Boatmad.com


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 02-09-2008, 08:02 PM   #21
Senior Member
 
OCRDA's Avatar
 
Country: UK
Location: Devon
Occupation: Garage Proprietor
Interests: PowerBoat Racing
Boat name: If Only
Boat make: Bernico F3 OCR, Bernico Prototype Inboard, and some Ribs
Engines: Yamaha Pro V 115
Cruising area: UK, France

Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Devon
Posts: 3,095
Quote:
Originally Posted by 24Maniac View Post
Class 3B has upgraded to 1760cc due to the lack of old 2 strokes. The Yamaha 90 is not sold in europe sins 2007 !
So to make the Class big again the UIM had to find a new engine that would be competitive in 3B.
And I think that the new engines may be the savior of the class.
The E-Tec 115 is homologated.
1760cc would be perfect for you in the UK. The Backdraft 22 is probably a great boat and allso Phantoms.
Twister in Finland is manufacturing great cats that would be perfect!

Thats what I said "Not enough thought gone into it yet again" !! Yamaha 90's are not only still available (for Racing/Commercial use) thay are also reasonably priced. there is also the 90 TLDI Tohatsu, Mercs, 90 Etec etc. so plenty of epa alternatives !!

I will ask again "How are the UIM / RYA planning to control HP ??

Bob
__________________

__________________
If Only
National Outboard Immersed Propeller Mono Record 103mph
OCRDA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2008, 10:37 PM   #22
Traveling
 
Country: UK
Location: Alderholt
Occupation: Aerospace
Boat name: T/T D2S
Boat make: Midas 27' Cat, Argo 16 Cat. Avon Rib Thingy
Engines: Merc 280-ROS -JSRE,65Xs, 75 Stinger, Yam 60
Cruising area: Any Seedy Bar

Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Alderholt
Posts: 4,225
FWIW going the UIM route ain't gonna cut the cheese. It's about getting the P16, P18, Argos ect & a few of the old raceboats out of there domestic lifestyle
Sticking "new" 115's on the back & driving up the price isn't going to light the touch paper. I will just make all those that have a 90 now & could just do it make a 180 turn.
Keep it simple keep it cheap nowt wrong with a good 2nd hand motor.
__________________

__________________
It is impossible to lick your elbow.

Team25Racing.com

At least 75% of people who read this will try to lick their elbow!
BluFin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2008, 01:14 AM   #23
Registered User
 
stumpy's Avatar
 
Country: England
Location: colnbrook
Occupation: Transport Consultant
Interests: Powerboat racing, Ice hockey and aviation.
Boat name: Vines BMW
Boat make: B23
Engines: Evinrude 115HO
Cruising area: South coast

Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: colnbrook
Posts: 221
P16's, 18's and smaller argos great for OCR!!!!!!!

Desperate to spout off now, but don't feel it is an appropriate time!!!!

FYI , I will be running a Green engine next year.
stumpy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2008, 06:31 AM   #24
Registered User
 
Country: Sweden
Boat make: Argo 18
Engines: Yamaha

Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by OCRDA View Post
What a strange Spec !! I wonder how they propose to control that !!

Bob
They are going to control it the same way as in 3C by applying the 735.34 UIM rule.
and allso the engines has to be homologed with UIM!
24Maniac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2008, 07:49 AM   #25
Registered User
 
Country: Sweden
Boat make: Argo 18
Engines: Yamaha

Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by stumpy View Post
P16's, 18's and smaller argos great for OCR!!!!!!!

Desperate to spout off now, but don't feel it is an appropriate time!!!!

FYI , I will be running a Green engine next year.
Which Engine have you chosen!?
24Maniac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2008, 08:09 AM   #26
Registered User
 
Country: Sweden
Boat make: Argo 18
Engines: Yamaha

Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by BluFin View Post
FWIW going the UIM route ain't gonna cut the cheese. It's about getting the P16, P18, Argos ect & a few of the old raceboats out of there domestic lifestyle
Sticking "new" 115's on the back & driving up the price isn't going to light the touch paper. I will just make all those that have a 90 now & could just do it make a 180 turn.
Keep it simple keep it cheap nowt wrong with a good 2nd hand motor.
The Yamaha 90hp is a great engine!
If you can find a fine used one that is bluprinted and ready it´s a very cheap way to get started!
(I know that there is a few good ones for sale in Sweden and Norway both engines and ready to race boats.)
But to get the class going in to the future, I think that the new EPA ruls i great!
You can now with the incresed cc and torq drive bigger boats that is more suited for Offshore, and still have a competitive race speed!
With the new engines I think that you could push 22-23ft boats in around 60 knots!
Just my opinion
24Maniac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2008, 09:09 AM   #27
Senior Member
 
OCRDA's Avatar
 
Country: UK
Location: Devon
Occupation: Garage Proprietor
Interests: PowerBoat Racing
Boat name: If Only
Boat make: Bernico F3 OCR, Bernico Prototype Inboard, and some Ribs
Engines: Yamaha Pro V 115
Cruising area: UK, France

Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Devon
Posts: 3,095
New 90 yams are still readily available !! Which engines are Homologated ??Does it really matter what colour they are Matt ??
__________________
If Only
National Outboard Immersed Propeller Mono Record 103mph
OCRDA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2008, 09:12 AM   #28
Registered User
 
Scand's Avatar
 
Location: West Coast of Norway
Occupation: naval architect
Interests: surface piercing props, stepped hulls, air entrapment hulls
Boat name: none
Boat make: PetterTintorera
Engines: Yamaha 90
Cruising area: West Coast of Norway

Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: West Coast of Norway
Posts: 888
Quote:
Originally Posted by OCRDA View Post
New 90 yams are still readily available !! Which engines are Homologated ??Does it really matter what colour they are Matt ??
What would the price of a new yamaha 90 in the UK then?
Scand is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2008, 09:25 AM   #29
Senior Member
 
OCRDA's Avatar
 
Country: UK
Location: Devon
Occupation: Garage Proprietor
Interests: PowerBoat Racing
Boat name: If Only
Boat make: Bernico F3 OCR, Bernico Prototype Inboard, and some Ribs
Engines: Yamaha Pro V 115
Cruising area: UK, France

Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Devon
Posts: 3,095
I have asked for a price !! I would expect it to be about £4700 ish !!

The argument being that it will not be quite as quick as a 115 AND 3b IS 1.3ltr !!

Its as daft as allowing 2.5's into 2Ltr !!

It would be as well now to just have 1.6 & 3.2Ltr Throughout Powerboat Racing (with some smaller junior classes and some bigger "look how big my wallet is" Classes)

The Obvious change would have been to include 1600cc 4 Strokes thus keeping the class at 90ish h.p.

presumably Sweden have already worked out how to re-programme the etec ecu's !!

Bob
__________________
If Only
National Outboard Immersed Propeller Mono Record 103mph
OCRDA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2008, 06:50 PM   #30
Registered User
 
Country: Wales
Location: West Wales
Boat make: O****y Vipermax 5.8
Engines: 150 Opti

Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: West Wales
Posts: 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by OCRDA View Post
I have asked for a price !! I would expect it to be about £4700 ish !!

The argument being that it will not be quite as quick as a 115 AND 3b IS 1.3ltr !!
A 115 Opti would only be around £5000 - £5500, so not much more than a 90 Yam on carbs. Don't know how much the 115 etec would be - maybe around £6k?

Mad formula though 90hp v 115hp or 1300cc v 1760cc
Downhilldai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2008, 11:18 PM   #31
..
 

Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,567
Quote:
Originally Posted by Downhilldai View Post

Mad formula though 90hp v 115hp or 1300cc v 1760cc
So can someone confirm whether a 3B mono boat running an older Yam 90hp engine would have a minimum weight of 595kg or 655kg when running against the same boat with a "GREEN" 115 ?? (chart below from page 169 UIM Rules)

Also can anyone confirm if there is a driver / naviator minimum combined weight of 170kg ???
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	uim.jpg
Views:	151
Size:	65.4 KB
ID:	17422  
Foolish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2008, 08:52 AM   #32
Senior Member
 
OCRDA's Avatar
 
Country: UK
Location: Devon
Occupation: Garage Proprietor
Interests: PowerBoat Racing
Boat name: If Only
Boat make: Bernico F3 OCR, Bernico Prototype Inboard, and some Ribs
Engines: Yamaha Pro V 115
Cruising area: UK, France

Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Devon
Posts: 3,095
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foolish View Post
So can someone confirm whether a 3B mono boat running an older Yam 90hp engine would have a minimum weight of 595kg or 655kg when running against the same boat with a "GREEN" 115 ?? (chart below from page 169 UIM Rules)

Also can anyone confirm if there is a driver / naviator minimum combined weight of 170kg ???
Yes !! 595kg Min Weight for 3b Mono !! It seems they are running as 2 seperate classes, which would make perfect sense (if there were a dozen or more in each)

Presumably you will need a heavier crew in 3b epa !! These people are obviously not racers !!

Good luck with it I am sure it will be very fair.

Bob
__________________
If Only
National Outboard Immersed Propeller Mono Record 103mph
OCRDA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2008, 08:53 AM   #33
Senior Member
 
OCRDA's Avatar
 
Country: UK
Location: Devon
Occupation: Garage Proprietor
Interests: PowerBoat Racing
Boat name: If Only
Boat make: Bernico F3 OCR, Bernico Prototype Inboard, and some Ribs
Engines: Yamaha Pro V 115
Cruising area: UK, France

Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Devon
Posts: 3,095
PS Does anyone know how they will control it ??

Bob
__________________
If Only
National Outboard Immersed Propeller Mono Record 103mph
OCRDA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2008, 09:09 AM   #34
Senior Member
 
Adam's Avatar
 
Country: England
Location: Warsash
Occupation: Boat Designer
Interests: sport
Boat name: Santana

Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Warsash
Posts: 1,838
New rules look pretty good to me!

I think the UIM reacted to the class dying out and have made some positive moves to get it going again and given a new life.

- 3B has not had any interest in this country for some years now and has not been raced
- Other countries were also seeing smaller numbers of competitors racing
- Racing does have to go to epa engines - and thus engines that are for sale by manufacturers now and for the future.
- not good saying 3B is 1.3Litre and 3C is 2Litre. This has all changed and have to move with the times.

I could be interested in racing with a 115 engine - whilst I probably would not with an old 90hp. Racing is never going to be cheap - with cost of entries, travelling, licences etc - so the extra cost of the 115 looks good value to me.

However feel sorry for people who 90hp 3B rigs and although I'm sure they can still race at National level - it is a lot of hp to be giving away!
__________________
www.adamyoungerdesign.com
Adam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2008, 10:02 AM   #35
Registered User
 
Country: Sweden
Boat make: Argo 18
Engines: Yamaha

Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by OCRDA View Post
Yes !! 595kg Min Weight for 3b Mono !! It seems they are running as 2 seperate classes, which would make perfect sense (if there were a dozen or more in each)

Presumably you will need a heavier crew in 3b epa !! These people are obviously not racers !!

Good luck with it I am sure it will be very fair.

Bob
3B is one class!!!!!
only different weight requierments, and it's the same crew weight 170kg!
24Maniac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2008, 11:49 AM   #36
Registered User
 
Country: Sweden
Boat make: Argo 18
Engines: Yamaha

Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by OCRDA View Post
I have asked for a price !! I would expect it to be about £4700 ish !!

The argument being that it will not be quite as quick as a 115 AND 3b IS 1.3ltr !!

Its as daft as allowing 2.5's into 2Ltr !!

It would be as well now to just have 1.6 & 3.2Ltr Throughout Powerboat Racing (with some smaller junior classes and some bigger "look how big my wallet is" Classes)

The Obvious change would have been to include 1600cc 4 Strokes thus keeping the class at 90ish h.p.

presumably Sweden have already worked out how to re-programme the etec ecu's !!
Bob
I see no need to be RUDE on this forum !!!!!

The biggest advance with these new EPA engines is that you don´t have to tamper with them!
You are not allowed to!!!
The one that does,should be punished according to Sharia Laws!
24Maniac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2008, 11:52 AM   #37
Registered User
 
Country: Sweden
Boat make: Argo 18
Engines: Yamaha

Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by OCRDA View Post
I have asked for a price !! I would expect it to be about £4700 ish !!

The argument being that it will not be quite as quick as a 115 AND 3b IS 1.3ltr !!

Its as daft as allowing 2.5's into 2Ltr !!

It would be as well now to just have 1.6 & 3.2Ltr Throughout Powerboat Racing (with some smaller junior classes and some bigger "look how big my wallet is" Classes)

The Obvious change would have been to include 1600cc 4 Strokes thus keeping the class at 90ish h.p.
presumably Sweden have already worked out how to re-programme the etec ecu's !!

Bob
Tests have shown that the 90hp 4 strokes have no chans against the yam 90!
And sinse the class have to be renewed they changed to 1760cc and 115hp
24Maniac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2008, 11:56 AM   #38
Registered User
 
Scand's Avatar
 
Location: West Coast of Norway
Occupation: naval architect
Interests: surface piercing props, stepped hulls, air entrapment hulls
Boat name: none
Boat make: PetterTintorera
Engines: Yamaha 90
Cruising area: West Coast of Norway

Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: West Coast of Norway
Posts: 888
A blue printed Yamaha 90hp was about 115hp?
Scand is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2008, 12:50 AM   #39
Registered User
 
Country: Wales
Location: West Wales
Boat make: O****y Vipermax 5.8
Engines: 150 Opti

Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: West Wales
Posts: 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scand View Post
A blue printed Yamaha 90hp was about 115hp?
And I don't suppose anyone has blueprinted a 4-stroke 90, so there wouldn't be a 'like for like' comparison
Downhilldai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2008, 06:31 AM   #40
Registered User
 
Country: Sweden
Boat make: Argo 18
Engines: Yamaha

Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Downhilldai View Post
And I don't suppose anyone has blueprinted a 4-stroke 90, so there wouldn't be a 'like for like' comparison
You are not allowed to according to the EPA regulations !
And that is the best with the EPA rules!
You don't have to have your cylinder head faced and blueprinted!
One big problem with the 4 strokes is the gear rotation. You have to run very high pitched props, and since the 4 strokes lacks torq it's aproblem getting your boat out of the hole !
But you can just ask your Honda racers in the UK !
And I would not want to flip my boat with a 4 stroke on full throttle. I presume that the valves and lifters would not like it when the water comes rushing in !?
__________________

24Maniac is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

« p1 | K Class ???? »
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT +1. The time now is 02:33 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
×