F1 2.0 Merc Set up on Av Gas

[A30]

Hi I bought the F1 2 litre EFI powerhead to attempt the speed records on coniston at the end of the year, Also to have some fun with my allready 80MPH Class III offshore cat.
I have been told its 300Hp+

Basically i know virtually everything about XR2's and nothing about F1's other than i looked inside with a borescope and its HUGE ports nearly ate my arm off!!

I need to know the following please;

*How well will it go with the XR2 Tuner pipe?
*Should i source a F1 tuner?
*Does anyone have a tuner for sale?
*Where can i get Av-Gas near to Teignmouth?
*What sort of revs does the powerband sit?
*What are the safe revs limit if set up correctly?
*How many hours before a re-build?
*Whats the estimated HP if i replace the 21cc heads with XR2 heads and run on pump petrol?

*will my Holley pump run enough pressure to the engine, Its running a black/59psi FPR

*What should the static fuel pressure be (between pump and rail, if thats the best place to tap the gauge into?)

*What compression ratio is it currently running?
*Am i gonna die having a lot of fun with this beast????

I Really would like to get to know this motor and maximize it's potential....without seeing its guts, or mine fly across the water...Cheers

[Burty]

the xr2 tuner will restrict it you really need a 2.5 one as the xr2 has smaller exhausts.
its 56psi not 59 and you need pressure take off as close to rail as possible
probably around 210psi compression
i recon your speed will be in the 3 figures
rev limit is around 11500rpm

[A30]

Originally Posted by Burty

the xr2 tuner will restrict it you really need a 2.5 one as the xr2 has smaller exhausts.
its 56psi not 59 and you need pressure take off as close to rail as possible
probably around 210psi compression
i recon your speed will be in the 3 figures
rev limit is around 11500rpm

By The way Thanks Burty for selling this on behalf of your friend

just to clarify when you say 210 psi do you mean Cylinder compressions? If so at cranking speed?

I DO intend to break the 100MPH mark and gain my very own gold star!..

My Tacho only reads 9999k RPM Doh!

[OCRDA]

If only i could sell my own stuff that easy !!

Did you try the little prop Stu ??

Bob

[Burty]

i have no idea what the compression should be it was just a wild guess
you can run 150psi max on super unleaded

[A30]

Originally Posted by OCRDA

If only i could sell my own stuff that easy !!

Did you try the little prop Stu ??

Bob

"If only" LOL

Thanks for the heads up on the F1 Bob, You must know a few of the answers to my F1 questions?

I was too busy having blowouts on the motorway and collecting F1's today to test props besides a bit blowy..will keep you posted

Cheres!

[Burty]

Originally Posted by OCRDA

If only i could sell my own stuff that easy !!


Bob

I wish i could sell my own stuff too!

[steve h]

Originally Posted by A30

By The way Thanks Burty for selling this on behalf of your friend

just to clarify when you say 210 psi do you mean Cylinder compressions? If so at cranking speed?

I DO intend to break the 100MPH mark and gain my very own gold star!..

My Tacho only reads 9999k RPM Doh!

you have just wasted alot of time and money,

[A30]

Originally Posted by steve h

you have just wasted alot of time and money,

And your point is?....a lot of smiles for your miles

[Techteam]

I'm interested what class you think your gonna run that in at Coniston. I wouldn't treat it like you would an XR2 or a 2.5 wrap it up warm at nite and drip feed it milk and honey. Do you own a digital efi tester? How long till he cut's it in half Steve? Also carry a fire extinguisher close at all times, when the rods exit the side and bust off the fuel rail they made an impressive fire. How many hours has it run since the rebuild? and at what revs. It's just not an engine I would recommend for the type of boat you are going to put it on, most of the power is right at the top.

[bernicotje]

http://www.sonautic.fr/sonautic_raci...hore_cadre.htm
here you have the specs for an original F1 2.0 ... revs out around 9000 rpm and 280hp.
the one you have should be a tuned version and revs out on 11.500 rpm.
it needs rebuiling every 10 hours counting revs above 6 a 6500 rpm.
you got a nice engine there , im running the same engine on regular gas with 26cc heads.

[A30]

Originally Posted by Techteam

I'm interested what class you think your gonna run that in at Coniston. I wouldn't treat it like you would an XR2 or a 2.5 wrap it up warm at nite and drip feed it milk and honey. Do you own a digital efi tester? How long till he cut's it in half Steve? Also carry a fire extinguisher close at all times, when the rods exit the side and bust off the fuel rail they made an impressive fire. How many hours has it run since the rebuild? and at what revs. It's just not an engine I would recommend for the type of boat you are going to put it on, most of the power is right at the top.

I am after information on weather or not i can do some kind of multi hull record at coniston with it, Maybe you know?

I do realize how temperamental and special this engine is, I am gonna run an Dual EGT gauge in the divider plate to monitor its heartbeat!

I have access to DDT if thats what you mean, but i am pretty sure that will only read opti's. Why do i need an efi tool unless it misbehaves? have you had experiences with common faults with ecu/efi set-up?

This engine was removed from a fully functional rig yesterday where it had absolutely no expense spared, It was also Nico's personal engine.

Already i have partially stripped the front end,bore scoped,compression tested and leak off tested it as a matter of course. Compressions where 150 even,Leak of was 100% or "Set" and everything looked A-OK , with the exception of slightly chipped carbon reeds which i will replace.

I am also gonna source my fuel from a reputable place and test it with a hydrometer first. I will be running biolube @32:1

Nico ran it @10,000Rpm on the canal at the beginning of the 2007 season,Since then it has done 15-20Hrs and has never seen more than 7,000 rpm as the ski race season was mainly rough.

Surely if this has proved reliable on a 1200Kilo phantom 21 pulling a skier it would be better off on my 800Kilo cat?

I Do take this engine/set up seriously which is why i am researching as much as possible before i bolt it onto the boat...Trust me i do not want to see the piece of "Jewelery" broken.

Anyone got any helpful Technical information??

[Burty]

A P21 aint 1200kgs more like 800 fully rigged with fuel

[A30]

Originally Posted by Burty

A P21 aint 1200kgs more like 800 fully rigged with fuel

ok, was just going on what the owner and driver told me yesterday. the point is I am sure it will be happier on my cat not pulling a skier

Hey Burty can you help with any of my questions plz?

[MrRob]

One things for sure your gonna need several changes of clean pants with that thing!

[A30]

Originally Posted by MrRob

One things for sure your gonna need several changes of clean pants with that thing!

ganna wear a nappie and starve myself for a few days first.

[Techteam]

You want to know the mixture is on the richer side, be careful changing the reeds, check the cages very carefully for cracks in the corners as you will see the machining is a lot more on the F1 cages, use loctite and do not overtighten the cages on the spacer plate. At those sort of hours I'd pull the pistons and check them, replace the rod bolts, the correct head gaskets as there are different thickness. I wouldn't use that engine offshore alone EGT is questionable A: things go wrong very quickly and B: You will struggle to keep the thermocouples reading correctly for long. Rule of thumb is if you think something is wrong it probably will be come off the power and give it one more try if it isnt there SWITCH IT OFF. You have bought a good engine cheap, blocks are getting very hard to find and people to cut them properly even harder. As regards records that engine is not homologated so that kills most offshore records any unlimited records are probably out of your reach and most would consider it foolish to try and run your type of boat at those speeds without canopies a cell or restraint.

[MrRob]

Originally Posted by Techteam

You want to know the mixture is on the richer side, be careful changing the reeds, check the cages very carefully for cracks in the corners as you will see the machining is a lot more on the F1 cages, use loctite and do not overtighten the cages on the spacer plate. At those sort of hours I'd pull the pistons and check them, replace the rod bolts, the correct head gaskets as there are different thickness. I wouldn't use that engine offshore alone EGT is questionable A: things go wrong very quickly and B: You will struggle to keep the thermocouples reading correctly for long. Rule of thumb is if you think something is wrong it probably will be come off the power and give it one more try if it isnt there SWITCH IT OFF. You have bought a good engine cheap, blocks are getting very hard to find and people to cut them properly even harder. As regards records that engine is not homologated so that kills most offshore records any unlimited records are probably out of your reach and most would consider it foolish to try and run your type of boat at those speeds without canopies a cell or restraint.

But otherwise go for it! lol

[A30]

Originally Posted by Techteam

You want to know the mixture is on the richer side, be careful changing the reeds, check the cages very carefully for cracks in the corners as you will see the machining is a lot more on the F1 cages, use loctite and do not overtighten the cages on the spacer plate. At those sort of hours I'd pull the pistons and check them, replace the rod bolts, the correct head gaskets as there are different thickness. I wouldn't use that engine offshore alone EGT is questionable A: things go wrong very quickly and B: You will struggle to keep the thermocouples reading correctly for long. Rule of thumb is if you think something is wrong it probably will be come off the power and give it one more try if it isnt there SWITCH IT OFF. You have bought a good engine cheap, blocks are getting very hard to find and people to cut them properly even harder. As regards records that engine is not homologated so that kills most offshore records any unlimited records are probably out of your reach and most would consider it foolish to try and run your type of boat at those speeds without canopies a cell or restraint.

Good info thank you.
Do the pistons commonly hairline crack around the wrist pin radius?

i have access to a metal xray light and dye so will very carefully inspect all parts.

If you think of anythink else Techteam let me know, I will also keep updates posted.

The way i am thinking at the moment is do i need 300+HP on my cat, Maybe i will go the lower compression head route and run lower revs on pump fuel?

Hey Bernicotje, Do you know what mods where done to the ECU?
I see it has a din plug and a variable pot inside it.
Maybe a number code for the 280hp one?

[Techteam]

I don't know what pistons are in your engine later pistons are of a different design, manufacturer, and the cracking problem seemed much improved. Check the piston ring pins, also check the rings if they are sticking I change them you will feel what I mean. I think the newer pistons expand differently and trap the rings. As you say the rings have to bridge a big gap and wear quite quickly I was always amazed at how big the F1 exhaust port was given they used to bridge the much smaller exhaust port on a 2.4. XR2 Tuner is no good if you look in the exhaust chamber you will see they do a lot of cutting, blending in the bottom, also check the dimension in the cowl bottom tray, I have had a few with the plate changed for a stainless one with too small exhaust holes.