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Old 29-12-2010, 09:55 AM   #61
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i bet she doesn't weigh over 8 tonnes though (dry)
Just shows the progress made in design.When Gee and Gipsy Girl were built they were considered the state of the art rough weather machines.Could bash through anything,yet even in the rough 1971 race Gee averaged 24mph and Unohoo with half the power and shorter length averaged nearly 37mph and both were cabin boats.
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Old 29-12-2010, 09:59 AM   #62
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Sounds like wev`e arrived at a point where the performance envelope is being pushed to extremes (25 mph to 90+mph) depending on weather conditions,and todays organization is being pushed to the limit to cope,with lack of safety boats and time spent out there.

Difficult to organise a sweep system,and if you started historics early,still need more time out there marshalling.I thought the idea of marathon was to always be self sufficent anyway,and with todays tracker technology,I would have thought for the odd slower boat exceeding 6hrs,they could be tracked, with a rib on standby in sheltered waters as a backup.(say Portland to home)
i agree with all you have said, with every other boat playing catchup it could only get more safe as the day progressed, RB08 just by the nature of the race couldn't of had boat cover all the way.
Gee has always been self sufficent and has to date never failed to get home, she also has a fairly comprehensive insurance policy in place even when racing, which is good as she's always filled with people
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Old 29-12-2010, 10:02 AM   #63
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Wink

Back from New York now. 6 hours from arriving at the aeroplane to take off, half catering, no baggage, de-iced twice, matchsticks in the eyes by the 1600 landing time at Heathrow having been awake for 35 hours. Now I know why I go powerboat racing for relaxation!!
How about a different approach; rather than change anything could we still be noted as completing the race even if we are outside the time limit? As we are 'Marathon' could it be accepted that all the official paraphernalia of racing (safety boats etc) are less relevant and as long as there is someone to note us cross the finish line that would be sufficient?
The problem is very limited, ie one small part of one class(pre 1970/sub 50 knot designs). We are really more of an 'exhibition' entry than anything, "there for the beer" and I don't think we need a 'major solution' to a minor problem.
Just my thoughts......

cheers Jonathan
ps Hi Biff
pps Saw Jeff at crew report Jon, he said what a nice chap you were
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Old 29-12-2010, 10:11 AM   #64
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morning mate, glad you got back, i've found quite a good solar bilge pump for your other toy, i knew i could trust you to come up with the best solution
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Old 29-12-2010, 10:14 AM   #65
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pps Saw Jeff at crew report Jon, he said what a nice chap you were
Clearly a very poor judge of character.
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Old 29-12-2010, 10:20 AM   #66
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He did have a sort of demented gleam in his eye!
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Old 29-12-2010, 10:21 AM   #67
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He did have a sort of demented gleam in his eye!
Probably still drunk on all that travelling at Mach II he's done!
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Old 29-12-2010, 10:38 AM   #68
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Just shows the progress made in design.When Gee and Gipsy Girl were built they were considered the state of the art rough weather machines.Could bash through anything,yet even in the rough 1971 race Gee averaged 24mph and Unohoo with half the power and shorter length averaged nearly 37mph and both were cabin boats.
true enough, that was 44 years ago, who'd have thought she would still be at it.
now to take a saying from Mr Fuller, i've said my bit now i've got to do the work, well have a clear up in the work shop actually
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Old 29-12-2010, 05:19 PM   #69
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Quote:
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Sounds like wev`e arrived at a point where the performance envelope is being pushed to extremes (25 mph to 90+mph) depending on weather conditions,and todays organization is being pushed to the limit to cope,with lack of safety boats and time spent out there.

Difficult to organise a sweep system,and if you started historics early,still need more time out there marshalling.I thought the idea of marathon was to always be self sufficent anyway,and with todays tracker technology,I would have thought for the odd slower boat exceeding 6hrs,they could be tracked, with a rib on standby in sheltered waters as a backup.(say Portland to home)
I think that Graham (FF) has identified some of the problems.
One of which is: Time - We have to have timekeeper/s out on the course start/finish for the duration of the (extended limit) race.
Added to this, the prize giving has always traditionally been the same same evening (day) as the race.
There is much more work than most would imagine in ensuring that the correct awards go to the correct recipients. (No, we don't always get it right, before someone says so !). This too takes time of course.
I can remember some years when attending prize giving, that late finishers were still coming across the line, but outside the imposed limit.
In order to get the prize giving completed by a reasonable time, there has to be a cut off, after which boats cannot be counted as finishers, sadly.

The other factor is Volunteer Officials. - Not only the valued timekeepers, but as mentioned by others, the safety boat crews. We consider that, with finances stretched still more in 2011, it will not be eay getting volunteers, still harder to get any crew to agree to stay out, miss the "jolly's", & stay there to cover for late boats.
The idea of starting classics early has, imho, some merit, but one has to work with the "facilities" at hand.

Therefore, while Jonathon's plea needs consideration I agree, I think we must all be greatful that we can consider running the race in such straightened times, & leave the details to be considered as & when the ability to finance/cover them becomes available, sadly.
We do not live in an ideal world, as you all will agree.
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Old 30-12-2010, 08:53 AM   #70
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I think that Graham (FF) has identified some of the problems.
One of which is: Time - We have to have timekeeper/s out on the course start/finish for the duration of the (extended limit) race.
Added to this, the prize giving has always traditionally been the same same evening (day) as the race.
There is much more work than most would imagine in ensuring that the correct awards go to the correct recipients. (No, we don't always get it right, before someone says so !). This too takes time of course.
I can remember some years when attending prize giving, that late finishers were still coming across the line, but outside the imposed limit.
In order to get the prize giving completed by a reasonable time, there has to be a cut off, after which boats cannot be counted as finishers, sadly.

The other factor is Volunteer Officials. - Not only the valued timekeepers, but as mentioned by others, the safety boat crews. We consider that, with finances stretched still more in 2011, it will not be eay getting volunteers, still harder to get any crew to agree to stay out, miss the "jolly's", & stay there to cover for late boats.
The idea of starting classics early has, imho, some merit, but one has to work with the "facilities" at hand.

Therefore, while Jonathon's plea needs consideration I agree, I think we must all be greatful that we can consider running the race in such straightened times, & leave the details to be considered as & when the ability to finance/cover them becomes available, sadly.
We do not live in an ideal world, as you all will agree.
oh well!
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Old 30-12-2010, 09:39 AM   #71
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I have to say Martin, that's quite a '180'. have you been "got at"?

It would be a shame if the organisers saw themselves as so indispensable (in a pied piper kind'a way), that they no longer felt the instinctive need to please those who actually make the event (the participants), or to keep it attractive.

People like Jonathan Napier (lets not forget, the cost of race entry, fuel, accommodation etc is only a part of his 'Cowes cost', he has to drag the boat all the way from, and back to, the South of France!) need to see this as a pleasure that outweighs the cost, aggro etc.

Is it REALLY going to be so hard to let a hand full of boats start 1 hour earlier? I think not.
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Old 30-12-2010, 10:33 AM   #72
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Just as a thought, is there not a Marathon race on the Saturday because if there is would it not be possible to start the vintage race boats off with the Cowes 100 and have them race down to Torquay, their will be safety cover to Portland for the 100 and surly someone can arrange a boat or two at the other end for safety and timing them in, might even generate some publicity the other end in the local news, and whence their I'm sure they can organise their own small get together. And then set them off again at a suitable time on the Sunday in order for them to cross the line with the other Cowes finishers from the CTC ... This way the ole boaties get to party at Torquay on the Saturday night and then again on their return
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Old 30-12-2010, 10:35 AM   #73
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now thats a good idea
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Old 30-12-2010, 11:10 AM   #74
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I have to say Martin, that's quite a '180'. have you been "got at"?

It would be a shame if the organisers saw themselves as so indispensable (in a pied piper kind'a way), that they no longer felt the instinctive need to please those who actually make the event (the participants), or to keep it attractive.

People like Jonathan Napier (lets not forget, the cost of race entry, fuel, accommodation etc is only a part of his 'Cowes cost', he has to drag the boat all the way from, and back to, the South of France!) need to see this as a pleasure that outweighs the cost, aggro etc.

Is it REALLY going to be so hard to let a hand full of boats start 1 hour earlier? I think not.
Jon, i'm going to let it go, i'm going to wait and see what happen's, what they don't realise is, these old gent's with there old boats quitely sponser all kind's of things that go on that week end, if they're off doing their own thing that weekend their money and there boats will be somewhere else, I herd they got a good reception in torquay.
maybe an historic boat rally, i've talk to Jonathan and he just wants to be acknowledged for starting and finishing but that doesn't look like that will happen, as i said, oh well!
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Old 30-12-2010, 12:26 PM   #75
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now thats a good idea
Thank you Carl appreciated
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Old 30-12-2010, 01:28 PM   #76
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Thank you Carl appreciated
sorry, it was good input, i fear anything short of, give us you're money and shut up, wont cut the mustard
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Old 30-12-2010, 01:54 PM   #77
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All this business of numbers of marshal/safety boats and time spent out on patrol has always had me wondering just where are they these days.I would be intrigued to know just where,and how many a competitor passes between say Hurst and Torquay.

Every time I been to Anvil or Portland (and you can see a good 10-15 miles each way on a clear day),I`d be lucky to see the odd boat displaying a marshals flag.

Other than the job on being in radio contact,I always thought a visible contact should be achieved at certain points.

The reason I bring this up is because if today the racers are basically on their own,and trackers are even more important as a replacement for the visual contact,then are patrol boats a dying breed with the safety side being co -ordinated centrally to a few strategic points along the course.

I can appreciate most of the funds must go to the patrol boats who have to keep the dopey ragboats from feeling the need to tack across the start gate at the critical time,when it`s pretty obvious something is about to happen.

I can`t help but think of the scenario of a boat like Ocean Pirate chugging along on a 300mile leg of the Cowes- Monte Carlo,and taking the best part of a day to do it and repeat it day after day,and the organisers keeping tabs on it .Makes the CTC a dodle.
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Old 30-12-2010, 02:04 PM   #78
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isnt there supposed to be a ratio of safety boats to race boats
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Old 30-12-2010, 07:20 PM   #79
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All input much appreciated. I have to say the early start idea doesn't particularly appeal as that is the most exciting part for us! The next thing we see of any other boats is a blur passing us in the opposite direction when we are still only just past Portland.
The key to it personally speaking is to run as before but to avoid the dreaded DNF or DQ alongside the team name especially after the hammering we've just taken(Mike Lloyd came out for a run in the summer and said it was the hardest ride he'd ever experienced,fnarr fnarr). Marshal boats/RYA supervision/official sanction are all a side issue to me, I'd simply like to do the race and have a time/finish noted. Having dealt with the brick wall RYA I'm not sure of a way forward but as Graham says; How will it be dealt with in the Bay of Biscay??
All the best
Jonathan
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Old 30-12-2010, 08:54 PM   #80
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what happens at present when the allotted time runs out??
all the safety crews go home / prize giving??
so what happens to the boats that are still out there?? surely someone is making sure they are ok or that they are back???
can they not just get an approximate completion time rather than a DNF?? by reporting to someone once back at the finish??
Its no hastle at all really is it??
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