P25 vs. Revenger 25 comparisons for BBC

larby · 03-01-2010, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jon Fuller

The P25 is around 6' 'overall' beam, your revenger is IRO 7' overall beam. In what way do you mean, 'physically much bigger'? both 25', and the revenger is a foot wider.
The Phanny might be a bit deeper, but not by much.

Went and did some measuring today... Turns out they're surprisingly similar!

Height from bottom of V to topside
Revenger 3'5"
Phantom 3'5"

Of which V, freeboard, upper deck
Revenger 15",18",8"
Phantom 10",21",10"

Chine beam
Revenger 5'8"
Phantom 5'1"

Beam
Revenger 6'6"
Phantom 5'8"

Width between stringers (centre to centre)
Revenger 31.5" (80cm)
Phantom 31" (79cm)

Length from inside transom at top, to dash
Revenger 11'3"
Phantom 9'6"

Width of access to engine (hatch width on revenger)
Revenger 52"
Phantom 54" (an inch would be lost each side due to hatch mounting)

So, from all that, It seems it would infact be possible to mount a BBC in the back of a P25, though the engine room would be tight longitudinally if wanting 4 seats, and the seating area would be tight too. In the revenger I reckon i could loose 1ft from the length of the engine room with no issues, possibly more if i put a hatch in the bulkhead, so the engine room and 4 seats should fit in the Phantom easily enough.

I'm in two minds now. I've been offered a P25 i could save to get, not in great nick from what I can gather, but structually sound. Reasonable price.
Or, i just continue with the revenger. I could probably fix the revenger myself for the money I'd be spending on the phantom, but having just climbed about my mate's P25 hull, it just feels a thousand times more sturdy and solid. That said, I really don't have money to throw around at the mo. It'll cost me about 1.5k to transport the P25 here too.
I can either get going with the revenger now, or wait and save for the P25, looking to start that next year perhaps.

Anyone got any comments to make? Anything appreciated!

Cheers, James

Jon Holmes · 03-01-2010, 07:01 PM

James,

The P25 is a nice boat but one that is not up together is something else completely.

If the P25 is not in good shape, you could find yourself paying for another boat and transport and still find you need to spend a considerable sum getting it up to standard.

Wouldn't you be better off spending that money on the revenger?

Remember, a shit boat in excellent condition will always be better than an excellent boat in shit condition.

Just my 2p worth.

larby · 03-01-2010, 07:11 PM

Well, I must admit that's the way I'm looking at it too. If the P25 were in original gel and good original condition I'd be a lot more tempted.
I prefer the shape of the P25 at the mo, the revenger is a bit 'different' looking with the flat step all the way around the topside, almost as though someone made a 23' x 5' deck fit a 25' x 6'6 boat.

Looks aside, I also know how the revenger will perform with the BBC, the P25 is a totally unknown quantity. I'd have to guess an X dimension, tank location and allsorts.

James

driver510 · 03-01-2010, 07:14 PM

buy the phantom i think its a better boat but i would say that having a phantom

Paul E · 03-01-2010, 07:19 PM

I'd stick with the revenger. You have it in your vinery ready to go, you have everything needed to rig it and it's a proven boat with a BBC. Stick with it, do it right and you'll have an awesome boat a lot quicker than you'd have the p25, which may turn out to be a dog with a V8 anyway!

With an up to date graphic job and a nice interior she'll be a looker too!

larby · 03-01-2010, 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by driver510

buy the phantom i think its a better boat but i would say that having a phantom

Have you ever been out in a mediterainee to make the comparison??

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul E

I'd stick with the revenger. You have it in your vinery ready to go, you have everything needed to rig it and it's a proven boat with a BBC. Stick with it, do it right and you'll have an awesome boat a lot quicker than you'd have the p25, which may turn out to be a dog with a V8 anyway!

With an up to date graphic job and a nice interior she'll be a looker too!

That's the way I'm starting to look at it. After having it looked over I'd resigned it to the scrappies, but in the situation I'm in I think i'd probably end up with a far better finished product with the revenger.

James

Paul E · 03-01-2010, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by larby

Have you ever been out in a mediterainee to make the comparison??

That's the way I'm starting to look at it. After having it looked over I'd resigned it to the scrappies, but in the situation I'm in I think i'd probably end up with a far better finished product with the revenger.

James

If you go ahead with it I'm up for helping out with any donkey work, I can borrow anything specialist you might need off my old man, he's got all sorts of cool stuff for cutting things up with

larby · 03-01-2010, 07:29 PM

Quite fancy calling the revenger 'Phantom Worrier' if I do it

I wonder how many people who don't know powerboats will point out that I've spelt 'warrior' wrong?

larby · 03-01-2010, 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul E

If you go ahead with it I'm up for helping out with any donkey work, I can borrow anything specialist you might need off my old man, he's got all sorts of cool stuff for cutting things up with

Sweet. You know I'm gonna hold you to that eh! I'm gonna be needing all the help I can get with getting the glasswork done fast enough!
I'd really, really like to get it done in time for at least some of the racing this year, it's just a case of me finding enough time to do it. Any help cuts that required time right down, especially when that help has the slightest clue what they're doing!

Infact, sod it. I'm gonna stick with the revenger. In my heart i want to finish it, and pretty much everyone seems to agree with that! Decision made, I'll get on with it tomorrow!!

James

Jon Holmes · 03-01-2010, 07:38 PM

Best of luck james.

Matt · 03-01-2010, 07:40 PM

I think a P25 looks a lot more hardcore (which I like), but prob less practical as a pleasure boat and IIRC needs to be driven hard to avoid getting wet.

larby · 03-01-2010, 07:41 PM

God am I gonna need it!! It's like De ja vue!! Ah well eh, someone's gotta do the budget build threads for everyone to read eh! Lets just hope that this time I end up with something i can use for years to come!

Jon - Keep up with your build too, it's an (impossible) target for me to aim for!!

James

Carl · 03-01-2010, 07:57 PM

i think your doing the right thing sticking with the revenger. is the puma not up and running at the moment so you can use it

Big Dutch · 03-01-2010, 08:35 PM

Larby fix the Revenger.
YOU WOULD NEED TO SPEND SOME MONEY THOUGH!
To me it looks like £250 on epoxy,tape and 19 mm ply.
Alternativly you could spend £500 on a powerhead for your cat-sorted.
You are only going to race it and a little pleasure so it doesnt have to be perfect straight away.
Maybe phase it over three years-a bit at a time.

Jon Fuller · 03-01-2010, 08:37 PM

Stick with the Revenger. A 5' chine beam is too narrow for the weight you want to put in.

But fix it properly. By that I mean, new longits, from transom to where they terminate in the forefoot. Do a decent repair on the spray rails, and beef up substantialy the area of the rails in which the longits will sit. probably tie the longits up to deck level in the foredeck. And maybe some longitudinal stiffening along the topsides fwd, which seemed to be a weakpoint on that boat before.

Finally, don't be daft with the engine, for the boats sake, and your sanity if you want a reliable racer/poker runner.

That's my say.

dowdy · 03-01-2010, 08:39 PM

Would a brand new bare hull with stringers at 36" centres to give you more room for your engine mounts,a 2ft. stretch on the total length,rear bulkhead fitted,engine hatch fitted be any good to you? An option we have considered,if two of us wanted one it would be viable,get saving James,I know what you really really want,what i really really want is to make it affordable.

larby · 03-01-2010, 09:02 PM

Carl - Nope, she's not up and running. The money from her needs to go back where it came from to fund the revenger, for that reason i can't risk getting back into using her. Also it's a logistical nightmare, can't tow her without and escort and can't keep her anywhere near the water.

Dutch - It's a hell of a lot more than that!

Jon - That's exactly what John said when he looked over her. He also suggested 4 transverse braces running right up to the topside. The engine bulkhead, one half way up the cockpit floor, the dash bulkhead and possibly one in the cabin. Make the longits 6" taller for extra strength.

Do you really think i need to go right back to the transom? Might sound like a stupid question/ a bit gash, but the longits are absolutely fine back there up to about 3' forward from the engine bulkhead. One possibility considered was to make new ones from there (they have to have a join there anyway due to the length of a sheet of ply) and then re-glass. This way the engine would drop straight back in when i'm done, which would knock masses of time and cost off the project without (in mine and John's opinion) really affecting the strength or affectivness of the finished job? Cost is a big factor for me.
At the moment there's a total join in all 3 longits 3 ft from the engine bulkhead, so anything's gotta be better than that! I'd be looking to stagger the join with one new piece starting at the bulkhead, and the other 3ft up, that way I could do the remaining length of stringer from one sheet of ply.
As much as I'd love to do this as a money no object build, i have to consider my (low) budget. That said I am determined it'll be done properly, i just don't want to go further than i really have to.

As for the engine, my intention is to keep the blower, but keep it on low boost, just to give it that little bit more kick. I need to be doing low 70's, and I know she didn't used to do that with around 400hp. IMO, the engine will be more reliable with the blower on low boost to give a little extra, than if i try to tune it to higher NA power. I have a friend over here who ran this blower for years with no issues who's happy to help me in the right direction, plus I love the look and sound of the blower.

Thanks very much for the help so far everyone, it's vital to me being able to chat this stuff through with others who know what they're talking about!

Cheers, James

dowdy · 03-01-2010, 09:03 PM

COMPARISONS FOR B.B.C. Already been there James,as Marauder,in Howards Way and against a Puma cat funnily enough.

larby · 03-01-2010, 09:04 PM

Dowdy - are you meaning splash her?? As she could currently be straighter, i really don't think that'd be a great idea, and for the cost, I could probably buy a new hull which would be a lot less hassle! Unless I'm hearing you wrong?
Thanks for always being there with an alternative idea though!!

James

Jon Fuller · 03-01-2010, 09:15 PM

Like I said, that's my say.

If the thickness and integrity of the hull skin, specifically in the spray rail area was inadequate, which I think we can say it was, why do you think that will be any better rear of the bulkhead?

Be carefull of adding transverse bulkheads if the skin is floppy, they'll create hard spots / hinges, just like they did in 1995 when it cracked down the fwd bulkhead and tore ferkin great chunks of topsides out. Thats why I suggested longitudinal topside stiffening, and hull to deck supports.