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26-05-2004, 12:41 AM
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#61
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numbskull
Country: United Kingdom
Location: South
Occupation: none
Interests: none
Boat name: Leviathan
Boat make: Phantom 28
Cruising area: South Coast
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: South
Posts: 15,959
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OK, which one of you Yanks can tell me about this bad boy?
I took this pic at fort Apache in about 2000, I presume it's a 47 hull with a load of topsides taken out, but that's all I (think) I know
jf
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"I Agree with everything you say really!" - John Cooke to Jon Fuller - 26-01-2013
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26-05-2004, 03:03 PM
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#62
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Registered User
Location: Cheshire
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Cheshire
Posts: 137
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Quote:
Originally posted by cashbrain
Jon's server is not big enough to go into that story... 
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Abso 'fekin' lutely
I started to do some digging around on the subject of Aronow, Cig, Apache, Kramer etc. and wished I hadn't started. Rather than answer my questions it just gave me more and more to ask.
This thread http://www.palmbeachpost.com/localne...34192005e.html
seems to be the latest information on the Apache saga, whereas this thread www.njppc.com/classicarticles.htm
gives links to Miami Herald News Stories of Don Aranow's death etc.
Jon, whose ex factory were you at when you took the pictures of the moulds. Was it the Apache 'factory' rather than Fort Apache marina? If they are Apache moulds they could be anywhere and still be being used judging from what I've been reading on various forums.
I also found this site when I was doing some digging
www.thunderboatalley.com
Thought you might be interested if you hadn't already seen it.
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26-05-2004, 03:11 PM
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#63
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Exec Member
Country: USA
Location: CHICAGO
Boat name: WARLORD
Boat make: 35 CIG MISTRESS
Engines: 500'S
Join Date: May 2004
Location: CHICAGO
Posts: 117
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ian
Abso 'fekin' lutely
I started to do some digging around on the subject of Aronow, Cig, Apache, Kramer etc. and wished I hadn't started. Rather than answer my questions it just gave me more and more to ask.
This thread http://www.palmbeachpost.com/localne...34192005e.html
seems to be the latest information on the Apache saga, whereas this thread www.njppc.com/classicarticles.htm
gives links to Miami Herald News Stories of Don Aranow's death etc.
Jon, whose ex factory were you at when you took the pictures of the moulds. Was it the Apache 'factory' rather than Fort Apache marina? If they are Apache moulds they could be anywhere and still be being used judging from what I've been reading on various forums.
I also found this site when I was doing some digging
www.thunderboatalley.com
Thought you might be interested if you hadn't already seen it.
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Apache on 188th street was Bob Saccenti's and Fort Apache was next door,that belonged to Ben Kramer.
Also,the Palm Beach article is BS...I would not comment to the reporter and considering litigation.
Last thing..thunderboat alley web site is my web designer for OFFSHOREPOWERBOAT.COM Sean is a great designer !!
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26-05-2004, 03:11 PM
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#64
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numbskull
Country: United Kingdom
Location: South
Occupation: none
Interests: none
Boat name: Leviathan
Boat make: Phantom 28
Cruising area: South Coast
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: South
Posts: 15,959
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The pic was taken in ft Apache Marina 188th NE
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"I Agree with everything you say really!" - John Cooke to Jon Fuller - 26-01-2013
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26-05-2004, 03:12 PM
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#65
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Exec Member
Country: USA
Location: CHICAGO
Boat name: WARLORD
Boat make: 35 CIG MISTRESS
Engines: 500'S
Join Date: May 2004
Location: CHICAGO
Posts: 117
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Ben Kramer built the 41's and 47's in another location...
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26-05-2004, 03:12 PM
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#66
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numbskull
Country: United Kingdom
Location: South
Occupation: none
Interests: none
Boat name: Leviathan
Boat make: Phantom 28
Cruising area: South Coast
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: South
Posts: 15,959
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So what is raceboat No 50 then?
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"I Agree with everything you say really!" - John Cooke to Jon Fuller - 26-01-2013
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26-05-2004, 03:13 PM
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#67
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numbskull
Country: United Kingdom
Location: South
Occupation: none
Interests: none
Boat name: Leviathan
Boat make: Phantom 28
Cruising area: South Coast
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: South
Posts: 15,959
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MMn, so Bob started 'Apache', then Kramer bought this firm from him?
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"I Agree with everything you say really!" - John Cooke to Jon Fuller - 26-01-2013
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26-05-2004, 03:14 PM
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#68
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Exec Member
Country: USA
Location: CHICAGO
Boat name: WARLORD
Boat make: 35 CIG MISTRESS
Engines: 500'S
Join Date: May 2004
Location: CHICAGO
Posts: 117
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That is,the last boat they raced,I believe...but,I'll check with Bob.
Ben was on his way up to Michigan and the Feds confiscated the boat and arrested him...
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26-05-2004, 03:16 PM
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#69
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numbskull
Country: United Kingdom
Location: South
Occupation: none
Interests: none
Boat name: Leviathan
Boat make: Phantom 28
Cruising area: South Coast
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: South
Posts: 15,959
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I thought Kramer got banged up way before 2000, early 90's I thought.
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"I Agree with everything you say really!" - John Cooke to Jon Fuller - 26-01-2013
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26-05-2004, 03:19 PM
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#70
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Exec Member
Country: USA
Location: CHICAGO
Boat name: WARLORD
Boat make: 35 CIG MISTRESS
Engines: 500'S
Join Date: May 2004
Location: CHICAGO
Posts: 117
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Quote:
Originally posted by jon fuller
MMn, so Bob started Apache, then Kramer bought this firm from him?
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Oh boy..here we go...
Ben funded the building of the boats and Ben and Bob raced together.
Ben and Bob broke off..Bob building under 41 FT boats and Ben built 41 and up...two different companies,same name, and they still raced together.Don Aronow gave Bob the land that APACHE stood on 188th street.That facility had nothing to do with Ben.
Ft APACHE was next door and Ben built that marina...
On the video that I sent you Jon is when Ben opened up that marina...
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26-05-2004, 03:20 PM
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#71
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Exec Member
Country: USA
Location: CHICAGO
Boat name: WARLORD
Boat make: 35 CIG MISTRESS
Engines: 500'S
Join Date: May 2004
Location: CHICAGO
Posts: 117
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Quote:
Originally posted by jon fuller
I thought Kramer got banged up way before 2000, early 90's I thought.
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Banged up..is that arrested??Ben was arrested in 1987
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26-05-2004, 03:23 PM
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#72
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Registered User
Location: Cheshire
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Cheshire
Posts: 137
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Quote:
Originally posted by cashbrain
Also,the Palm Beach article is BS...I would not comment to the reporter and considering litigation.
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Cashbrain / Jack, My apologies, I've only just put 2+2 togehter and realized who you are.
No offence was meant by posting the thread.
Ian.
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26-05-2004, 03:24 PM
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#73
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Exec Member
Country: USA
Location: CHICAGO
Boat name: WARLORD
Boat make: 35 CIG MISTRESS
Engines: 500'S
Join Date: May 2004
Location: CHICAGO
Posts: 117
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None taken...it's not an issue for me...
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26-05-2004, 03:24 PM
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#74
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numbskull
Country: United Kingdom
Location: South
Occupation: none
Interests: none
Boat name: Leviathan
Boat make: Phantom 28
Cruising area: South Coast
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: South
Posts: 15,959
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Quote:
Originally posted by cashbrain
Banged up..is that arrested??Ben was arrested in 1987
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I see, banged up is 'imprisoned' in 'limey speak'
__________________
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"I Agree with everything you say really!" - John Cooke to Jon Fuller - 26-01-2013
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26-05-2004, 03:26 PM
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#75
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numbskull
Country: United Kingdom
Location: South
Occupation: none
Interests: none
Boat name: Leviathan
Boat make: Phantom 28
Cruising area: South Coast
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: South
Posts: 15,959
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87! so he's done 16-17 years already
__________________
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"I Agree with everything you say really!" - John Cooke to Jon Fuller - 26-01-2013
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26-05-2004, 03:29 PM
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#76
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Registered User
Location: Cheshire
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Cheshire
Posts: 137
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Quote:
Originally posted by cashbrain
Oh boy..here we go...
Ben funded the building of the boats and Ben and Bob raced together.
Ben and Bob broke off..Bob building under 41 FT boats and Ben built 41 and up...two different companies,same name, and they still raced together.Don Aronow gave Bob the land that APACHE stood on 188th street.That facility had nothing to do with Ben.
Ft APACHE was next door and Ben built that marina...
On the video that I sent you Jon is when Ben opened up that marina...
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So Don never set up Apache he just did a deal with the land and Apache bought a hull design / mould. Correct.
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26-05-2004, 03:29 PM
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#77
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Exec Member
Country: USA
Location: CHICAGO
Boat name: WARLORD
Boat make: 35 CIG MISTRESS
Engines: 500'S
Join Date: May 2004
Location: CHICAGO
Posts: 117
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Yes,that's correct...
here's a pic with Tommy, Ben, and James Caan
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26-05-2004, 03:31 PM
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#78
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Registered User
Location: portsmouth
Occupation: car dealer
Interests: basic racing
Boat name: explosion
Boat make: backdraft
Engines: mercury xr2
Cruising area: solent
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: portsmouth
Posts: 119
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wasnt there a film made about don aronow
__________________
whatever floats your boat.....got one again
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26-05-2004, 03:31 PM
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#79
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Registered User
Location: Cheshire
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Cheshire
Posts: 137
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Quote:
Originally posted by jon fuller
87! so he's done 16-17 years already
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Yeah but he got life for the drugs things and another 19 years for the shooting so I don't think he'll be out for a while yet.
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26-05-2004, 03:32 PM
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#80
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Exec Member
Country: USA
Location: CHICAGO
Boat name: WARLORD
Boat make: 35 CIG MISTRESS
Engines: 500'S
Join Date: May 2004
Location: CHICAGO
Posts: 117
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Benny and Bob
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