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27-05-2010, 11:35 AM
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#1
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Registered User
Country: SOUTH WEST UK
Location: WESTON SUPER MARE
Occupation: MERCEDES SALESMAN
Interests: POWER BOAT RACING
Boat name: BIG AIR
Boat make: PHANTOM 19
Engines: 200XS
Cruising area: BRISTOL CHANNEL
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: WESTON SUPER MARE
Posts: 792
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Event Licenses-Review Time ?
I have just recieved my full license but thought it worth a discussion about Event Licenses.I know there has been some discussion about this durring the closed season but I think with the declining entries that this year brings the fact you can only have two event licenses -first one with a self declaration and the second requiring a medical.I have two lines of thought here firstly do you really need a medical at all to race a boat I presume its to try and prevent things like heart attacks as this seems the focus on the doctors declaration, for example you can race in Motocross(Very Physical) and most off road events without one and this is on a closed circuit with potentially a bike careering off into the crowd this would be unlikely to happen in a boat race.How can you declare yourself fit to race in your first event but not the second ?.And secondly limiting it to two event licenses per year is in my view a big negative,take the successfull Rib event last year -20 plus entries(the bulk probably event licenses)with I believe the same plus additional events planned for this year is the event license limit not going to prevent expansion of this type of event ?Also previous License holders that can't commit to a full season are limited to one event licenses(No medical) or costs for a Medical (for second event license) or the full cost for a year license plus the medical.I feel there must be a simpler way of getting people out enjoying there boats and racing them.This is only my thoughts as a relative newbie but do feel this needs to be reviewed.Nic
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27-05-2010, 12:10 PM
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#2
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..
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,567
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Agree with you on this one Nic, dificult enough for the organisers to get entries as it is without spreading the few that are prepared to enter the basics across 8 - 10 possible races throughout the year
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27-05-2010, 01:33 PM
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#3
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Senior Member
Country: UK
Location: Devon
Occupation: Garage Proprietor
Interests: PowerBoat Racing
Boat name: If Only
Boat make: Bernico F3 OCR, Bernico Prototype Inboard, and some Ribs
Engines: Yamaha Pro V 115
Cruising area: UK, France
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Devon
Posts: 3,095
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Perfect timing !! I was just contemplating starting a survey to find out why people are so reluctant to race !! Is it Time, Money, Rules, etc.
Lets see if we can conduct a useful survey. If you want to add anything less public then email me chairman@ocrda.org and we will collate the reasons and see if we can make the required changes.
Nic has started with a very valid point although I believe you can have both Event Licenses on self declaration medicals but only one will be credited to your national licence.
Although it was agreed by ORC (Offshore Racing Commmittee) for the second time to have unlimited Event Licenses provided you had the full medical. Unfortunately this got lost in the RYA office somewhere.
Bob
__________________
If Only
National Outboard Immersed Propeller Mono Record 103mph
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27-05-2010, 02:03 PM
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#4
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Registered User
Country: U K
Location: Seend Wiltshire / New Forest
Occupation: sales - motor trade
Interests: boats/quads/shooting/horses
Boat make: revenger 25sc/extreme/cougar 21/mirror dinghy
Engines: mercruiser magnum/honda 150/red sails
Cruising area: solent / uk coast -poole mainly
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Seend Wiltshire / New Forest
Posts: 316
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Interesting post Nic I spoke to Jon at the RYA on Monday to clarify a few points with the view of competing in the cancer research race .I explained that I hadn't had a full licence in the last two years he asked for a CV which should be ok followed by a quick assessment (thought they would have records of licences issued ?) but the chap who wanted to nav for me (with thirty years boating - but not racing experience ) - the person who was going to pay for the weekend cannot easily obtain the event licence , and within the timescale .While I fully understand the reasoning behind it after the awfull accident last year it does make it harder to get new people into the sport and I don't get to race next weekend !
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The Edge
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27-05-2010, 11:03 PM
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#5
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Registered User
Country: SOUTH WEST UK
Location: WESTON SUPER MARE
Occupation: MERCEDES SALESMAN
Interests: POWER BOAT RACING
Boat name: BIG AIR
Boat make: PHANTOM 19
Engines: 200XS
Cruising area: BRISTOL CHANNEL
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: WESTON SUPER MARE
Posts: 792
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Hi Bob it was from one of your posts on here
It has been agreed by the Offshore Racing Committee to issue more than the previous 2 Event Licenses.
For this season after the initial two you will need a fully completed (by a doctor) medical form (available from club secretaries) and on production of this at race control you can continue to use unlimited licenses.
From 2010 you will only be able to have one license (with self decleration medical form) followed by as many as you want on production of a fully completed (by a doctor) medical form.
So now there are less excuses !!
Good Luck
Bob
Obviuosly rule was not brought in to force
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27-05-2010, 11:07 PM
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#6
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Senior Member
Country: UK
Location: Devon
Occupation: Garage Proprietor
Interests: PowerBoat Racing
Boat name: If Only
Boat make: Bernico F3 OCR, Bernico Prototype Inboard, and some Ribs
Engines: Yamaha Pro V 115
Cruising area: UK, France
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Devon
Posts: 3,095
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No!! The RYA back pedalled on that one !! It came up again the meeting before last and was passed unanimously !! then without letting us know the RYA changed their minds again. Still dont know why !!
__________________
If Only
National Outboard Immersed Propeller Mono Record 103mph
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27-05-2010, 11:13 PM
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#7
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Registered User
Country: SOUTH WEST UK
Location: WESTON SUPER MARE
Occupation: MERCEDES SALESMAN
Interests: POWER BOAT RACING
Boat name: BIG AIR
Boat make: PHANTOM 19
Engines: 200XS
Cruising area: BRISTOL CHANNEL
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: WESTON SUPER MARE
Posts: 792
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the edge
Interesting post Nic I spoke to Jon at the RYA on Monday to clarify a few points with the view of competing in the cancer research race .I explained that I hadn't had a full licence in the last two years he asked for a CV which should be ok followed by a quick assessment (thought they would have records of licences issued ?) but the chap who wanted to nav for me (with thirty years boating - but not racing experience ) - the person who was going to pay for the weekend cannot easily obtain the event licence , and within the timescale .While I fully understand the reasoning behind it after the awfull accident last year it does make it harder to get new people into the sport and I don't get to race next weekend !
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I think you could still race at the Cancer,You should be able to carry out the assement/training at the event enabling you both to take out an event license
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27-05-2010, 11:30 PM
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#8
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Registered User
Country: SOUTH WEST UK
Location: WESTON SUPER MARE
Occupation: MERCEDES SALESMAN
Interests: POWER BOAT RACING
Boat name: BIG AIR
Boat make: PHANTOM 19
Engines: 200XS
Cruising area: BRISTOL CHANNEL
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: WESTON SUPER MARE
Posts: 792
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Another Thought
Being able to race with mutiple Event Licenses at least you can spread the cost ie PAY AS YOU GO,also saves the risk of paying for your full license and either blowing your engine or getting injured and potentially terminating your season having allready paid £360 odd pounds plus medical and presumably getting no refund.
I'd prefer to spread the costs even if it meant increased cost per event at least it might get some casual racers(like me last year) out racing even if its only the one or two events or more if they enjoy it.
Nic
I think the rules also need to be stabalised not constantly changing
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28-05-2010, 06:53 AM
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#9
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Aged Member
Country: UK
Location: HAMPSHIRE
Occupation: Safety Engineering
Boat name: Savannah
Boat make: Princess 415
Engines: Volvos
Cruising area: SOLENT
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: HAMPSHIRE
Posts: 779
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NIC SURRY
Being able to race with mutiple Event Licenses at least you can spread the cost ie PAY AS YOU GO,also saves the risk of paying for your full license and either blowing your engine or getting injured and potentially terminating your season having allready paid £360 odd pounds plus medical and presumably getting no refund.
I'd prefer to spread the costs even if it meant increased cost per event at least it might get some casual racers(like me last year) out racing even if its only the one or two events or more if they enjoy it.
Nic
I think the rules also need to be stabalised not constantly changing
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Thats what we said.......but it was overturned by the Rya.
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Land was invented to give boats somewhere to visit
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28-05-2010, 08:13 AM
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#10
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Registered User
Country: UK
Location: Weston Super Mare
Occupation: Electrical Engineer
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Weston Super Mare
Posts: 6,351
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they are taking the micky!!! ski racing costs are £60 to join british water ski (£40 if you are in a club) plus £35 for your licence. To drive you still need an SBDA (ski boat driver award) approx £30 a theory test (free) and a medical every 2 years.
no wonder you dont get many racers if you got to spend nearly £500 before you start
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28-05-2010, 08:53 AM
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#11
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..
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,567
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Burty
= you got to spend nearly £500 before you start
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double that for me
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28-05-2010, 09:41 AM
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#12
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 49
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As I understand it the biggest problem at the moment is that the RYA have tied themselves to an expensive insurance policy which they then try to recoup through a small and ever decreasing amount of license holders and event organisers. There are also significant other costs of running the department that also need to be covered.
Cheaper insurance needs to be found / negotiated before significant reductions in the overall costs can be achieved.......I am advised that this is possible but has not been progressed by the RYA. Cost cutting in other ways also need to be found....all of which I am sure is possible with the overall resources available to the RYA as a whole and the correct management and organisation in place.
There are also the pressures from outside organisations (MAIB) for increased levels of controls on the issuing of licences and the confirmation of competence. These now necessary controls for confirmation of competence are in my opinion one off costs and effort which the details of should then be held on file and then we could have a pay per event system for National Racing introduced that had all the controls required but at a reduced cost payable by event. However this is only possible if the overiding cost pressures that the RYA are/have inflicted upon themselves are resolved.
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28-05-2010, 10:19 AM
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#13
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numbskull
Country: United Kingdom
Location: South
Occupation: none
Interests: none
Boat name: Leviathan
Boat make: Phantom 28
Cruising area: South Coast
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: South
Posts: 15,959
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DAVE
Thats what we said.......but it was overturned by the Rya.
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The 'RYA' being who? An organisation, or one person?
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"I Agree with everything you say really!" - John Cooke to Jon Fuller - 26-01-2013
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28-05-2010, 10:38 AM
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#14
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Senior Member
Country: UK
Location: Devon
Occupation: Garage Proprietor
Interests: PowerBoat Racing
Boat name: If Only
Boat make: Bernico F3 OCR, Bernico Prototype Inboard, and some Ribs
Engines: Yamaha Pro V 115
Cruising area: UK, France
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Devon
Posts: 3,095
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Burty
they are taking the micky!!! ski racing costs are £60 to join british water ski (£40 if you are in a club) plus £35 for your licence. To drive you still need an SBDA (ski boat driver award) approx £30 a theory test (free) and a medical every 2 years.
no wonder you dont get many racers if you got to spend nearly £500 before you start
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The main difference there is that you guys have to fully insure your boats for liability !! Our Liability insurance is covered by My Driving Licence, My co-drivers License and the event Insurance !!
Bob
__________________
If Only
National Outboard Immersed Propeller Mono Record 103mph
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28-05-2010, 10:49 AM
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#15
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Senior Member
Country: UK
Location: Devon
Occupation: Garage Proprietor
Interests: PowerBoat Racing
Boat name: If Only
Boat make: Bernico F3 OCR, Bernico Prototype Inboard, and some Ribs
Engines: Yamaha Pro V 115
Cruising area: UK, France
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Devon
Posts: 3,095
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SO!! Other than Licenses which we know to be a major issue is there any other reason that people are not racing !!
Bob
__________________
If Only
National Outboard Immersed Propeller Mono Record 103mph
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28-05-2010, 10:51 AM
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#16
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numbskull
Country: United Kingdom
Location: South
Occupation: none
Interests: none
Boat name: Leviathan
Boat make: Phantom 28
Cruising area: South Coast
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: South
Posts: 15,959
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Rule instability.
No one knows if they're having a shit or a haircut.
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"I Agree with everything you say really!" - John Cooke to Jon Fuller - 26-01-2013
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28-05-2010, 11:16 AM
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#17
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 49
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Allegedly........ a general level of ignorance combined with a self serving attitude including significant conflicts of interest and with a high level of deceit and downright lies from individuals in positions of authority who appear to be making it up as they go along may also be having some effect :-)
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28-05-2010, 12:56 PM
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#18
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Registered User
Country: UK
Location: Weston Super Mare
Occupation: Electrical Engineer
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Weston Super Mare
Posts: 6,351
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OCRDA
The main difference there is that you guys have to fully insure your boats for liability !! Our Liability insurance is covered by My Driving Licence, My co-drivers License and the event Insurance !!
Bob
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Ok, so why cant you do that then?? do you insure your boats anyway for theft, towing, use when not racing??
The race part of our boat insurance bacially doubles the policy amount but if you have an accident during a race then they still pay out 75% of the claim!!!!
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28-05-2010, 06:51 PM
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#19
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numbskull
Country: United Kingdom
Location: South
Occupation: none
Interests: none
Boat name: Leviathan
Boat make: Phantom 28
Cruising area: South Coast
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: South
Posts: 15,959
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PKJB
Allegedly........ a general level of ignorance combined with a self serving attitude including significant conflicts of interest and with a high level of deceit and downright lies from individuals in positions of authority who appear to be making it up as they go along may also be having some effect :-)
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Blimey!
__________________
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"I Agree with everything you say really!" - John Cooke to Jon Fuller - 26-01-2013
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28-05-2010, 06:52 PM
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#20
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Registered User
Country: UK
Location: West Sussex
Occupation: MD
Interests: boats
Boat make: new boat on way
Cruising area: uk
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: West Sussex
Posts: 279
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Hi Guys
If you really think that Powerboat Racing in the UK is run by the Committees - then dream on. Powerboat Racing in the UK is dictated by one person. You can spend hours discussing things and have as many committee meetings as you like - and you can all unanimously agree - but if it doesn't fit in with the JPs plans then it just won't happen. You must remember that the RYA is a totally commercial organisation. And the only thing that matters is that there departmental costs are covered by you guys. They are scared sh...less by the MAIB who if they got their way, would dress you all up in padded fluffy bunny outfits. The thing that needs to be understood is neither the RYA nor the MAIB have any statutory powers whatsoever in a Court of Law.
Regards
Gary Mancehster
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