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Old 04-09-2010, 09:24 PM   #1
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Trim tabs on a Cougar 225 inboard.

1,Would it be worth fitting trim tabs to my inboard Cougar 225

2,What would be the advantage

3, What angle of motion would they need to move in degree from full up to full down.

4, Can anyone suggest a size width front, width rear and length for the tabs.

Look forward to any replys

David
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Old 05-09-2010, 08:22 AM   #2
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Advantage: Allows you to alter the attitude of the boat with something other than the motor. Can keep the bow in the drink in the rough, can also be used to correct a list, though correct setup should help with this too. I wouldn't be without the ones on my revenger, nothing else would dial out that prop torque!

Angle of motion, not sure. About 20 degrees full down I guess, maybe 10 degrees up? Are you mounting them horizontal, or parallel to the hull?

Size, I think the rule of thumb is 2" for every foot of length of the boat, though several people are less. Probably about 10" wide would do, maybe taper by a couple of inches?

All just in my opinion of course!!

James
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Old 05-09-2010, 08:50 AM   #3
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re tabs

Would that be 54inch tabs? for the couger .Thinking of fitting them on my p21 would they be an advantage to a p21.
Thanks Nick.
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Old 05-09-2010, 01:56 PM   #4
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Yeah, sorry, meant one inch for each foot of length.
P21 shouldn't need them, but they would be very effective. A friend runs that setup.

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Old 05-09-2010, 03:45 PM   #5
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Trim tab size

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Originally Posted by larby View Post
Yeah, sorry, meant one inch for each foot of length.
P21 shouldn't need them, but they would be very effective. A friend runs that setup.

James
The hull length is wetted length is 25ft so that would mean 25 inches long, still sounds a lot. As for orientation would fit them with the rise of the hull because I am very limited by the vertical height as in effect the hull has a built in extension drive box.

Mercury do some K-Plane 150S tabs for 21-30ft boats, I need t find the dimensions of those.
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Old 05-09-2010, 05:22 PM   #6
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They are big on Apache phanton 20 and i would not be without them.was out today and it was rough and it stablised the boat,other advantages is you can plain at slow speeds.
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Old 05-09-2010, 05:26 PM   #7
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Cougar trim tabs

I think this really depends on your driving style and needs. Taking your engine power into consideration, in my opinion you are probably better off saving your money. Or at least wait until you have tried the boat on the water.

Cougar fitted trim tabs on the very first 225 Hulls but they did not work and were removed. Apparently they kept breaking.

I've raced these hulls in brutal seas & strong beam on winds, in those conditions yes trim tabs would have made my life easier. But that said these hulls are unbelievably good in rough weather; fill the bow tank, trim down and they fly true and level although there are many photo's that will contradict that. I found they suffer in strong beam on winds at any speed, they can list heavily. Over long distance cruising that would be uncomfortable so in that situation they are a must have. By fitting an inboard you have already improved things, you also have one of the heavier hulls so unless you are planning to go out when it is rough and windy on a long cruise don't waste your money.

The only Cougar 27 that has had them successfully fitted is in Norway (image attached). I originally tested this boat at close to 85mph. I did not really get the opportunity to test the tabs properly but the owner assures me they work well and worth the the $2500 investment.

I can't remember the make but if you are still serious about fitting them I will find out, the image should give you a good idea of size.

Good luck, hope this info is of use.
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Old 05-09-2010, 06:41 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Paul C View Post
I think this really depends on your driving style and needs. Taking your engine power into consideration, in my opinion you are probably better off saving your money. Or at least wait until you have tried the boat on the water.

Cougar fitted trim tabs on the very first 225 Hulls but they did not work and were removed. Apparently they kept breaking.

I've raced these hulls in brutal seas & strong beam on winds, in those conditions yes trim tabs would have made my life easier. But that said these hulls are unbelievably good in rough weather; fill the bow tank, trim down and they fly true and level although there are many photo's that will contradict that. I found they suffer in strong beam on winds at any speed, they can list heavily. Over long distance cruising that would be uncomfortable so in that situation they are a must have. By fitting an inboard you have already improved things, you also have one of the heavier hulls so unless you are planning to go out when it is rough and windy on a long cruise don't waste your money.

The only Cougar 27 that has had them successfully fitted is in Norway (image attached). I originally tested this boat at close to 85mph. I did not really get the opportunity to test the tabs properly but the owner assures me they work well and worth the the $2500 investment.

I can't remember the make but if you are still serious about fitting them I will find out, the image should give you a good idea of size.

Good luck, hope this info is of use.
Hi Paul and many thanks for the excellent reply, they photo's are great. I think they are an very underrated hull and gained a bad reputation for rolling over due to the top heavy engine. I have seen them race with the new Mercury engine and it totally transformed the boat.

My intention for the boat is pleasure, poker runs and depending on how well it performs may be some basic class racing. Cost it not an issue as I do a lot of design fabrication and welding and am going to make my own as I have made everything else. I would be very great full if you could get me the planing tab dimensions ie width front and rear and length. I also notice it has a jack plate fitted and would be curios to know at what height from the centre of the prop to the bottom of the hull runs best for speed.

Look forward to your reply

Kind regards David
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Old 05-09-2010, 08:40 PM   #9
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David,

Totally agree a very under rated hull. I will go so far to say that there is nothing out there that will come close to competing with this hull in rough conditions accept something a lot bigger and heavier! Make no mistake this hull comes with a health warning. It is an extremely technical boat to handle and rewards those who get it right and punishes those who get it wrong. Marmite springs to mind..! you will love it or hate it.

Myself and many others will will be interested in knowing how it will handle with an inboard. The one in Norway might soon be fitted with a Mercury 525 EFI, the owner is hoping for 100mph..! A brave man. Give me a few days and I will find out the make and dimensions of the trim tabs.

Can't be exact on the prop height but I'm confident the centre line of the prop shaft was level with the bottom of the rear step. That's considerably higher than the P1 superstock and it was also on a glassy smooth fjord.
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Old 06-09-2010, 10:46 AM   #10
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David,

Totally agree a very under rated hull. I will go so far to say that there is nothing out there that will come close to competing with this hull in rough conditions accept something a lot bigger and heavier! Make no mistake this hull comes with a health warning. It is an extremely technical boat to handle and rewards those who get it right and punishes those who get it wrong. Marmite springs to mind..! you will love it or hate it.

Myself and many others will will be interested in knowing how it will handle with an inboard. The one in Norway might soon be fitted with a Mercury 525 EFI, the owner is hoping for 100mph..! A brave man. Give me a few days and I will find out the make and dimensions of the trim tabs.

Can't be exact on the prop height but I'm confident the centre line of the prop shaft was level with the bottom of the rear step. That's considerably higher than the P1 superstock and it was also on a glassy smooth fjord.
Mercury 525 conversion. Was just looking up the specs for the 525EFI. Not to sure he would gain a lot over the Optimax.

The 525 is 550kg base weight
100kg drive,
I would estimate 75kg for hull modifications and strengthening
50% mote fuel load say 50kg

Total 775kg for inboard

Optimax 300xs 229kg

Total added weight with 525efi 546Kg

IMHO I am not sure with half a ton of extra weight it would be any faster and even with a shorty bottom I suspect he won’t get the prop higher that 5.5in below the bottom of rear step adding extra drag. I suspect also that with an extra half a ton of weight in the rear it will screw the longitudinal C of G
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Old 08-09-2010, 07:42 PM   #11
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Mercury 525 conversion. Was just looking up the specs for the 525EFI. Not to sure he would gain a lot over the Optimax.

The 525 is 550kg base weight
100kg drive,
I would estimate 75kg for hull modifications and strengthening
50% mote fuel load say 50kg

Total 775kg for inboard

Optimax 300xs 229kg

Total added weight with 525efi 546Kg

IMHO I am not sure with half a ton of extra weight it would be any faster and even with a shorty bottom I suspect he won’t get the prop higher that 5.5in below the bottom of rear step adding extra drag. I suspect also that with an extra half a ton of weight in the rear it will screw the longitudinal C of G
And that would expain why he has now decided to modify his 300XS to 360bhp
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Old 08-09-2010, 07:53 PM   #12
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David,

Below is link to the 23'' trim tabs used on the Cougar 27 Hull in Norway. There should be enough info there to help you out.

http://www.hardin-marine.com/c-1409-trim-tab-kits.aspx

Regards

Paul
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Old 14-09-2010, 11:41 AM   #13
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David,

Below is link to the 23'' trim tabs used on the Cougar 27 Hull in Norway. There should be enough info there to help you out.

http://www.hardin-marine.com/c-1409-trim-tab-kits.aspx

Regards

Paul
Many thanks for that Paul
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Old 14-09-2010, 07:49 PM   #14
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helpful?

http://boatmad.com/forum/showthread.php?t=15294
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Old 23-09-2010, 01:12 AM   #15
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And that would expain why he has now decided to modify his 300XS to 360bhp
If he realy wants to 100mph the best engine would be a Rolls Royce Allison gas turbine, 450 bhp and 70Kg in weight mounted on th origanal leg.

http://marineturbine.com/images-projects/Full/BR05.jpg
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Old 25-09-2010, 10:53 AM   #16
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If he realy wants to 100mph the best engine would be a Rolls Royce Allison gas turbine, 450 bhp and 70Kg in weight mounted on th origanal leg.

http://marineturbine.com/images-projects/Full/BR05.jpg
Don't think he will be up grading just yet - The Cougar spat him out last week whilst testing a new prop! Thinks it was his own fault but can't be 100% sure as he was found unconcious by a couple of fisherman. His navigator was okay but he suffered bad leg injuries. The boat is up and running and suffered minimal damage.

By the way does that turbine really work?
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Old 26-09-2010, 06:43 PM   #17
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Don't think he will be up grading just yet - The Cougar spat him out last week whilst testing a new prop! Thinks it was his own fault but can't be 100% sure as he was found unconcious by a couple of fisherman. His navigator was okay but he suffered bad leg injuries. The boat is up and running and suffered minimal damage.

By the way does that turbine really work?
Hi Paul, sorry to hear about their accident and I wish them both a speedy recovery. Would be interesting to know the cause of the roll over was as this is the first I have heard of one rolling with the mercury engines, as far as I understood the engine change had cured the problem.

I see what you mean that it comes with a health warning. I am trying to mount everything as low as is possible to give a low C of G, the bottom of the engine sump is about 3 1/2 inches up from the bottom of the hull V and all ancillaries ie battery, heat exchanger, charge cooler, sea strainer etc are as low as possible. Even the engine cover is under half the weigh of the original rear cover, I hope all these mods will make the difference that is needed to stop its tendency to roll. Time will tell

As for the turbine outboard and whether it runs , MTT state the following on there web site.

"As a response to military requirements, MTT designed and built the first turbine-powered outboard motor. The MTT Turbine Outboard was demonstrated to the US Military in an effort to assist them in fulfilling their mandate that all equipment aboard military ships must transition from gasoline (a more volatile fuel than diesel). The outboard was used to power a landing craft carrying a S.E.A.L. Delivery Vessel (pictured above) and other vehicles, performing with amazing results"
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Old 26-09-2010, 09:20 PM   #18
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That outboard is quite simply the most incredible thing I've ever seen!!! I want, no, NEED one!!

James
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Old 26-09-2010, 11:23 PM   #19
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That outboard is quite simply the most incredible thing I've ever seen!!! I want, no, NEED one!!

James
Here you go James, just a few more links to wet your appetite.

http://www.marineturbine.com/press/misc/power.pdf

http://www.texs.com/magazine/tsg_13.htm

In all honesty the Allinson C250 series engine can be a bit delicate and I am not sure that if you started jumping the boat and prop out of the water how well the power turbine governor would react in stopping the engine revving into oblivion. Nearly all the boat applications have seen have been on lakes or in calm conditions.

David
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Old 27-09-2010, 06:50 AM   #20
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Cool! Don't think it'd bequite right for local waters. Cool idea though.

I love the idea of a turbine boat, all that power from such little weight, but I'm told (and can imagine!) they don't take well to salt water. That rules em out for me then!!

James
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