RE-LAUNCH of CTC Race

[FLYING FISH]

Tim,here is the Biancaneve boat copied from an Italian book.It may have been called Snow White as well.Della Valle did have an ex-Black Tornado ciggy but I have not come across it called Inter Scavi.Goldfinger,Eraf,Alitalia Due and Ego were the other names it had/Marco will be on our tails to nail this one.Another can of worms to mess with!

[TimB-C]

Well done Graham That IS Snow White................I ran her with Alessandro Zodo in St Tropez opening round 88, only 2 boats finished, Rainbow won Statua at his best,I think it was rougher than Cowes 72 maybe i was getting older and the seas very short and no pattern. We had a fire and then tie bars went and Zodo kept trying to trim out instead of in..................bloody maniac
The ciggy is as you said and was originally VB's and we stripped her back and under about 11 layers came to the black and names on cockpit and found Don's scrawl on the bow VB 1 of 6 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[TimB-C]

P.S. Didn't you post a pic way back of the ciggy in her Imter Scavi colours we painted at Abatte's on Como???
Know Edward Fattorini took several of us testing when he was on hols in Tremezzo

[littlenige]

I think what Graham meant when he said how drole was How Very DARE you!

[FLYING FISH]

Tim,I just cannot find a record of a ciggy of that name.

Oh dear Nige,Jon must be creasing himself with the picture your`e painting.

[Black_Tornado]

Still we are with the CUVs of Della Valle.
I don't know if to the CTC of the 1985 Della Valle won with the 38' with the two Lambos or with the American V8s, because I don't have report of this race.
Someone of you should know it.
However the 38' now again in sale it never had the Lambos but only and exclusively the V8s.
Then the victories to the CTC could go down from 3 to 2, however not of certain 4 as boasted on that adv.

[Black_Tornado]

Originally Posted by TimB-C

P.S. Didn't you post a pic way back of the ciggy in her Imter Scavi colours we painted at Abatte's on Como???
Know Edward Fattorini took several of us testing when he was on hols in Tremezzo

Hi Tim,
here a pic of Imterscavi. It compete some Italian races in 1988.
It wasn't a ciggy but THE 36'!
Aronow built it for himself in 1970 and was the prototype of all the futures 36' then it changed mind and he sold it to Balestrieri that began to drive it in the 1971.

Black Tornado (1971-75)
Eraf (1975-1978 - winner of two Viareggio-Bastia-Viareggio editions beating for two time the new Cig. 35' American Eagle and Limit Up)
Goldfinger (1979-80)
Ego(1981 winner of the Viareggio-Bastia-Viareggio again with rough seas as in 1977)
Reporter(1986)
Imterscavi(1988)

[FLYING FISH]

I know you are suspicious of journalist`s reports Marco,but all my entry lists and reports of the Cowes 85 race indicate it was lambo powered,even noting he had changed from using his cruisemaster powered boat he used for the 84 race.I see you found Interscavi.No wonder I had not listed it,as it appears it never distinguished itself in the Italian league,so never got mentioned in dispatches.

[TimB-C]

Graham you are correct I think 88 was my worst year
Trying to run two teams at opposite sides of Italy at least I got Achilli going after adding an external fuel tank to lift her nose (this being down to here original design being for the big Isotta's not her relatively light Lambo's)
I would love to explain Imter but when she went she went but bad engines from 2 of Italy's leading lights !!!!!!!!!!!! let her down including four out of Viareggio (Marco will know ) with no head gaskets just expanding foam

[cfun]

Originally Posted by TimB-C

Graham you are correct I think 88 was my worst year
Trying to run two teams at opposite sides of Italy at least I got Achilli going after adding an external fuel tank to lift her nose (this being down to here original design being for the big Isotta's not her relatively light Lambo's)

Recall you pointing out Tim in another thread you got her up to 113mph with the mod enough to leave the mono CUV's way behind except perhaps in the very rough where they always excel, but back in 84/85 the CUV's still ruled the waves and were yet to be outdone by the emerging cat's
Do you have any photo's Tim of you and the boats you raced around 84-86 wondering if I ever met you?

Thought it may be interesting to try and draw some comparisons betwen the new and 84' Cinzano

Assumed rough spec's for 84 Cinzano and today's 2008 model

84 CUV ... 38' ... Perhaps around 4500-4700KG post race weigh-in? ... engines Cruise master 650-700hp each (not sure we would ever know the engines produced their stated 700hp, back in early 90's used to get a drag race guy to service my car V8 he pointed to a number of incidents were an offshore race engine was said to be x HP and when tested 90% of the time came up short) drives etc I cant remember what Merc unit was used back then
estimated speed ... 88-90mph

2008 CUV ... 38' ... perhaps around 43-4600KG post race weight weigh-in? ... engines Ilmore 645 HP each ... MK6 drives etc ... speed a guestimate at ... 80-84mph know doubt with further development more to come

So I believe the 84' was faster Della valle knew how to get the best out of his equipment back then ... Does any one concur or disagree on these comparison assumptions

[Black_Tornado]

Originally Posted by FLYING FISH

I know you are suspicious of journalist`s reports Marco,but all my entry lists and reports of the Cowes 85 race indicate it was lambo powered,even noting he had changed from using his cruisemaster powered boat he used for the 84 race.I see you found Interscavi.No wonder I had not listed it,as it appears it never distinguished itself in the Italian league,so never got mentioned in dispatches.

Then we must declassify the 38' ex Caldente victories from 4 to 2 like the force of hurricane Gustav.
I had seen in your list of mono CUV that you put Biancaneve/Imterscavi and I had not corrected you because I thought you had an info or photo that it showed this.
ABJ (another bloody journalist).
Fortunately "second hand" Zodo has driven only a cat CUV otherwise he would have complicated to me the already hard search in the CUV's bush.

[Jon Fuller]

The dry sump #6's on Tims CUV are less power hungry than the #3's, or more likely #4's that they'd have run mid 80's. I also suspect his Ilmore's claim of 645hp is far more accurate (and realistic) than the mid 80's claims.

My money would say Tim's 2008 set up would be more than a match for the 20+ year old clockwork once it's all set up & sorted.

[FLYING FISH]

Interesting to try and compare `cfun`, but youv`e got your work cut out trying to obtain accurate weight and power info from whatever sources.I know from making historical listings how variable info can be unfortunately.Then of course you have Della Valle`s throttleman who was probably twice the weight of the average crewman!

[Jon Fuller]

Originally Posted by FLYING FISH

Then of course you have Della Valle`s throttleman who was probably twice the weight of the average crewman!

Nothing wrong with that!

[Black_Tornado]

"The ciggy is as you said and was originally VB's and we stripped her back and under about 11 layers came to the black and names on cockpit and found Don's scrawl on the bow VB 1 of 6"

Tim,sorry but I always quarrel with mine repugnant English.
Can you explain better me speaking of that 36' of Abbate? Have you worked there above? What do you want to say with "Don's scrawl on the bow vb 1 of 6?"
What name was on the cockpit?
In my consignment of one year ago the boat didn't show any sign anymore apart the black....it was very hard to me recognize her.

[cfun]

Originally Posted by Jon Fuller

The dry sump #6's on Tims CUV are less power hungry than the #3's, or more likely #4's that they'd have run mid 80's. I also suspect his Ilmore's claim of 645hp is far more accurate (and realistic) than the mid 80's claims.

My money would say Tim's 2008 set up would be more than a match for the 20+ year old clockwork once it's all set up & sorted.

I had pondered what the difference in lost HP to the prop would be for either drive and had assumed the same Jon, plus I also again agree with the conclusion the engines today would have a more realistic power output and also torque would be much better today with a better spread over a wider range than on the old 80's set up, which makes the 2 boats power to weight almost identical I would say, which to me makes it even more incredible that I could be thinking that the 84' would show it's stern to today's vessel but so far I believe there is no evidence to suppose otherwise, and Della Valle's throttle man certainly had some weight behind him to press those throttle's through the dash
But like Flying Fish says very difficult to compare 100% due to 24 years having past but fun never the less

[TimB-C]

Originally Posted by Black_Tornado

"The ciggy is as you said and was originally VB's and we stripped her back and under about 11 layers came to the black and names on cockpit and found Don's scrawl on the bow VB 1 of 6"

Tim,sorry but I always quarrel with mine repugnant English.
Can you explain better me speaking of that 36' of Abbate? Have you worked there above? What do you want to say with "Don's scrawl on the bow vb 1 of 6?"
What name was on the cockpit?
In my consignment of one year ago the boat didn't show any sign anymore apart the black....it was very hard to me recognize her.

Dear God is that her?? is she still in Grandola? Is she repairable do you think??
As I said to you some time back great to put her back to 71 VB rig .
The 36' was AT Bruno's house on Como at Tremezzo and he sold her to my boss Franco Rosetti from Ravena and his company was/is? Imter Scavi.
The red you see we worked out was that of the red ERAF?
But base colour was Black and we found under many layer VB's name and that of Jack S and on the bow Don A's marking #1 0f 6

[Black_Tornado]

She is left as in the photo of side to the entry of the yards Primatist to Grandola, few kilometers from the border with Switzerland.
One year ago she was still under good conditions despite the total abandonment to the bad weather but the water continuous to stagnate on the bottom...
The red is that of the original bootstripe when Aronow built her and also the black.
They are part of to the gel coat.
The mark #1 of 6 is another confirmation that was the prototype of the 36' and that in 1970 already others 5 36' they had been ordered; those of Magoon, Hanks, Bonelli, Silvera and Wishnick probably.
Do you say to have seen the marks at the bow:inside?

[TimB-C]

I thought Silvera was 72???
VB had 2 remember one for him and one Francesco.........first race I think was S Africa??
Will contact Bruno...

[Black_Tornado]

Here the comparison between the time of the first launch in 1970 with the Aronow's mechanic Knocky House and Kiekhaefer on board they go out of the channel of the yards Cigarette for the open sea offshore Miami.
The other pic show the boat in hand of Balestrieri for the last victory in the last year: Bellaria Trophy in 1975.
Note the two fuel fillers behind the number on the deck. they was for two supplementary tanks for the Bahamas 500 and was the only 36' with them put on that position.
In the third pic the last race version in 1988 at the Genua race;in the foreground the wrecked MerC.