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Old 20-01-2008, 04:52 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daze View Post
blufin, as like most it would be good to try a 200xs on the back of cougar 225 boat and have a go and race others to see what it would do, but and a big but, honda is the surport and a good surport to powerboat racing.
As a racer you chose your sport and make the best of the ruels set.
Nope agree fully Daze You choose your game and its as simple as that.
I just think it's such a shame that the whole fleet cannot race as one in a true powerboat festival regardless of loyalties, contracts and all the other crud. The impression given is that Honda distance themseleves from the rest of the classes thats all.
Is there something stopping an individaul trying a 200XS, one assumes you could do it & come out in IIIC with the bigger Cougar if it took your fancy just for the "Crack"
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Old 20-01-2008, 05:08 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BluFin View Post
Nope agree fully Daze You choose your game and its as simple as that.
I just think it's such a shame that the whole fleet cannot race as one in a true powerboat festival regardless of loyalties, contracts and all the other crud. The impression given is that Honda distance themseleves from the rest of the classes thats all.
Is there something stopping an individaul trying a 200XS, one assumes you could do it & come out in IIIC with the bigger Cougar if it took your fancy just for the "Crack"
have sat with interest and watched this thread develop, to welshman yes sara did drive the 150 well and to blu fin i think its not a case of honda racers distancing themselves from you but we are sick and tired of being slagged down by people that only watch from a distance. how other racers behave towards us was most apparent when we raced our 225 in an open race off of exmouth on new years day our boat went well and was leading comfortably we only pulled out as new steering was playing up did we get any recognition no just looks from afar
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Old 20-01-2008, 05:17 PM   #63
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More power to you I think it's good you come out and mix it with other classes & to do well.
It was the impression given, That may or may not be the case.
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Old 20-01-2008, 05:31 PM   #64
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in reply to other comments made on this thread, yes we all agree the 225 is a handful but take negotiator this boat goes well as this last season has proved we all must agree that this is a sport that does not get enough recognition and for sara to post these comments in a newspaper leaves me a little disappointed i have respect for what she has achieved but feel a little let down. we worked hard last year to try and make the boat right as verytricky puts it better to stab somebody in the front then the back well i have a pain just below my right shoulder blade
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Old 20-01-2008, 05:37 PM   #65
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in reply to other comments made on this thread, yes we all agree the 225 is a handful but take negotiator this boat goes well as this last season has proved we all must agree that this is a sport that does not get enough recognition and for sara to post these comments in a newspaper leaves me a little disappointed i have respect for what she has achieved but feel a little let down. we worked hard last year to try and make the boat right as verytricky puts it better to stab somebody in the front then the back well i have a pain just below my right shoulder blade
a little bit disapointed, pissed me right off, my mum read it, im not allowed 2 do it any more now its dangerous
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Old 20-01-2008, 05:39 PM   #66
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nice one kev
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Old 20-01-2008, 06:51 PM   #67
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I think I'm being quoted a little out of context.

My point, was to compare the light, small, powerful and fast 2 litre OCR class, which by default, is virtually 'one design', so conforms to the argument many put over for Honda, ie, 'they have to drive like that, because all the boats are the same', and i'm sure you'd agree, it all looks a little more in control, even with the wee stuffs in that clip.
I wasn't really comparing them to Honda 130 as far as performance, as there is no comparison. Mind you, the quote from Kevan C of OCR averaging 38mph, against Honda 130s 46mph just doesn't stack up to me, but hey, who cares.

Indeed, your hull is either an Extreme (mike ring design) or a modified extreme if it's a later one (moded by Cougar)

As far as the motors go in OCR (2 litre) 200hp, is 200hp, and a 225hp, is 225hp. the only advantage of the XR2 is it's light weight. the big honda is more powerfull, and probably has a wider torque curve.

Ian Sterling may be 87 years old, but he can certainly drive a boat.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Force View Post
I agree - from what I have seen of the 2 litre OCR boats they are very very quick, but a bit apples and oranges - are pumping out well over 200HP with 2 stroke tuned engine, with tuned props and weigh bugger all. We have to run at 1100KG's minimum and have a standard leisure spec engine with no changes - and standard s/s 3 blade prop that you are allowed to thin and cup slightly(and honda carry a jig to check it). My experience is similar to fourskins, in the rough we can have a good race with OCR 2 litre, in the calm we wave goodbye, and wave again about 1/2 an hour later when they come past again

You can't argue with the pedigree of the 130/150 boat - I believe its an extreme 21 hull - with a much bigger freeboard than the OCR boats hence why i think its a little bit better in the really big rough - when the OCR boats cant get all that power down. My other experience is that my boat tends to run a little bit slower in the calm, however I believe thats to do with the greater hull drag and engine torque curves ( a little bit of air gets you over the bump)

By the way - that Stirling Chap looks like an absolute legend - top vid!
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Old 20-01-2008, 07:07 PM   #68
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it was a lot rougher than your clip, i was there so that stacks with me and i am on about one race. any one know where shaun laptop finished overal in the round the island race in 2000 in a honda 130?
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Old 20-01-2008, 07:08 PM   #69
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I would tend to conclude from all the chats here and at other boating places the 225 Cougar does have stability issues in some form or another. In other formats of racing the breed improves with time & development but with the one class standard identical boat I don’t suppose anything could be done to address any issues without putting the existing boats to disadvantage or modify the entire existing fleet.

This is a failing of one class racing but as Daze put it quite correctly you know the rules when you choose to play the game.
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Old 20-01-2008, 07:12 PM   #70
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I would be interested to hear from anyone that has bolted a Honda 4 stroke onto a Phantom, Marshan, Ring etc. that had previous experience with running the hull with a 2 stroke.
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Old 20-01-2008, 07:37 PM   #71
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Honda 4 strokes used to be a nightmare to work on because all the bolts used to be steel and not stainless steel.
Have they changed yet??
Saying that they were ahead of the game with 4 stroke outboards at the time.
gaZ
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Old 20-01-2008, 07:42 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skull666 View Post
a little bit disapointed, pissed me right off, my mum read it, im not allowed 2 do it any more now its dangerous

Very good.
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Old 20-01-2008, 07:44 PM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ciao! View Post
I would be interested to hear from anyone that has bolted a Honda 4 stroke onto a Phantom, Marshan, Ring etc. that had previous experience with running the hull with a 2 stroke.
Neil has rigged his EVO ribs with all brands, Honda 225s, Mercs, and the Rudes.

I believe his quickest results were with the Rude 225 HO
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Old 20-01-2008, 07:57 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by Wild Thing View Post
I think the honda series makes great watching on TV, if it is allegedly so dangerous why do ITV back it every year?
I don't know for sure, but I would guess that Honda pay them to -- or at least foot the bill and provide a finished programme at zero cost . . .
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Old 20-01-2008, 08:11 PM   #75
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Arrow newyear day

Quote:
Originally Posted by delboy36 View Post
have sat with interest and watched this thread develop, to welshman yes sara did drive the 150 well and to blu fin i think its not a case of honda racers distancing themselves from you but we are sick and tired of being slagged down by people that only watch from a distance. how other racers behave towards us was most apparent when we raced our 225 in an open race off of exmouth on new years day our boat went well and was leading comfortably we only pulled out as new steering was playing up did we get any recognition no just looks from afar
This was a local club event,Club write up.
Exe Power Boat & Ski Club~~~;>
New Year’s Day 2008 Rally




It must be part of the genetic make-up of the club and certainly a tradition that with orders – “must be off the water by 1.30pm as dedicating two new trawlers at 1.30pm”, that the green flag went up at 13:26hrs. However a happy boating new year was well entered …

A dozen boats for the fray:

#2-Hallet Chevrolet V8 950hp Rob
#47- Buzzi Bullet 600hp Merc XS Drew/Ali
Phantom 28ft 400hp XS Merc Chris/Nick
#717- Bad Boy 21 Phantom Merc EFI 275hp Scott/Dan
#36 - Bubblin’ Hot Cyclone Merc EFI 275hp Rod/ Brad
#80 - Phantom 21 Merc EFI
#5 – Delmar Cougar Honda 225hp Justin Wilmer
Super & Bat Men Ribeye 225hp Yamaha Paul
Red Phantom/Barsch rib 200XS Paul/Guy
A9 – Bernico 130hp Yamaha Rob MacCarthy
A30 - Aquaholics 130hp Yamaha Stuart Williams
A19 – Why Knot? Jeremy Gibson

As Admiral Yamamoto once said
“Be wary of the quiet ones!”

Around Noonish the wind piped up to 14 knots from the south, bringing with it, some threatening black clouds. The ebb tide started to run out at a couple of knots and was flowing straight into the wind. A short chop was created and it got progressively bigger and nnnastier toward the far end of the course. Some survivors later reported, “ten foot swells”. Some added “very nasty chop on the swells”.
Other than using a temporary orange mark instead of Trinitas at the Dock turn, the course was the same as Boxing Day. But it wasn’t really the same ‘cos it was rougher. The rain held off. But some managed to get wet.
We and the large crowd of spectators on the seafront all had to wait for the lifeboat and the ferry to clear the course before running a very disciplined line abreast behind Ed Whitton’s Ribeye, flying the yellow flag. Once clear of Fort Point at the end of the Warren, the green flag went up and everybody was having a good time. Well maybe for some a short time; Rob Jenkins in his 100+mph Hallet found that stuffing wasn’t just for Christmas and after clearing the cobwebs out with a few greenies, that it was no time for an early bath but a very early retirement. The 95 mph Buzzi rib was in her element and was showing the smaller boats the way round. As Drew and Ali Langdon in the P1 SuperSport rib came into sight their bow was leaping mighty high, they swept round the tight Dock turn and there was only one more boat in sight. In fact for a whole minute there was only the one boat. Almost complete silence you could hear a pin drop…. Crikey can I believe my ears it was a Honda boat hanging it out like a goodun only 30 seconds behind Buzzi Bullet. Then another 30 seconds break before some noise of EFIs eating their hearts out! Further down the field after one good lap Rob MacCarthy (what nationality is his boat?) decided that hanging on and hangovers do not mix so he was next to exit. Then onto the second lap, the lead boat the Buzzi rib of Drew Langdon came back into sight, she seemed to be weaving, and she seemed to be slowing. She had a throttle butterfly linkage unlink, just after a big bang off a wave, so they were out. We all then beholding the wondrous surprising sight … Justin Wilmer in Delmar the 225 Honda boat showing the fleet the way round! Not only leading but also … still … half a minute ahead of the second boat (Bad Boy)!! Total silence! We were stunned and very impressed! At the end of lap 3 it was still the amazing Delmar now being harried by the bad starting Dodges who were now getting Chris’s Phantom 28 into her stride. But oh woe! And why?! … Delmar led to the Dock turn and did not turn!, she went straight on!, slowed and lit up her retirement strobe. We went over to investigate and the comment from Delmar was … “I don’t want to break the boat”. This driver obviously has a talent but he must learn that it is guaranteed that boats are sometimes stronger than people. It is very hard for a boat to win an Exe rally both on the water and on the secret performance index; Delmar was all set to take both legendry awards. What a pity, but nearly very well done. It was interesting to compare performances with Boxing Day, Aquaholics who pleased and impressed us all (including themselves) found it just too big and them too small. But all credit for keeping going and finishing. All credit to Batman and Superman who is really a secret estate agent in the Yamaha powered Ribeye. They ran round very consistently and with a bit more speed would have won the rally.
It is great to see the integration of the different offshore racing fleets. We had representations from P1, OCR (Offshore Circuit Racing), Ski racing, Honda and rib fleets. Do I fancy that the huge surge of ribs that were here between 2000 and 2004 has somewhat waned? Without a doubt if there is one hull that seems to be with us for eternity it must, most certainly be that Steve Baker creation, the Phantom.

Thanks to safety marshals Pete Cann, Tom Angel, Charles Swales, Mark Cockman, and others. Also the Start boat’s Ed Whitton and timekeeper Gill Williams.
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Old 20-01-2008, 08:16 PM   #76
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How many Honda 225 saddles have broken this year anyone?
As there was plenty last year,
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Old 20-01-2008, 09:51 PM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Fuller View Post
Neil has rigged his EVO ribs with all brands, Honda 225s, Mercs, and the Rudes.

I believe his quickest results were with the Rude 225 HO
Thank you for that!

How does Neil feel the handling of the boat changes - 2 stroke versus 4 stroke?
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Old 20-01-2008, 09:55 PM   #78
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The Delmar 225 Honda boat put in a good performance by the write up all power to them, but it's that Black & white flag that counts in the results.
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Old 20-01-2008, 10:22 PM   #79
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totally agree blu fin a little bit miffed in having to retire would like to do more meets like this as it is interesting to race against different classes
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Old 21-01-2008, 10:47 AM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony Crossley delmar raci View Post
Tricky you are bigist **** in powerboat raing to date. I think a lot of people will agree.
And a lot will not. And if you do not listen to the warnings you will loose your series. Stop being a ****, and learn from the mistakes of others and fix your series before you loose it.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony Crossley delmar raci View Post
Why can you leave honda racing alone, honde people dont slag of v24, what the point where does it get you......
Yes they do. Regularly. Specifically through email barrages that you got me involved in last year. Fired off by Shelly Jory I believe.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Scream-it.com View Post
In speed terms we did get 73.4 mph in Liverpool but then again the Mersey was running a bit ;-)
Running over 7mph....
The 225 cant get over 68 at the moment, this is proved each year at coniston, where the boat is setup and balanced just to do a fast km run, so I doubt you get anything like 65 in race trim.
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