Event Licenses-Review Time ?

[Mike Lloyd]

For once I agree with you Gary.
Now that I am not a member of the ORC or the BPRC and therefore not under pressure to keep my mouth shut for fear of being banned, sent to Coventry, disbarred, disembowelled and then hung drawn and quartered, it is a pleasant experience to be able to say that everything that Gary and PKJB has said is right on the button, heaven help us all - long live the revolution!
ML.
.

[Numb Nuts]

For instance if I were to organise a race with reasonable insurance cover for competitors and the event, no lisences needed just entry fees to cover costs would you enter?

Would people be afraid of having there lisences revoked by our gouverning body?

Would people be afraid of being shunned by other competitors?

We have the boats, between us we have the know how is it really that scarey?

Just my thought for the evining.

Have fun in Torquay to that are racing and involved.

[Ben]

Originally Posted by Numb Nuts

For instance if I were to organise a race with reasonable insurance cover for competitors and the event, no lisences needed just entry fees to cover costs would you enter?

Would people be afraid of having there lisences revoked by our gouverning body?

Would people be afraid of being shunned by other competitors?

We have the boats, between us we have the know how is it really that scarey?

Just my thought for the evining.

Have fun in Torquay to that are racing and involved.

Do it!! If it works - fabulous. If it doesn't, at least someone will have tried to get away from that monstrous, self serving moneypit known as the RYA.

[OCRDA]

Originally Posted by Burty

Ok, so why cant you do that then?? do you insure your boats anyway for theft, towing, use when not racing??
The race part of our boat insurance bacially doubles the policy amount but if you have an accident during a race then they still pay out 75% of the claim!!!!

None of the Insurance companies will touch powerboat racing liability for individual boats !! Which is odd as it really is such a low risk.

Bob

[OCRDA]

Originally Posted by Numb Nuts

For instance if I were to organise a race with reasonable insurance cover for competitors and the event, no lisences needed just entry fees to cover costs would you enter?

Would people be afraid of having there lisences revoked by our gouverning body?

Would people be afraid of being shunned by other competitors?

We have the boats, between us we have the know how is it really that scarey?

Just my thought for the evining.

Have fun in Torquay to that are racing and involved.

Call me after the weekend !! All we need is some liability cover at the right price !!

[Johnny Rocket]

Piranha RIBs on Hayling Island are organising a non-RYA race - the Nab Dash - and they reckon that the insurance isn't a problem.

Might be worth a chat with them (even if they are ribnobbers!)

[Cookee]

Originally Posted by Johnny Rocket

Piranha RIBs on Hayling Island are organising a non-RYA race - the Nab Dash - and they reckon that the insurance isn't a problem.

Might be worth a chat with them (even if they are ribnobbers!)

They have said that competitors must have insurance cover for the race, whilst it is available (Bob got a quote and it's horrendous) I have never heard of anyone managing to insure a boat for racing - they said they would get back to everyone and all they have said is that it isn't a problem!

Looking forward to seeing how it turns out!

[Mike Lloyd]

Originally Posted by Johnny Rocket

Piranha RIBs on Hayling Island are organising a non-RYA race - the Nab Dash - and they reckon that the insurance isn't a problem.

Might be worth a chat with them (even if they are ribnobbers!)

Good for them , that sounds like a lot of fun. more clubs should try doing that.
Drivers?
ML.
.

[PKJB]

Originally Posted by Cookee

I have never heard of anyone managing to insure a boat for racing

When I raced (albeit a number of years ago now) our boat was insured for racing and we were told at the time that we were one of only 3 boats, the other two boats being John Clarke's Class 1 boat (Bigger Toys for Bigger Boys) and his daughter Tracey's 2 litre cat.

Our insurance was arranged through our sponsors who had a long history of links with both the marine industry and Lloyd's of London so was likely to be a very bespoke arrangement.

Not an unknown problem for either powerboats or sailing racing boats, for those with a long memory Simon LeBon's sailing boat DRUM was not insured for racing when the keel fell off !

[flightracingteam]

Hi Guys

The RYA Insurance that all racers and Clubs pay for at present is only Third Party Public Liability - it does not insure the boats themselves, nor does it insure the crews of the boats or the individual officials. All it is in place for is to cover damage to any item or person that a race boat or an official may cause damage to.

If you write off or damage your boats or you hit another race or race team you are not covered by the RYA Insurance policy. So all that needs to be sourced is a good Third Party Public Liability insurance. I have looked into this a few years back and it can be sourced - and compared to what you are all being charged at present - it is quite reasonable cost wise.

It is not cheap but nothing like the money the RYA are re-charging to you.

I will explain how the RYA arrive at their figures. The first thing that needs to be understood is that you have three paid staff working in the Powerboat Racing department. Their wages have to be covered. You then have the office overheads such as phones and other costs - you then have the staff and committee expenses and UIM expenses - this is just the starting point.

The RYA needs to cover all these costs in a world of diminishing returns. The only income the Powerboat dept gets is from your licences, measurement certificates and all the other bits and pieces they charge you for - and most importantly the biggie is what they charge "under the cover" of insurance.

So simply put, the RYA "load" the insurance premium to cover JP's wages, etc. So in plain talk you are paying something like 40%+ for your insurance to cover the Powerboat Racing departmental admin costs.

Kind regards
Gary Manchester

[Renegade]

Originally Posted by PKJB

Allegedly........ a general level of ignorance combined with a self serving attitude including significant conflicts of interest and with a high level of deceit and downright lies from individuals in positions of authority who appear to be making it up as they go along may also be having some effect :-)

I'll go with that one and then some!

[RichA (Lamont)]

If you are a current RYA or UIM licence holder, then you have agreed to abide by the rules and regulations imposed by these organisations. One of which is that you can not race in a non sanctioned event. They can and will apply penalties if you do so. Probably a five year ban from their racing events.

If you are not a member of these organisations, and you partake in a non-sanctioned race event, you are not in breach of their rules, and can not be sanctioned.

So essentially - if you wanted to race in a non-RYA english race series, you would need to ensure that you do not take up a RYA licence for that year. There are other possibilities to get around it, but essentially this is the easy part.

If you want to compete in an international event, such as Class 3 Europeans or an RYA organised even such as Cowes - Torquay they you would have to take up a RYA licence, and then have to abide by their rules.

For the majority of people this is not an issue. So if a series of non-RYA/UIM sanctioned races could be organised for 2011, and permissions from Harbourmasters/CoastGuard etc arranged, then those who wish to compete in 2011 would simply withdraw from the RYA for that year.

[MrG]

Originally Posted by flightracingteam

Hi Guys

The RYA Insurance that all racers and Clubs pay for at present is only Third Party Public Liability - it does not insure the boats themselves, nor does it insure the crews of the boats or the individual officials. All it is in place for is to cover damage to any item or person that a race boat or an official may cause damage to.

If you write off or damage your boats or you hit another race or race team you are not covered by the RYA Insurance policy. So all that needs to be sourced is a good Third Party Public Liability insurance. I have looked into this a few years back and it can be sourced - and compared to what you are all being charged at present - it is quite reasonable cost wise.

It is not cheap but nothing like the money the RYA are re-charging to you.

I will explain how the RYA arrive at their figures. The first thing that needs to be understood is that you have three paid staff working in the Powerboat Racing department. Their wages have to be covered. You then have the office overheads such as phones and other costs - you then have the staff and committee expenses and UIM expenses - this is just the starting point.

The RYA needs to cover all these costs in a world of diminishing returns. The only income the Powerboat dept gets is from your licences, measurement certificates and all the other bits and pieces they charge you for - and most importantly the biggie is what they charge "under the cover" of insurance.

So simply put, the RYA "load" the insurance premium to cover JP's wages, etc. So in plain talk you are paying something like 40%+ for your insurance to cover the Powerboat Racing departmental admin costs.

Kind regards
Gary Manchester

So, what about the lottery funding that goes to the RYA, is the powerboat dept exempt from getting ANY of that?

[Tony Davis]

I thought the "Lottery" had a policy of not funding motorsport.

[MrG]

Originally Posted by Tony Davis

I thought the "Lottery" had a policy of not funding motorsport.

They fund the RYA.....

[wanagofaster]

Interesting question bob about why people are not racing, I'm trying my best to get to what I can but ultimately from where I am all be it a relative newby , it all comes down to rules and money. I was alWays under the impression OCR was the working mans class but unfortunatly it's increasingly becoming a cheque book sport where normal people without big budgets don't stand a chance. Not from the clubs point of view I know but from the rya who from what I can see are killing it. From a simple working man like myself that just wants to race and i know there are others like me the best thing that could happen is ditch the crap that is the rya , stick to a rigid set off rules that everyone knows where they are and not having to change things every two seconds because the rules have changed and hopefully with that and the reduction in rediculous costs may just get more people out , more people the cheaper it gets . Just a point of view from an average joe who remembers as a kid being mesmerised by the old school OCR rocking into town in a load of old vans etc and for weeks before the whole town talking about nothing else , now even in my home town the powerboats can come , race and leave and nobody even knows they've been . Sad contrast, let the rya stick to what they are good at and deal with the boats with no engines and let the sport recover.

[Foolish]

Is it all about money ?

i wonder how many boats would actually turn up to a race with the offer of free entries and free licences ? ... just turn up with fuel in your tank and race

i doubt there would be many more than already attend

[OCRDA]

Originally Posted by Foolish

Is it all about money ?

i wonder how many boats would actually turn up to a race with the offer of free entries and free licences ? ... just turn up with fuel in your tank and race

i doubt there would be many more than already attend

Unfortunately It appears to be more about red tape than money !! I have had a text message from a new member that raced in Torquay that has given up due to: Quote
"If and when all the rubbish with the RYA rules etc are sorted and fingers crossed it costs a normal amount I would love to get into it again"

Strange though how only a couple of people actually have a reason for not competing.