the Yamaha 115 PRONON-EPAHO190PSI-RINGER?

Big difference being that one is in production, homologated and available to the public?
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